OneSoccer

[Metro]

14 hours ago, red card said:

I don’t have any numbers but I think soccer drives >50% of DAZN’s subs. You can get at least 8 NFL matches on tv per week and all playoffs are on tv. As of last season, TSN subscribers got Red Zone as a streaming option. So, DAZN is now only worthwhile for those who want guaranteed access to all the games of their favourite NFL team. In terms of quantity, soccer content dominates DAZN and is on 10 months of the year. They show 2 of the top 5 soccer media properties. 

As we saw with the Canadian women, doing well in big tourneys builds a fan base over time. Canada men will need to make the World Cup and then at least not underperform. Then, in the next 4 year cycle, more people will be subscribe to OneSoccer to watch Canada in the Gold Cup, maybe Nations League and some high profile friendlies. Then rinse and repeat every 4 years. That’s why not having this Gold Cup on tv isn’t an issue. Gold Cup has been on tv for 30 years and never moved the needle even with a win and a semi appearance. Canada World Cup success also won’t be enough for OneSoccer. The CPL interest needs to grow and they’ll probably need rights to a top 5 league.

We see this with the US men. Making World Cups built their fan base over time and then having a World Cup moment (US have had 4) accelerated the process. But based on tv ratings, most still only watch the US men during the World Cup and if they make the Gold Cup/Nations League final. The US women get 2/3x higher ratings for their friendlies but they have won some bigger things.

Ex World Cup and CL Final, being on tv isn’t also the be all anymore. As a US media observer recently noted, he sees quite a bit of young Americans wearing PSG and Dortmund jerseys. But this level of interest isn’t seen in ligue 1 or Bundesliga tv ratings. Instead, he believes it is people just interested in one high profile player via social media and/or playing them or team on EA FIFA. PSG is also marketing itself as a fashion brand. 

Great post!  I am currently having an ongoing debate with a very good friend of mine who believes the Gold Cup matches on One Soccer are a disaster for the popularity of the sport, where I have been saying it's not the end of the world for reasons mentioned in your post.  And as I understand it, One Soccer will not stand in the way if TSN wants to show the WCQ matches.  Everyone understands how important that is for exposure.

Just also wanted to add I also believe soccer drives DAZN subscriptions simply because NFL League Passes are still available on cable.  Also, many NFL fans are still critical of DAZN over the horrible way the NFL was launched on DAZN, even though the quality of service has vastly improved since then.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

12 minutes ago, Metro said:

One Soccer will not stand in the way if TSN wants to show the WCQ matches.  Everyone understands how important that is for exposure.

Not that simple.  To understand what is really happening you have to look at Mediapro's business strategy across the world.  Every jurisdiction they have entered using the following business model.  They outbid the incumbent broadcasters and then try to sell the rights back to those very incumbents for a profit.  In the meantime, they run their own subscription channel until they can reach a deal.  If that deal never materializes then it all blows up.  That's what happened in France where they outbid Canal+ for the rights and temporarily put the games on their own subscription channel "telefoot", just like they're doing here with Onesoccer.  Those were way bigger financial figures so Mediapro likely has a better stomach for losses here in Canada.  

Mediapro's end game here is not Onesoccer subscriptions.  It is to sell the rights back to TSN/Sportsnet for a price where they make a profit.  There are likely discussions going on in the background but most certainly at a price point TSN/Sportsnet have no stomach for.  The unfortunate knock on effect is TSN burying the existence of the CPL and refusing to acknowledge it whatsoever.

 

This is a good listen.  It is ostensibly about the French rights collapse but Murad Ahmed speaks extensively about Mediapro's business strategy in all jurisdictions. 

  

[Bison44]

i wonder what kind of a deal CBC had for CPL games??  I was hoping we would see that again this summer, get more exposure, bring in some more fans.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Not that simple.  To understand what is really happening you have to look at Mediapro's business strategy across the world.  Every jurisdiction they have entered using the following business model.  They outbid the incumbent broadcasters and then try to sell the rights back to those very incumbents for a profit.  In the meantime, they run their own subscription channel until they can reach a deal.  If that deal never materializes then it all blows up.  That's what happened in France where they outbid Canal+ for the rights and temporarily put the games on their own subscription channel "telefoot", just like they're doing here with Onesoccer.  Those were way bigger financial figures so Mediapro likely has a better stomach for losses here in Canada.  

Mediapro's end game here is not Onesoccer subscriptions.  It is to sell the rights back to TSN/Sportsnet for a price where they make a profit.  There are likely discussions going on in the background but most certainly at a price point TSN/Sportsnet have no stomach for.  The unfortunate knock on effect is TSN burying the existence of the CPL and refusing to acknowledge it whatsoever.

 

This is a good listen.  It is ostensibly about the French rights collapse but Murad Ahmed speaks extensively about Mediapro's business strategy in all jurisdictions. 

  

What you are calling their business model everywhere is Only true for France. You're trying to make a rule out of a single case. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What you are calling their business model everywhere is Only true for France. You're trying to make a rule out of a single case. 

Funny that you of all people would write that because Mediapro has had the most success with this strategy in Spain.  You might want to listen to the podcast first.

They only create a streaming service when they can't sell it back right away.  

Edited August 1, 2021 by CanadianSoccerFan

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

15 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Not that simple.  To understand what is really happening you have to look at Mediapro's business strategy across the world.  Every jurisdiction they have entered using the following business model...

What might be different about Canada is that the plan initially with CanPL appears to have been to do something like Onesoccer in house. There was plenty of rhetoric about a new way to consume domestic pro soccer before Mediapro entered the fray.

Beyond that was there ever much possibility they would receive an offer of a significant rights fee out of TSN or SN when start up pro soccer leagues or franchises/clubs in North America often have to pay initially to have their games carried on cable? There's a proven market for Ligue 1. There wasn't for CanPL.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

7 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What might be different about Canada is that the plan initially with CanPL appears to have been to do something like Onesoccer in house. There was plenty of rhetoric about a new way to consume domestic pro soccer before Mediapro entered the fray.

Beyond that was there ever much possibility they would receive an offer of a significant rights fee out of TSN or SN when start up pro soccer leagues or franchises/clubs in North America often have to pay initially to have their games carried on cable? There's a proven market for Ligue 1. There wasn't for CanPL.

I have no doubt that they were likely naive to the market realities.  An overseas company sees a wealthy G7 nation with an untapped passion for football and and a new league starting and thinks "wow, that's an opportunity!"

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Funny that you of all people would write that because Mediapro has had the most success with this strategy in Spain.  You might want to listen to the podcast first.

They only create a streaming service when they can't sell it back right away.  

It's far more complex with multiple permutations in Spain over many years. Media players changing. And changing ownership. Including partnering with your clients. And even when it went worse no streaming service was ever attempted.

The key in Spain is that any channel with football gets ratings and shares that can favour overall advertising revenue. The regional public TV stations used to buy one match a week just for that. TSN or any channel in Canada will never have such motivation. French league viewership is also weak in comparison. 

MediaPro clearly overbid in France, but Covid, including losing summer 2020 hype with the Euros, killed chance of survival. If they'd had to renegotiate at a 20% drop instead over over half they could have weathered the startup blues. 

[narduch]

I actually doubt TSN or Sportsnet make a play for the WCQ matches.

TSN will have tons of conflicts with CFL games.

And Sportsnet has Blue Jays and hockey 

Edited August 1, 2021 by narduch

[CanadianSoccerFan]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's far more complex with multiple permutations in Spain over many years. Media players changing. And changing ownership. Including partnering with your clients. And even when it went worse no streaming service was ever attempted.

The key in Spain is that any channel with football gets ratings and shares that can favour overall advertising revenue. The regional public TV stations used to buy one match a week just for that. TSN or any channel in Canada will never have such motivation. French league viewership is also weak in comparison. 

MediaPro clearly overbid in France, but Covid, including losing summer 2020 hype with the Euros, killed chance of survival. If they'd had to renegotiate at a 20% drop instead over over half they could have weathered the startup blues. 

You still don't get it.  The streaming service is not the strategy, it's a stop gap.  The strategy is to immediately flip the rights back to traditional broadcasters for an immediate profit.  That worked in Spain so a streaming service was not necessary.

Telefoot was only created in France because Mediapro couldn't get Canal+ to buy the rights back from them for a higher price.  Their whole business model is a bluff.  They don't want to hold the rights, they want to flip them.  That is a risky bluff that can blow up when called.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

You still don't get it.  The streaming service is not the strategy, it's a stop gap.  The strategy is to immediately flip the rights back to traditional broadcasters for an immediate profit.  That worked in Spain so a streaming service was not necessary.

Telefoot was only created in France because Mediapro couldn't get Canal+ to buy the rights back from them for a higher price.  Their whole business model is a bluff.  They don't want to hold the rights, they want to flip them.  That is a risky bluff that can blow up when called.

They never flipped rights to "traditional broadcasters" in Spain in this simplified way you describe it. First because the tradition was TVE, like the CBC. Or the public regional channels (Catalan, Basque, Madrid). Then Canal +, who only ever had selected matches, and not European. Bein is not traditional. The Movistar channels are new. 

As I commented the model you describe holds for France, I'd accept it was their intention for Italy. Spain is far more complex. 

I'm sure streaming in Canada is a test project. They use OneSoccer to learn inexpensively. I used to think they were copying DAZN to rival them, but now Movistar has just paid this latter so much to include their products in Movistar packages that DAZN seems to have renounced part of their streaming philosophy. DAZN subscribers until now mostly consisted of the massive motorcycle racing audience in Spain. 

If you want to properly describe Media Pro, they'll take a stab at anything, they don't have a single model. But it's always a catch 22 : if you make money streaming, you shouldn't betray subscribers by letting products be seen by nonsubscribers. Media Pro will look at the numbers and decide. 

[MtlMario]

On 7/27/2021 at 7:43 PM, CDNFootballer said:

 

 

I suggest picking up a Roku for $40 and you will not be disappointed, best experience for Onesoccer imo and tons of free content for live tv, movies, shows, documentary's and such.

Took your advice, had my daughter install it yesterday and so far so good. The only thing I noticed different is that they only show a 2 day schedule. Thank u thank u very much.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

Clearly not a fan of the Onesoccer approach. Suspect the way CSB was structured to boost a men's pro league that has only a marginal influence on the CMNT while a women's pro league was mentioned only as a vague future aspiration is going to surface as an issue:

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[longlugan]

21 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

Clearly not a fan of the Onesoccer approach. Suspect the way CSB was structured to boost a men's pro league that has only a marginal influence on the CMNT while a women's pro league was mentioned only as a vague future aspiration is going to surface as an issue:

 

Clearly speculation on your part...once again...blah blah blah. Ever entertain a new approach or are you just going to post the same shit endlessly? You are beyond predictable.

[ted]

Just because people want to jump on a bandwagon for a feel-good story about Canadian Women athletes does not make a Women's league a slam-dunk.

If viewership of special events like the Olympics or World Cup were accurate predictors of attendance at live soccer in Canada we would have two professional men's divisions and a women's league already. I seem to recall there were similar viewership numbers for the CWNT team at the last Olympics but interestingly the TV numbers from France 2019 were nowhere near the same. People want to watch Olympic contenders at the Olympics. They are far less enthusiastic about paying to watch anything else.
 

[Watchmen]

In the on going discussion of OneSoccer vs DAZN, James Sharman, Craig Forrest, and the Footy Podcast are moving to DAZN. 

 

[Aird25]

12 hours ago, longlugan said:

Clearly speculation on your part...once again...blah blah blah. Ever entertain a new approach or are you just going to post the same shit endlessly? You are beyond predictable.

He's done it for years. I've never seen anything like it

[Watchmen]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:12 PM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

Clearly not a fan of the Onesoccer approach. Suspect the way CSB was structured to boost a men's pro league that has only a marginal influence on the CMNT while a women's pro league was mentioned only as a vague future aspiration is going to surface as an issue:

 

I'd assume she's driving more at a desire for a WCPL or an NWSL team(s) in Canada, rather a comment on OneSoccer. 

[toontownman]

There needs to be long term vision and planning with a women's league. There are two very logical pieces on the table imo.

Starting a NWSL team in Canada, or two. 

The proposed D2 league that was going to have women's teams too. 

If we have both of the above that is a good primer to have clubs build infrastructure and basic following until a full blown women's CPL is financially possible. Once it is the NWSL teams could be in the CPL in addition to the D2 clubs and any new teams wanting to come in at that point like when the CPL started. 

We are talking 10 years though and I doubt NWSL is willing to be used like that and the CPL would have to match pay and club infrastructure to make it viable and worthwhile for the clubs. 

And apologies for veering away from the main topic, I was going to just start a thread on the topic but didn't know which forum to put it in.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

59 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'd assume she's driving more at a desire for a WCPL or an NWSL team(s) in Canada, rather a comment on OneSoccer. 

Think it's obvious she is talking about other CWNT games not being on mainstream cable.

[Watchmen]

19 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think it's obvious she is talking about other CWNT games not being on mainstream cable.

I do not think that's obvious at all, since games were not on cable all the time even before OneSoccer came along. 

The narrative from the women post tournament was that they'd like their own league/teams in Canada and now was the time to try and establish that.

[red card]

5 hours ago, ted said:

Just because people want to jump on a bandwagon for a feel-good story about Canadian Women athletes does not make a Women's league a slam-dunk.

If viewership of special events like the Olympics or World Cup were accurate predictors of attendance at live soccer in Canada we would have two professional men's divisions and a women's league already. I seem to recall there were similar viewership numbers for the CWNT team at the last Olympics but interestingly the TV numbers from France 2019 were nowhere near the same. People want to watch Olympic contenders at the Olympics. They are far less enthusiastic about paying to watch anything else.
 

On average 3.8 million watched Canada play the US in London 2012 semi. Now we have a peak audience of 4.4 million (average is likely below 3.8) watch the gold medal match. This shows the Canadian women's team is now a thing during Olympics & World Cup.

But in between, we aren't there yet. Since 2012, Canada had a home World Cup, won another bronze and played in another World Cup. Yet TSN dropped the rights to the national teams stand alone games prior to the 2019 World Cup, dropped rights to Concacaf Olympic/WC qualifiers and stopped showing NWSL. TSN's parent has stopped being a Canada Soccer sponsor. So, I assume their numbers are telling them, there wasn't enough interest to become a top 10 tv sports property.

As the US women have shown, it takes a generation to build enough interest to be considered a top 10 US tv sports property. It took them more than a few WC wins and gold medals. There has also been more than one iteration of a women's league. It was only last year that NWSL started getting respectable tv ratings. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by red card

[red card]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think it's obvious she is talking about other CWNT games not being on mainstream cable.

I'll listen to Labbe about goalkeeping but she is out of the loop in terms of Canadian sports media.

The ratings show people will watch in numbers the Canadian women's team if wrapped around the Olympics, World Cup & even u19 world championship. 

Playing in Concacaf qualifiers or stand alone friendlies, the Canadian women aren't ready for prime time. They also don't play enough and about 1/3 of their matches aren't literally in prime time.

Canada played Wales in a friendly on a April Friday morning/afternoon where OneSoccer provided a free youtube stream of the match. Total viewers were below 17k. Not enough for an ad supported tv sports network. It's also proven by TSN not showing half of their matches when they had the rights.

It takes time to move a non-top 10 sports property into the top 10 especially when they don't play a regular season type schedule. At least now they have arrived if playing well in 2 major tourneys. But everything else is about a decade away away from gaining traction - assuming they keep on performing well at the Olympics or World Cup. 

[JohnnyFranchise]

9 hours ago, ted said:

People want to watch Olympic contenders at the Olympics. They are far less enthusiastic about paying to watch anything else.

this is canadian sports fans in a nutshell. go nuts over a canadian contending in a big event (olympics, tennis grand slams, golf majors, etc, etc), but don't have a f*ck to give the rest of the time.

the sports lansdcape in this country is literally nhl hockey and a bunch of niche sports.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The demographics and culture of Canada are changing over time so that is nothing like as accurate as it was 50 years ago when the CBC could still be used to shape sporting preferences and soccer was being marginalized into a first generation immigrant ghetto.

Women's soccer front and centre in prime time is the sports media dinosaur's worst nighmare realized for much the same culture war reasons that Megan Rapinoe isn't viewed favourably by Donald Trump. They would sooner go back to an era where Don Cherry's Grapevine could be shown on repeat 24/7.

An NWSL team in the GTA would probably do OK as a long term investment and certain CWNT games probably could start to generate significant ratings somewhere other than Onesoccer but there are plenty of influential people who still want to see pro soccer fail in Canada and will do nothing to help either of those things happen.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot