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Obinna

CPL U-20

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Cavalry FC and FC Edmonton will both be entering teams in the Alberta Major Soccer League this season.

Does anyone have info on whether other clubs are running U-20 teams? 

I would assume Valour would run a team in the MMSL and Wanderers in the NSSL.

I would have assumed Forge and York 9 would place teams in League 1 Ontario, but I figure that news would have already been released if that were the case.

Not sure about Pacific, but guessing they would put a team in whatever the highest level of soccer is on the Island..

At any rate, I am interested to see what the other clubs do. Perhaps this thread can be used to track any developments and results for CPL U-20 teams.

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I would guess that most teams wouldn't have those u20 teams this year. There is enough effort just to get the pro teams off the ground successfully never mind trying to set up other teams.FCE and Calgary already had been established.

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I think there is some consciousness among the teams not to step on the toes of already established clubs & operations.

Pacific FC has Victoria Highlanders FC (USL-2, PCSL, VISL-1 affiliate, VISL-2) over at Centennial Stadium. Although a partnership may never be official, there is likely a gentleman's agreement between the clubs that may prevent Pacific from launching their own U-20 in PCSL/VISL/etc.

Forge FC & York 9 FC both have, as you mentioned, a number of nearby L1O, L1O Reserves, and OPDL sides. They may benefit more from a variety of U-20/U-21 clubs pulling up the area than they would from having their own academy team at this point.

HFX Wanderers is the only club without any direct equivalents. Given the no-play agreement between themselves and youth clubs in NS, there may also be a no U-20 team agreement as well (so as not to disturb the existing system).

--

Cavalry FC's move to form their own U-20 in AMSL was somewhat surprising given their close relationship with the Foothills. Not sure how things really work between them.

FC Edmonton already had their academy, this just gives their team a better level of competition.

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17 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

I think there is some consciousness among the teams not to step on the toes of already established clubs & operations.

Pacific FC has Victoria Highlanders FC (USL-2, PCSL, VISL-1 affiliate, VISL-2) over at Centennial Stadium. Although a partnership may never be official, there is likely a gentleman's agreement between the clubs that may prevent Pacific from launching their own U-20 in PCSL/VISL/etc.

Forge FC & York 9 FC both have, as you mentioned, a number of nearby L1O, L1O Reserves, and OPDL sides. They may benefit more from a variety of U-20/U-21 clubs pulling up the area than they would from having their own academy team at this point.

HFX Wanderers is the only club without any direct equivalents. Given the no-play agreement between themselves and youth clubs in NS, there may also be a no U-20 team agreement as well (so as not to disturb the existing system).

--

Cavalry FC's move to form their own U-20 in AMSL was somewhat surprising given their close relationship with the Foothills. Not sure how things really work between them.

FC Edmonton already had their academy, this just gives their team a better level of competition.

Cavalry employ a bunch of the former foothills player and also their coach and they train indoors at their Fieldhouse. I think all of that is a matter of cavalry making use of the best resources available in Calgary, rather than some sort of "relationship" between the clubs.

I mean, there is naturally going to be a relationship developed as they use their facilities, sign their players, coach etc., but this is out of necessity I believe and it's a far cry from using foothills as some form of farm club. 

In that context, I don't think its surprising that Cavalry have a U-20 team. 

 

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@Rintaran by the way, Foothills runs their own reserve team in the premier division in cusa. I don't think it is specifically U-20, but it serves the same function. A number of PDL players played games with that team last season.

As an aside, I am surprised they don't enter their reserve team in AMSL. Perhaps because they don't want to commit to the travel and would rather keep their players in Calgary, plus the level is not so different between premier cusa and Amsl.

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9 hours ago, Rintaran said:

Pacific FC has Victoria Highlanders FC (USL-2, PCSL, VISL-1 affiliate, VISL-2) over at Centennial Stadium. Although a partnership may never be official, there is likely a gentleman's agreement between the clubs that may prevent Pacific from launching their own U-20 in PCSL/VISL/etc.

Isn't competition a huge component of development? Having more local kids receive high level training will only help improve the overall quality on the island, which will in turn help both senior squads. I really don't understand why either club would want to prevent the other from operating development squads. What's the incentive?

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11 hours ago, Obinna said:

Does anyone have info on whether other clubs are running U-20 teams? 

...

At any rate, I am interested to see what the other clubs do. Perhaps this thread can be used to track any developments and results for CPL U-20 teams.

Let's agree that there should be development rosters for CPL teams. If not this year, it should be a requirement for coming seasons. 

Cavalry FC's move to form their own U-20 in AMSL was somewhat surprising given their close relationship with the Foothills. Not sure how things really work between them.

The way I understood it, Foothills FC will effectively be the U23 team for Cavalry FC. Maybe not officially, but de facto. Having a U20 team doesn't bite it in any way. 

 

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13 hours ago, Rintaran said:

I think there is some consciousness among the teams not to step on the toes of already established clubs & operations.

Pacific FC has Victoria Highlanders FC (USL-2, PCSL, VISL-1 affiliate, VISL-2) over at Centennial Stadium. Although a partnership may never be official, there is likely a gentleman's agreement between the clubs that may prevent Pacific from launching their own U-20 in PCSL/VISL/etc.

Forge FC & York 9 FC both have, as you mentioned, a number of nearby L1O, L1O Reserves, and OPDL sides. They may benefit more from a variety of U-20/U-21 clubs pulling up the area than they would from having their own academy team at this point.

HFX Wanderers is the only club without any direct equivalents. Given the no-play agreement between themselves and youth clubs in NS, there may also be a no U-20 team agreement as well (so as not to disturb the existing system).

 --

Cavalry FC's move to form their own U-20 in AMSL was somewhat surprising given their close relationship with the Foothills. Not sure how things really work between them.

FC Edmonton already had their academy, this just gives their team a better level of competition.

I would be pretty disappointed with the NSSL if that were the case in Halifax. If the Wanderers started up a youth academy at the u14/u16 levels, I could see there being some animosity from the local clubs if they were simply poaching the best players without buildings partnerships, providing coaching education, etc. Once players age out of the provincial programs, there is a major drop off until AUS basically. This is the age where the majority of players drop out of the game all together. In the last few years there have been as few as 3 actives clubs at the u18 level (1 being from the South Shore). A Wanderers u20 team would virtually have no competition for players and it would incentivize players to continue pursuing a career in the sport. A u20/PDL level team is exactly what the area needs in my opinion without disrupting the system.

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8 hours ago, FC_Hali said:

I would be pretty disappointed with the NSSL if that were the case in Halifax. If the Wanderers started up a youth academy at the u14/u16 levels, I could see there being some animosity from the local clubs if they were simply poaching the best players without buildings partnerships, providing coaching education, etc. Once players age out of the provincial programs, there is a major drop off until AUS basically. This is the age where the majority of players drop out of the game all together. In the last few years there have been as few as 3 actives clubs at the u18 level (1 being from the South Shore). A Wanderers u20 team would virtually have no competition for players and it would incentivize players to continue pursuing a career in the sport. A u20/PDL level team is exactly what the area needs in my opinion without disrupting the system.

I should have been more clear. When I say NSSL, I am talking about senior soccer, not youth soccer.

Do you see an issue with a HFX Wanderers U-20 team in the NSSL senior league?

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21 hours ago, Obinna said:

I should have been more clear. When I say NSSL, I am talking about senior soccer, not youth soccer.

Do you see an issue with a HFX Wanderers U-20 team in the NSSL senior league?

I think a Wanderers u20 team would be a welcomed addition and refreshing for the league. Similar to how the NS Canada Games team competes for a season and-a-half prior to the Canada Games tournament. As mentioned, there's a petty large disconnect between the Senior Men's division and the youth leagues. For example the 4 main HRM clubs: Western Halifax Durty Nelly's, Halifax City, Suburban FC and United DFC are mainly university players or alumni (of which 90% I would say are +23). And at the senior level, players move freely from club to club every year, so I suspect there would be very little bitterness from the established clubs should they lose a small handful of players.

I haven't heard any rumblings for this upcoming season but I could definitely see the Wanderers entering a u20/u23/reserve in 2020. Hopefully they also have plans to start a youth academy too!

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I've heard Pacific has plans to get something going, but it probably won't happen until later in the year. They're focused on getting the first team up and running first. Hopefully they have a team competing in the next VISL season

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I guess it depends on the club infrastructure and investment dollars available. In lots of cases it makes sense to me to create more affiliation and crossover to help improve local grassroots and youth teams. Edmonton and Calgary already had academies so that's easy.

In most of these areas the clubs arent competing and impeding each others turf to raid youth talent. If you are a youth club in Nova Scotia (random example) you are surely looking to support wanderers and vice versa. 

Obviously creating the clubs own feeder team with it's own in house hand picked staff and control makes sense but to me for most of the clubs and certainly clubs coming in the future (hopefully saskatoon for example) it makes more sense not to reinvent the wheel if there are U20 teams present. Build the affiliation, relationships and partnerships to help grow and enhance what's already there. The rest can come later. 

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On 4/19/2019 at 11:47 AM, toontownman said:

I guess it depends on the club infrastructure and investment dollars available. In lots of cases it makes sense to me to create more affiliation and crossover to help improve local grassroots and youth teams. Edmonton and Calgary already had academies so that's easy.

In most of these areas the clubs arent competing and impeding each others turf to raid youth talent. If you are a youth club in Nova Scotia (random example) you are surely looking to support wanderers and vice versa. 

Obviously creating the clubs own feeder team with it's own in house hand picked staff and control makes sense but to me for most of the clubs and certainly clubs coming in the future (hopefully saskatoon for example) it makes more sense not to reinvent the wheel if there are U20 teams present. Build the affiliation, relationships and partnerships to help grow and enhance what's already there. The rest can come later. 

They did?

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37 minutes ago, Obinna said:

They did?

My bad. That was a big oversight. I presumed there was affiliation with Foothills and would essentially cherry pick from there. Lazy, inaccurate and churlish, my apologies. 

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4 minutes ago, toontownman said:

My bad. That was a big oversight. I presumed there was affiliation with Foothills and would essentially cherry pick from there. Lazy, inaccurate and churlish, my apologies. 

No worries. 

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I read somewhere something about a 2 way contract being offered to a player by FC Edmonton. It sounds like a contract that allows movement up and down from the U-20 team? Has anyone else heard anything about that?

I know the EPL has rules where players under 21 don't need to be registered for the league and don’t take up a “roster spot”. I am wondering if perhaps the CPL has some sort of similar rule for the U-20 reserve squads.

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7 minutes ago, BFBF said:

I read somewhere something about a 2 way contract being offered to a player by FC Edmonton. It sounds like a contract that allows movement up and down from the U-20 team? Has anyone else heard anything about that?

I know the EPL has rules where players under 21 don't need to be registered for the league and don’t take up a “roster spot”. I am wondering if perhaps the CPL has some sort of similar rule for the U-20 reserve squads.

I heard the same thing. I don't quite remember where I heard about it, or for which player, but I think it involved NASL FCE

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36 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

I heard the same thing. I don't quite remember where I heard about it, or for which player, but I think it involved NASL FCE

It was in the Matis Romero thread, by the timing of the quote it mentioned 2017, so FCE NASL.

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Posted (edited)

So we are 6 games into the 2019 Alberta Major Soccer League season.

Cavalry FC U20 sit in 9th, second from bottom on 6 points. They have 2 wins and 4 losses, with -8 goal difference.

FC Edmonton U20 sit in 5th, with a game in hand. 2 wins, 2 draws and a loss. +7 goal difference.

I quickly browsed through the rosters and didn't notice any Cavalry FC first team players, though I suspect the 18 year old who made his debut recently (I think against Pacific at Spruce Meadows) was there and I didn't notice, because I can't remember the kid's name to be honest.

Doe and Prince have been playing with the U-20 team. Doe has yet to score but Prince already has 3 goals. Again, there may be more first team players suiting up, but those are the ones I recognized.

I look forward to hearing news about the other CPL clubs launching 2nd teams. The longer they wait, the more catching up they'll have to do I suspect. GTA clubs are probably less concerned, as they can readily scout L1O and pluck talent from there.

Either way, this is a great thing for Alberta Soccer, as it provides a bridge for aspiring professionals. Make an AMSL team, show your talent, get recruited to an U-20 team and you may have just found yourself a backdoor into the CPL!

Edited by Obinna

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

So we are 6 games into the 2019 Alberta Major Soccer League season.

Cavalry FC U20 sit in 9th, second from bottom on 6 points. They have 2 wins and 4 losses, with -8 goal difference.

FC Edmonton U20 sit in 5th, with a game in hand. 2 wins, 2 draws and a loss. +7 goal difference.

I quickly browsed through the rosters and didn't notice any Cavalry FC first team players, though I suspect the 18 year old who made his debut recently (I think against Pacific at Spruce Meadows) was there and I didn't notice, because I can't remember the kid's name to be honest.

Doe and Prince have been playing with the U-20 team. Doe has yet to score but Prince already has 3 goals. Again, there may be more first team players suiting up, but those are the ones I recognized.

I look forward to hearing news about the other CPL clubs launching 2nd teams. The longer they wait, the more catching up they'll have to do I suspect. GTA clubs are probably less concerned, as they can readily scout L1O and pluck talent from there.

Either way, this is a great thing for Alberta Soccer, as it provides a bridge for aspiring professionals. Make an AMSL team, show your talent, get recruited to an U-20 team and you may have just found yourself a backdoor into the CPL!

Loturi is the Cavalry youth you're mentioning and it looks like he's dressed once for the U20 team. Looks like one more CPL guy with Edmontons U20 squad is Velado-Tsegaye who has one goal in two games. Abraham Dukuly is another interesting name who's played one game with the FCEU20's who has some NASL experience.

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So is the AMSL classified as a Regional Div 3, like L1O and PLSQ, or are there some factors preventing the league from categorizing itself as such?

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It's amateur so it's not D3 which is a professional level of sanctioning handled by the provincial associations.Although you can sign players on professional forms at D3 level I'm not sure how often that happens in practice in L1O where suburban youth clubs are usually keen to protect the NCAA eligibility of their players. Provincial amateur teams can play in the Challenge Cup if they win their provincial cup:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_Trophy

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Initial B said:

So is the AMSL classified as a Regional Div 3, like L1O and PLSQ, or are there some factors preventing the league from categorizing itself as such?

Yeah, like @Ozzie_the_parrot says, it's technically an amateur league. The champion advances to play the other provincial winners in the national Challenge Cup.  

I really don't understand why it hasn't evolved into a Regional Div 3 league yet like those in Ontario and Quebec. Anyone have any theories?

Most of the clubs are long-standing and you'd think it would be next in line to achieve D3 status (I don't think BC has a provincial league - their amateur champion comes via the BC Cup). On the other hand, it takes investment and someone with vision and wherewithal to make it happen. I think that's the missing piece. League 1 Ontario started with 10 teams (same as the AMSL at current) and was spawned with the backing of the Ontario Soccer Association - so perhaps the Alberta Soccer Association are the key...

Edited by Obinna

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13 hours ago, Obinna said:

Yeah, like @Ozzie_the_parrot says, it's technically an amateur league. The champion advances to play the other provincial winners in the national Challenge Cup.  

I really don't understand why it hasn't evolved into a Regional Div 3 league yet like those in Ontario and Quebec. Anyone have any theories?

Most of the clubs are long-standing and you'd think it would be next in line to achieve D3 status (I don't think BC has a provincial league - their amateur champion comes via the BC Cup). On the other hand, it takes investment and someone with vision and wherewithal to make it happen. I think that's the missing piece. League 1 Ontario started with 10 teams (same as the AMSL at current) and was spawned with the backing of the Ontario Soccer Association - so perhaps the Alberta Soccer Association are the key...

The amsl equivalent in bc would probably be the Pacific Coast soccer league. 

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