Jayden Nelson

[Bison44]

That USL-1 is low level ball though.  I like to see him and Priso, Rutty etc get games and stay match fit, but I question if playing teams like that is really going to help their development.  The keeper for Tormenta was a disaster all night and gifted Nelsen that second goal.  If they arent going to get minutes a loan to USL-C or CPL would do them better.  And please, when is Dunn coming back???  

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

That USL-1 is low level ball though.  I like to see him and Priso, Rutty etc get games and stay match fit, but I question if playing teams like that is really going to help their development.  The keeper for Tormenta was a disaster all night and gifted Nelsen that second goal.  If they arent going to get minutes a loan to USL-C or CPL would do them better.  And please, when is Dunn coming back???  

It's one thing to want Nelsen and others to get loaned to CPL teams for the Canadian factor, but I am not sure playing wise it's going to be a dramatic improvement over USL-1.

[Stoppage Time]

17 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It's one thing to want Nelsen and others to get loaned to CPL teams for the Canadian factor, but I am not sure playing wise it's going to be a dramatic improvement over USL-1.

Not having watched USL-1 except for highlights, I would assume that CPL is a significantly higher standard given that USL-1 is tier three in the USA. I wonder how TFC2 would fare in the CPL. I think that they would have a tough time. Certain individual players would be fine, but I really wonder if the team could compete overall.

What say you, analysts?

[Corazon]

58 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Not having watched USL-1 except for highlights, I would assume that CPL is a significantly higher standard given that USL-1 is tier three in the USA. I wonder how TFC2 would fare in the CPL. I think that they would have a tough time. Certain individual players would be fine, but I really wonder if the team could compete overall.

What say you, analysts?

I am no expert but from what I have watched, the USL-1 is likely slightly lower than CPL just as the USL Championship is better than the CPL.  Players like Nelson, Priso, JMR and Singh are all playing at too low of a level in my opinion.  They should be playing in USL Championship with Peruzza.  If you watch those 4 players with TFC II, they are already much better than most of their teammates.  TFC II would be near the bottom of CPL as they are in their current league.  Luke Singh has shown that he can at least hold his own at the MLS level and yet the TFC II usually allow multiple goals a game.  It shows the level around these fringe players are quite weak.

[SoccMan]

CPL is definitely a higher standard than USL 1 , CPL is pretty close to USL  Championship, and yes would like to see a Nelson in the CPL but not with York United unless they get rid of Brennan who in my opinion needs to go if York United wants to become a contender in the CPL .

[CanadaSantos]

23 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I am no expert but from what I have watched, the USL-1 is likely slightly lower than CPL just as the USL Championship is better than the CPL.  Players like Nelson, Priso, JMR and Singh are all playing at too low of a level in my opinion.  They should be playing in USL Championship with Peruzza.  If you watch those 4 players with TFC II, they are already much better than most of their teammates.  TFC II would be near the bottom of CPL as they are in their current league.  Luke Singh has shown that he can at least hold his own at the MLS level and yet the TFC II usually allow multiple goals a game.  It shows the level around these fringe players are quite weak.

maybe it's just me but i dont think singh has proven anything yet at any level. In MLS he's actually been exposed several times in a few appearances and he hasn't exactly looked all the great for TFC II as well imo. Just look at the goal they conceded yesterday, who in the world was Singh marking in that throw in? i put that goal on him. He needs to show up at that level first before i can trust seeing him in mls again.

 

As for Nelson, he's looked great and should be playing in a higher level. JMR i think right now is at this level, he's played just alright imo, does a lot of safe things well but need to see more from him in the final third.

[Colliedor]

Compared to Nelson's first run in USL1 2 years ago, he is looking much better this time around. So that shows signs that he is improving. A loan to CPL wouldn't be the worst thing though, as long as he's playing.

 

Rutty didn't do to much last night, but to be fair he was playing on the left. He rarely does that. He seems much more comfortable on the right.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Stoppage Time said:

Not having watched USL-1 except for highlights, I would assume that CPL is a significantly higher standard given that USL-1 is tier three in the USA. I wonder how TFC2 would fare in the CPL. I think that they would have a tough time. Certain individual players would be fine, but I really wonder if the team could compete overall.

What say you, analysts?

I think the gulf between CPL and MLS is bigger than CPL and USL-1.

CPL is probably a better level for them, but in my opinion they all should be playing MLS.

I just disagree the CPL would do them wonders compared to USL-1. If we want them to grow they need to be in MLS.

Or at least they need to be at a level between CPL and MLS. I don't know if that's USL-Championship. It may be.

I don't want this to sound like I am shitting on the CPL, because I am not. It's a great league. We just haven't seen many examples yet of exported players thriving at better levels. Waterman, who I like, is sort of the flag bearer, and he's in and out of the Montreal starting 11. Tyler Pasher meanwhile went into the Houston starting 11 right away and basically stuck there, injuries aside. Can't draw too much from that, but it makes you wonder.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I think the gulf between CPL and MLS is bigger than CPL and USL-1.

CPL is probably a better level for them, but in my opinion they all should be playing MLS.

I just disagree the CPL would do them wonders compared to USL-1. If we want them to grow they need to be in MLS.

Or at least they need to be at a level between CPL and MLS. I don't know if that's USL-Championship. It may be.

I don't want this to sound like I am shitting on the CPL, because I am not. It's a great league. We just haven't seen many examples yet of exported players thriving at better levels. Waterman, who I like, is sort of the flag bearer, and he's in and out of the Montreal starting 11. Tyler Pasher meanwhile went into the Houston starting 11 right away and basically stuck there, injuries aside. Can't draw too much from that, but it makes you wonder.

Pasher isn't a great example. If I'm not mistaken he spent 6 years in USL before getting his MLS break this year. That's 4 years longer than CPL has existed. If it takes USL 6 years to turn an MLS prospect into an MLS player, then how can we determine that CPL has failed at that?

From what I have seen of Nelson and Rutty (which is only their MLS appearances, I haven't watched any TFC II games) they don't seem to be ready for MLS just yet. At their age though improvement can come quick so maybe they will be good enough before the season is done. They didn't seem terrible for TFC, just ineffective/uninspiring. That's my opinion anyways.

[Ansem]

This shouldn't be about USL vs CPL but why the F talented youngsters aren't on the bench at the very least and getting MLS minutes?

You might as well with the current state of the club. 

[Corazon]

16 hours ago, Ansem said:

This shouldn't be about USL vs CPL but why the F talented youngsters aren't on the bench at the very least and getting MLS minutes?

You might as well with the current state of the club. 

I agree.  If we're going to lose, I would rather them lose with Canadian's playing.  It was one thing to argue if the young Canadians should be playing when Toronto FC had a championship quality team but now it is just a joke.  You can argue that losing game after game can be detrimental to their self esteem or development but they're losing most games with TFC II anyways.

[Gian-Luca]

I think TFCII has won two games in a row (in large part down to the senior squad young guns), which is more than can be said for the senior squad at the moment.

[sebdeserio]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think TFCII has won two games in a row (in large part down to the senior squad young guns), which is more than can be said for the senior squad at the moment all season.

 

[Bison44]

56 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I agree.  If we're going to lose, I would rather them lose with Canadian's playing.  It was one thing to argue if the young Canadians should be playing when Toronto FC had a championship quality team but now it is just a joke.  You can argue that losing game after game can be detrimental to their self esteem or development but they're losing most games with TFC II anyways.

Where did all the guys pushing that garbage go eh??  "The TO fans will only support winners and if we "gift" minutes to young CDN we'll lose."  Seems to me that the gifting of minutes is going to some vets that cant cut it anymore and bench guys that never were very good.  Last year I thought Fraser should get the hell out, now I wonder if Okello and Nelsen shouldnt as well??  

[CanadaFan123]

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Where did all the guys pushing that garbage go eh??  "The TO fans will only support winners and if we "gift" minutes to young CDN we'll lose."  Seems to me that the gifting of minutes is going to some vets that cant cut it anymore and bench guys that never were very good.  Last year I thought Fraser should get the hell out, now I wonder if Okello and Nelsen shouldnt as well??  

What a move for Fraser that was. Leave TFC and go get actual minutes with the defending MLS Cup champs... absolute no brainer. 

[Bison44]

Chapman is getting starts in Miami too.  But this isnt just us picking on TFC, if these guys are not part of your plan, move them on, get something for them.  And bring in the pieces you want...I just hard to believe that Endoh, Zav and Mullins are guys you think have more to contribute now and in the future than Singh, Nelsen, Okello, Perruza etc.  

[costarg]

21 hours ago, CanadaSantos said:

maybe it's just me but i dont think singh has proven anything yet at any level. In MLS he's actually been exposed several times in a few appearances and he hasn't exactly looked all the great for TFC II as well imo.

OK, and which of TFC veteran and regular starters at CB's haven't been exposed several times???  

Singh could do just as well as some of the other clowns currently in the lineup, but at least you'd have tried to build for the future as opposed to trying to hang on to old glory while the ship goes down in flames. 

That's the frustrating part that people seem to be forgetting.  They're failing with the same starting crew going out there starting match after match with the same exact results.  Meanwhile they have these "future stars" they're raving about and yet don't seem to trust them to play them regularly enough.  Of course they'll make mistakes, they're young and learning.  But so are your regular starters, so why are they not trying something new and at least attempt to develop for the future.   

Then people wonder why we're thrilled when the youngsters get xfers to EU.  It's cause we know they'll at least get a look and play, which isn't the case here.  

 

[Colliedor]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

 

Singh could do just as well as some of the other clowns currently in the lineup

 

 

But he didn't. That's the problem. He was given the chance and looked just as bad. The other problem is that he plays LCB, which is Mavinga's spot. He's not going to win over Mavinga. The defenders have been bad in the end of the day but imo Singh has looked worse. I want the kids to play, but they still have to earn it in some way, and right now I don't think Singh is even doing that. Even his tfc2 performances look shaky.

 

Players like Nelson will do well on loan or at the very least, a bench role. But the only real youngster that's worthy for a starting spot imo is Priso. He's the one getting the short end of the stick right now.

 

[Bison44]

SIngh looked worse than ZAV...or Slomar??   Cripes even Mavinga has had several bad plays damn near every game, and he is supposedly a star and making a ton of cash.  Very frustrating...if SIngh is anywhere near Zavs level he should be getting those minutes.  WHat have you got to lose? Singh might get better, and prob will with more games, Zav is Zav, not getting better only getting a few more weeks closer to retirement.  The defense being a shambles isnt all on them, the 2 overpaid, overhyped vets in front of them most of the time are not doing them any favors.  Not a coincedence the defense looks better with Priso in there.  Cripes, we have great fullbacks, Lawerence is still capable and a good signing...with a DM in front that doesnt half ass it, it makes the CB job a bit easier and the whole unit will look better. 

Same thing for Nelsen. Does Endoh do anything nelsen cant at this point? Maybe...but will Endoh get any better??  Nelsen will with more reps and more confidence.  Why Endoh is getting garbage time minutes is beyond me.    I sure hope Nelsen to TFC2 is just a stop gap measure to get him in his groove with a nice run down there, then he comes back and we dont have to see Delgado or Endoh at the wing again this season.  And we dont need to see anymore of AURO in the midfield....its like Armas is going out of his way to bury the young players they were bragging up all spring.  2-3 losses and Armas threw all that "play the kids" horseshit out the window.  Thses f#ckin coaches can be ruthless with kids, but not with vets.  2 vets in the center of the park could use a benching, or call it a rest even.  One of them can play better than he has been, and you would expect more from the leader of the club.  

[RS]

4 hours ago, Corazon said:

It was one thing to argue if the young Canadians should be playing when Toronto FC had a championship quality team but now it is just a joke.

The team isn't a joke due to the quality of the players, though.

[gator]

It all started so promising in the CCL with the young Canadians getting some quality playing time and doing quite well, the team under Armos had a fresh look to it and were able to play a press quite well against top opponents, as it turns out the Canadians were played because of injuries and not choice and the team looks old and tired now! With Armos possibly on the hot seat you can bet he won't take chances playing young players, the problem with that is a lot of the older players are struggling and not offering much!

[RS]

6 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

2 vets in the center of the park could use a benching, or call it a rest even.

OR they can not be asked to play a system that doesn't suit them.

Armas' team doesn't really play with a midfield. It plays with midfielders, but they're often tasked with pressing up so high that a quick outlet ball by the opposition gives them acres of space to attack the back line.

Priso was the only one that Armas seemed to want/allow to sit and shield the back four, and it's no surprise that Bradley showed his best this year when paired with the youngster (side note: you can use his name, he's not going to attack you through your screen). Delgado isn't really that type of player, but he's also not built for whatever it is Armas is trying to accomplish. 

[reggietfc]

im not saying singh is the answer but man that 2 mil cb combo have been garbage including mavinga plus he is due to get injured again,singh is 2 footed,im sure he can play the right side,and priso should play instead of the great overrated delgado,

[Bison44]

Then thats on Armas then.  He has had time to make some moves, evaluate what he has, and if he is too chickenshit to sit vets that dont fit his system, or change his system to fit the guys he has now, then he deserves to get roasted.  Shouldnt a coach at this level be able to adapt a bit??  Or are we just seeing that this is more of the same old nepotism we have had for years here??  Curtis gets his guy whether he is capable or not.  Captain America and Bucky Barnes always play in the middle,  because thats just the way its always been.....ughhhhh.  

[Colliedor]

Thing is, I think Armas has tried to adapt. We don't play a crazy high pressing game anymore.

As for defenders, I say this is more on Curtis. It's been a issue for years and they haven't brought in anyone. Omar's performance last year and Mavinga's injury issues should've been clear warning signs for Curtis.