Restrictions on Supporters Group Activities

[ted]

So we have been trying to get answers on what will be allowed in the stadium on Sunday here in Victoria for our home opener.

Flags in the supporters section have been sorted, but smoke is apparently the end of the frigging world:

From the secret CanPL handbook:
 

Quote

 

Smoke Discharge In CanPL Stadiums And Events

For CanPL pre and regular season Matches, there are two (2) permitted uses only for the discharge of smoke: a. Discharge is completely under the control of the home Club/CanPL stadium and approved by the local fire authority. b. Discharged by supporters in an area monitored by security and NOT in an area controlled by fans or supporters (approved by home Club/CanPL stadium and local fire authority).

Where the second option is utilized, a number of restrictions apply. Smoke must be:
i. purchased by the home Club.
ii. stored by the home Club.
iii. pre-approved by local fire authority.
iv. discharged by an individual who has been instructed by the home Club as to the process for discharge during the Match.

Each Club should have in place an agreement for the discharge/timing/frequency of smoke and any abuse of such agreement will result in the loss of smoke privileges.

There is NO circumstance allowing a fan/supporter to enter a CanPL stadium or Match in possession of pyrotechnics, smoke flares, fireworks, or other device used to discharge smoke.

Any person found entering a CanPL stadium in possession of prohibited smoke equipment or identified setting off any of the above-mentioned devices, will be banned from all Matches and events:
a. First offense: One (1) year ban.
b. Second offense: Lifetime ban.

The Home Club will also be subject to disciplinary sanction by Canada Soccer where pyrotechnic, smoke flare, firework, or other similar equipment is discharged in the spectator area.

 

Sounds like maybe something we should work on as a group under the ISC umbrella?

[Lord Bob]

1 hour ago, ted said:

b. Discharged by supporters in an area monitored by security and NOT in an area controlled by fans or supporters (approved by home Club/CanPL stadium and local fire authority).

What does that "NOT" mean? Like I can at least imagine a system of "the club is responsible for the pyro;" I don't agree with it but I understand it. But "an area monitored by security and not in an area controlled by fans or supporters" would be... the press box? The concourse?

Is this a reaction to the Ottawa pyro party do we reckon?

[ted]

Basically it means not in seating areas which in an English or stadium would mean the concourse but there are often weird spaces in the stadiums used for soccer in North America. 

As best we can tell, someone in the League office just started copying and pasting rules from MLS. Some of the other stuff we were sent literally had "MLS" as the governing body.

[DrFitzpatrick]

9 hours ago, ted said:

So we have been trying to get answers on what will be allowed in the stadium on Sunday here in Victoria for our home opener.

Flags in the supporters section have been sorted, but smoke is apparently the end of the frigging world:

From the secret CanPL handbook:
 

Sounds like maybe something we should work on as a group under the ISC umbrella?

Smoke is never a good idea.  Why would a home club allow that and put itself at risk of a lawsuit?  Didn’t TFC fans start a fire in an away stadium because of smoke?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, ted said:

Basically it means not in seating areas which in an English or stadium would mean the concourse but there are often weird spaces in the stadiums used for soccer in North America. 

As best we can tell, someone in the League office just started copying and pasting rules from MLS. Some of the other stuff we were sent literally had "MLS" as the governing body.

You really expected it to be different with CanPL? It's hard to overstate the level of panic that a scene like this invokes in the average Canadian soccer executive:

Good luck, by the looks of this:

https://pacificfc.canpl.ca/westhills-stadium-faqs

you are going to need it. Although a lot of that looks reasonable enough, almost the entire south end at BMO field could have been kicked out at some point back in 2007 for things like:

Throwing objects, of any kind, towards the field, players, and/or officials

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Alex D]

3 hours ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

Smoke is never a good idea.  Why would a home club allow that and put itself at risk of a lawsuit?  Didn’t TFC fans start a fire in an away stadium because of smoke?

Smoke is relatively harmless if handled correctly. Flares are a different story, and I don't know what the heck the inebriatti tried to use in Ottawa. 

[Zem]

7 hours ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

Smoke is never a good idea.  Why would a home club allow that and put itself at risk of a lawsuit?  Didn’t TFC fans start a fire in an away stadium because of smoke?

 

3 hours ago, Alex D said:

Smoke is relatively harmless if handled correctly. Flares are a different story, and I don't know what the heck the inebriatti tried to use in Ottawa. 

It was flares. The inebriatti threw one onto the field, which set the turf on fire, and then they accidentally set their own flags on fire.

Smoke canisters shouldn't be conflated with flares as they don't get remotely as hot (good ones have a moderator, which keeps it cool enough to be held in the hand indefinitely, and even with a cheap canister you'd have a hard time starting a fire even if you tried); at worst it's a bit annoying if it blows onto the field. But with proper use and coordination with the club, smoke is never a problem.

[ted]

We have successfully and without incident used smoke (not flares) for years with the Highlanders. We have "training" and proper disposal set up beforehand. It should not be an issue in a Supporters section.

 

[m-g-williams]

Could the new wooden stands (and associated fire-hazard risks) be a factor in why they're cracking down on smoke? I take your point re: proper use of the appropriate equipment, but I admit that my mind did wander back to the Lansdowne incident as well. 

[ted]

^ These are league restrictions. This is not about Pacific or our stadium in particular.

It is just the usual North American bullshit where people running stadiums and even teams (and their underwriters) have never experienced fan culture and have no idea how to handle anything other than sheep who sit passively in their seats. 

[DrFitzpatrick]

If it was my stadium I wouldn’t be risking having a bunch of drunken idiots handling anything flammable 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Maybe shouldn't have posted the Dinamo Zagreb clip above because the smoke that Ted is talking about is not the same as flares. The Canadian/North American cultural issue Ted is mentioning above is that the powers that be have a tendency to see "hooliganism" even when it simply isn't there and wind up alienating a lot of the people who are most passionate about soccer when they overreact on what should be relatively trivial issues.  

Edited April 26, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[ted]

52 minutes ago, Lofty said:

You should see what goes on in England! All football supporters are automatically hooligans and criminals and treated accordingly by the authorities. You can't get into an away end without being patted down. Absolutely shocking.

Oh believe me I know about that. I follow Football Supporters Federation on FB and often read When Saturday Comes.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Flares are banned by UEFA, and when they appear, clubs are fined. Obviously some ignore this, especially in Greece and Turkey, some Balkans countries. But I agree with the ban, although if I see a modest use by someone who seems like he knows what he is doing, in a supporters section, I do not get uptight about it.

What is even more amazing is you get flares inside for basketball matches in Greece and Turkey. They must be world experts in extracting fumes. And must not have any fire detection systems in place--or they turn them off!

I am against flares, and I have used them for work in the north and in BC forests (to scare wild animals, to signal locations in case someone is lost or hurt), so I know the difference between wanking off with something dangerous and using them for safety purposes. 

Smoke: well that is a different matter, unless you are blinding your own goalkeeper, which we have seen idiotically in some infamous North American cases.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

14 hours ago, Lofty said:

You should see what goes on in England! All football supporters are automatically hooligans and criminals and treated accordingly by the authorities. You can't get into an away end without being patted down. Absolutely shocking.

You can’t get into the home end at the Olympic stadium without being patted down. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

You can’t get into the home end at the Olympic stadium without being patted down. 

Every single person at Camp Nou is inspected and patted down if there is a jacket or full pockets, there are 2-3 security, including women, at every gate. I really dislike it but it is the way of the world. I have distinct memories of a person dying because a flare went awry at a Barcelona stadium.

I'm living in a city that has had terrorist attacks for decades, ETA then Al Qaeda variants (killing Canadians no less), but then the perpetrators say they wanted to something even bigger in a higher profile place. So we know what that means. 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[CDNFootballer]

FC Edmonton supporters used the harmless smoke "bombs" when the club was playing in the NASL.

Sad if they're not allowed in CPL stadiums IMHO.

Could have sworn there was orange smoke at yesterdays CPL founders match.

[matty]

re smoke: can't people like find some alternative why to be awesome fans? like the icelandic clap but better

[Pottsy3]

58 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

FC Edmonton supporters used the harmless smoke "bombs" when the club was playing in the NASL.

Sad if they're not allowed in CPL stadiums IMHO.

Could have sworn there was orange smoke at yesterdays CPL founders match.

I'm pretty sure the orange smoke wasn't a doing of the BSB, but of the CPL administration. It was during the opening ceremonies.

[Admin]

6 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

FC Edmonton supporters used the harmless smoke "bombs" when the club was playing in the NASL.

Sad if they're not allowed in CPL stadiums IMHO.

Could have sworn there was orange smoke at yesterdays CPL founders match.

And fireworks too... both were nothing to do with the supporters. 

Just the pre game show set up by the  CanPL

[ted]

And in the end the club provided the smoke bombs for us, escorted our members into the restricted area and we safely "popped smoke" before the game to the enjoyment of all.

There was however a hiccup. Someone who had come over from Vancouver did bring their own and  set it off They did exactly what the policy was supposed to prevent: threw it on the turf where it scorched the surface. Not one of our members, and the group they were with were told before the match that they should not be bringing it into the stadium.

[Lord Bob]

7 minutes ago, ted said:

There was however a hiccup. Someone who had come over from Vancouver did bring their own and  set it off They did exactly what the policy was supposed to prevent: threw it on the turf where it scorched the surface. Not one of our members, and the group they were with were told before the match that they should not be bringing it into the stadium.

Oh for fuck's sake.

[CDNFootballer]

6 hours ago, ted said:

There was however a hiccup. Someone who had come over from Vancouver did bring their own and  set it off They did exactly what the policy was supposed to prevent: threw it on the turf where it scorched the surface. Not one of our members, and the group they were with were told before the match that they should not be bringing it into the stadium.

Unfortunately there's always an idiot who does something stupid and the higher ups then usually over react and spoil the fun for all.

Edited April 29, 2019 by CDNFootballer

[DrFitzpatrick]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 9:17 AM, ted said:

And in the end the club provided the smoke bombs for us, escorted our members into the restricted area and we safely "popped smoke" before the game to the enjoyment of all.

There was however a hiccup. Someone who had come over from Vancouver did bring their own and  set it off They did exactly what the policy was supposed to prevent: threw it on the turf where it scorched the surface. Not one of our members, and the group they were with were told before the match that they should not be bringing it into the stadium.

I think the person was from Surrey.  That is the standard answer that us Vancouver folk give when local yahoos do stupid things.  And it is usually accurate.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

I think the person was from Surrey.  That is the standard answer that us Vancouver folk give when local yahoos do stupid things.  And it is usually accurate.

Careful, our greatest hope is to have a team in Surrey with a Surrey supporter group. 

If you are from Vancouver, then you can be extremely accurate commenting on anything that goes wrong at that club. And please not go to their games.