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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are aware that Mediapro grossly overbid for the CPL as well then? I think, just to be consistent, that you should look at their subscription numbers in Canada and ask whether we are worth it.

1) Both the CPL and Mediapro have refused to ever disclose what the actual numbers are, split between cash and services.

2) The amount they spent is still relatively small, compared to their Ligue 1 deal.

3) They're subscription numbers for the CPL are likely not worth it.

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Sorry, why are you posting these articles about the CPL (as in Caribbean Premier League - cricket)?  

I know everyone is kind of ticked off by the new Subcription fee for The Island Games. But you've gotta love what OneSoccer is doing here. The investment is real and meaningful. DAZN is a better value

My take on it (FWIW) is this: For years, we have wanted a decent quality, reliable stream to view Canadian games.  Yes, that was in the context of CMNT games, but now that we have our own league,

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1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

1) Both the CPL and Mediapro have refused to ever disclose what the actual numbers are, split between cash and services.

2) The amount they spent is still relatively small, compared to their Ligue 1 deal.

3) They're subscription numbers for the CPL are likely not worth it.

Both are private companies. They've no obligation to disclose those numbers.

Agree with points 2 and 3.

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@Canadian Soccer FanThanks for putting up the link.  It was very informative.  Listening to it, I don't think the CPL will have any problems with MediaPro.  There are a few differences that I noticed between Ligue 1's situation and here:

MediaPro have already shown their strategy works in Canada.  They have CBC on board, and got individual TV market deals with Shaw, CHCH, and other local networks for the Island Games.  They even got Fox in the US and broadcasters in places like India and South Africa to pay to watch us!  The CPL is easy to market, and is cheap.  In France, Canal+ and BeIn said no, so they don't have the market they were hoping for, or the TV partners.

France has a top 5 European league in a soccer mad country, while the CPL is a 2019 startup league who are trying to be noticed in a hockey mad country.  MediaPro is supposed to pay the French League 5 times as much this year as the CPL is getting in ten.  This would be more comparable to SportsNet not paying the NHL.

Also, the CPL was announced at least a year before the MediaPro deal was, which was only February 2019.  The show would have gone on with or without OneSoccer, and we haven't heard of MediaPro not paying CSB over the last two years.

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53 minutes ago, Trois Reds said:

@Canadian Soccer FanThanks for putting up the link.  It was very informative.  Listening to it, I don't think the CPL will have any problems with MediaPro.  There are a few differences that I noticed between Ligue 1's situation and here:

MediaPro have already shown their strategy works in Canada.  They have CBC on board, and got individual TV market deals with Shaw, CHCH, and other local networks for the Island Games.  They even got Fox in the US and broadcasters in places like India and South Africa to pay to watch us!  The CPL is easy to market, and is cheap.  In France, Canal+ and BeIn said no, so they don't have the market they were hoping for, or the TV partners.

France has a top 5 European league in a soccer mad country, while the CPL is a 2019 startup league who are trying to be noticed in a hockey mad country.  MediaPro is supposed to pay the French League 5 times as much this year as the CPL is getting in ten.  This would be more comparable to SportsNet not paying the NHL.

Also, the CPL was announced at least a year before the MediaPro deal was, which was only February 2019.  The show would have gone on with or without OneSoccer, and we haven't heard of MediaPro not paying CSB over the last two years.

It was an interesting listen, and sounds like they really misjudged the French marketplace. I'd actually say they might have here as well, though the risk is more minor. 

We actually don't know for sure that they're strategy works in Canada, as we don't know the value that they resold the rights for. I remember a significant number of people on this board talking about how "TSN or Sportsnet are going to have to PAY" to get the US vs Canada return fixture, and in the end no one did.

Having said that, the CPL was still a minor investment for them and we know that a portion of the payment is in services, not cash. Unless MediaPro goes bankrupt, I'm not sure I'd be too worried about the CPL side of things.

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1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

It was an interesting listen, and sounds like they really misjudged the French marketplace. I'd actually say they might have here as well, though the risk is more minor. 

We actually don't know for sure that they're strategy works in Canada, as we don't know the value that they resold the rights for. I remember a significant number of people on this board talking about how "TSN or Sportsnet are going to have to PAY" to get the US vs Canada return fixture, and in the end no one did.

Having said that, the CPL was still a minor investment for them and we know that a portion of the payment is in services, not cash. Unless MediaPro goes bankrupt, I'm not sure I'd be too worried about the CPL side of things.

This was my big takeaway.  It puts the TSN relationship in a new light.  If the end game is really to sell all of their rights back to a network like TSN for an inflated price then TSN's seemingly malicious refusal to acknowledge the CPL's existence can be understood through the lens of hostile negotiation.  

 

 

 

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On 11/26/2020 at 2:44 PM, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Listen to this to understand Mediapro's "strategy".  I fear this could end in tears here in Canada

Thanks, agree that it is rather interesting and the guest from the FT was very solid. 

A couple of things. First, that Mediapro did make their first payment (out of how many a year I don't know), so that alters the negotiation somewhat. Ligue 1 can't argue total bad faith on their part. Then, since you have other cases as mentioned of renegotiation for games cancelled during the pandemic, like in Italy with Sky, that sets a precedent for renegotiation. Now, it is a different type of non-compliance, as during Covid no games were delivered by leagues, and now they are, but that is another possible precedent for the Mediapro case regardless. 

I don't think the argument about not having fans affecting the product is well put forth on the part of Roures, I see it as a minor factor.

Second, I was surprised that he was almost arguing that the way rights buyers could lower costs was create a trust, and not bid against each other. Divvy up the spoils. Which would be a monopolistic practice, illegal in the EU, for a start. And exposing these rights buyers to foreign bidders and, as he mentioned but waved off, Amazon, Google--I think those are options that cannot be disregarded.

Third, about Mediapro selling back rights. Obviously if you have to set up your own tv channel from scratch, that is tough. And as we've seen with One Soccer, Mediapro is not that expert at delivering to the final viewer, they are better at being brokers. I am not saying an online platform is the same as a tv subscription package, but any time you are doing something from zero with less experience you are going to suffer, including in such a simple thing as product sales (I accept the actual broadcasts are professionally produced). 

More about reselling rights. As observed above, if TSN don't come along, or the CBC, or whoever, then it seems the Mediapro model is debliltated in Canada. It is not like CFL rights getting bought by a Mediapro-type company and being sold back to the former rights holders, as at least there the numbers are clear as is the market. One Soccer is making inroads, and the investment is not as high, but you can see the risk there.

As for France, there are a couple things about their product. First, football is much weaker comparatively there than in the big 4. In some parts of the country it is probably not even the #1 sport (rugby in the south-west). Few clubs are really major. And there is only one Paris team, only really one in the metropolitan area, which is ridiculous (London, obvious difference; but even Madrid region, much smaller, has 3 but sometimes up to 5 in top flight). Even in Austria or Scotland the capital or major city has competition. So the internal market is weaker. And the international market as well. If La Liga has struggled like hell for the last decade to raise its international value, even with the two best players of the past 12 years featuring, imagine France, they must be far behind. France does not even have an avid international emmigration, like Italy or Greece or Turkey, never mind British leagues.

4-One thing I wondered about, the question of the leagues negotiating for the clubs. This was not the model in Spain until recently, so yes, big clubs dissatisfied with league negotiations could go rogue, they've been there before. 

5-A European superleague: don't think it is going to happen, and I think he overstates the idea that Barça or Madrid are interested in it. The model for this is the basketball Euroleague, which is a rogue league that broke with FIBA Europe's offer and set up on its own. If you look at the current 18 Euroleague teams, half are also football teams. So these clubs see how they have raised the quality of play, and interest in tv audiences, for teams otherwise playing weak and relatively unknown clubs from their leagues. But there is no way that UEFA is going to let that happen, it won't go, and if you look at how they have raised prizes and payouts for Champions League it is clear they are aggressively defensive in ensuring that never happens.

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2 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

Interesting point in this article is that it seems as though Téléfoot, Mediaopro's dedicated channel for French football, will stand down. Hopefully the same won't be true for One Soccer. 

Well they don't own the rights to French football anymore so they had nothing to show. As of right now they still own the rights to CPL games.

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8 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Interestingly, the Lille game is still showing on the OneSoccer app for tomorrow.  

Who knows, they have 600,000 subscribers in France and perhaps have to fulfill their monthly deal still. So perhaps can still emit matches until someone else takes over.

I find it interesting that of a an aprox. 800 million euro deal, for 80% of the rights, Mediapro paid 172€ in August, and will pay 100 more compensation and to avoid litigation. So that is 272€, or 34% of  what they owed for the season. When they are just a third through.

Yes, the deal is set up for the rights holder to pay more than 60% before Xmas.

Without knowing how much was paid for the other 20% of the rights, Ligue 1 is out quite a bit, more than half, but not everything.

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2 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Not interested in the french league, A-league or K-league would be nice.

I'd love it if they could manage to show more (or all) Ligue 1 matches. The A-League and the Scottish Premiership would be my other top choices, though at least those are available on Youtube after the matches have ended. 

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