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Canada vs French Guiana Match Thread


mpg_29

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Osorio has had a tough career. He has had to constantly earn him minutes both with TFC and the Nats. He isn’t our most skilled midfielder, but I don’t understand how anyone could question his character. He works harder than almost anyone on the pitch. He doesn’t stand around waiting for the ball to come to him, he makes more runs than Larin does, and Larin is a striker. I don’t believe Osorio is a lock in our starting lineup, but a passion to be on the field isn’t a bad thing. Maybe his hissy fit was wrong, but give him a break, he doesn’t deserve anything extreme. All he needs is a talk with Herdman. 

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Not to pick on Gian-luca, but I was waiting for someone to propose they want more fire and passion from other players.  We cant have it both ways, Osorio is very upset at coming off, very unprofessional but at least he didnt have a confrontation with coaching staff.  .  We want Larin to have more passion, like the passion Cavallini shows, but think Henry/Will Johnson are too aggressive etc etc.   Sometimes you just have to make lemonade out of the lemons eh? These guys all have different personalities and maturity levels. As long as they still put team first, I'll wont be too upset.  

At TFC we put up with Giovinco acting like a spoiled brat many times, maybe thats where Osorio learned its ok to have a anger fit on the field. 

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But he's not Giovinco.. thats the point. I think the whole attitude thing is a bit over played for sure. I have no problem with people showing emotion. But its 4-1 against French Guiana my man. Its not 1 - 1 in the 60th minute against the US in the Gold Cup

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8 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

But he's not Giovinco.. thats the point. I think the whole attitude thing is a bit over played for sure. I have no problem with people showing emotion. But its 4-1 against French Guiana my man. Its not 1 - 1 in the 60th minute against the US in the Gold Cup

Haha funny 'cause then he probably won't start anyway and should be lucky to see the pitch. Lets face it competition on midfield and in attack is killing at the moment.  

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1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

He should have just been happy Arfield got hurt because if not he wouldnt even have got in the game, let alone start

These sweeping statements with no actual basis in reality slay me. Especially when they are used to slag a member of our national team.

Osorio has played in every game under Herdman so far. But suddenly it's Arfield's injury that not only gifted him a spot on the field, but also in the starting XI?

Whatever you say.

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26 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

But he's not Giovinco.. thats the point. I think the whole attitude thing is a bit over played for sure. I have no problem with people showing emotion. But its 4-1 against French Guiana my man. Its not 1 - 1 in the 60th minute against the US in the Gold Cup

I agree, and I dont like it.  I dont like players who do it.  To me it makes the player look selfish and immature.  But in the next breath guys are praising other players for being fiery and fierce.  I guess you have to take players, good points and bad.  I wont complain too loudly, but it makes me think less of the player when they throw immature, selfish tantrums.  

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4 hours ago, spitfire said:

I have deleted all my comments in this thread and would appreciate if anyone who  quoted me would too.

I Will take a step back from this site for a little while...

No please don't stop posting or being involved here :).

I admire your passion and pride for our country, and respect the support you show to your son (as a Father myself). In my opinion parents and positive role models can have a huge positive impact on someone's success.

As someone mentioned above, just avoid the very minor public criticism, that's all, but plz don't leave. :)

Cheers and safe travels back to Europe.

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1 hour ago, The Beaver said:

Just to be fair to Osorio, maybe he was upset with his own performance. (Seems unlikely, but we don't really know why he looked so pissy.) I tend to think he needs to grow up a bit more and become a proper professional but I will give him time to get there. But 100% Arfield wouldn't pull a hissy fit.

 

This ^ 100%. I honestly don't think, any other player on the field last night or any other one of our CMNT pulls a hissy fit. 

If anyone deserved a minor hissy fit, it would have been Cav sitting on a potential hat trick, when he likely would have had a few more chances.

What does Cav do? Looks slightly disappointed for 2 seconds, but immediately high fives a few teammates, salutes crowd, give props to Herdman and players on the bench, cely's with teammates and fans post game.

I'll support Osorio regardless but hopefully that can be addressed asap, it simply should not happen.

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1 hour ago, RS said:

Osorio has played in every game under Herdman so far. But suddenly it's Arfield's injury that not only gifted him a spot on the field, but also in the starting XI?

Yes, he's played in every single Herdman game but we've also played with 8 attackers in those games.

For Osorio to play against a top opponent one of Davies, David or Hoillet will have to sit.  I don't see that happening.

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

I agree, and I dont like it.  I dont like players who do it.  To me it makes the player look selfish and immature.  But in the next breath guys are praising other players for being fiery and fierce.  I guess you have to take players, good points and bad.  I wont complain too loudly, but it makes me think less of the player when they throw immature, selfish tantrums.  

There is a difference between being fiery and fierce for the team and being fiery and fierce because you are selfish. Maybe this is Herdman's first challenge as far as dealing with attitudes and personalities on the team. The question is how much of this is a momentary reaction and how much is it indicative of general attitude and what effect is it having on the team. When Osorio did this when Floro subbed him out while he was having a poor game, Floro did what most coaches would probably do (and for the most part are correct in doing) and stopped playing him even though we did not have enough quality in the midfield to replace him adequately. Now Osorio is probably not a starter if all of our players are available but is still likely good enough to start when someone is not available or we are playing against a team where his style is beneficial. It would still be a loss to not play him but not as big a loss as it was when Floro did that. It will be interesting to see if Herdman can get Osorio to change this behaviour or if not will continue to play him and try to minimize any negative effects on the team or stop calling him if it has a negative effect. On the other hand for all we know the other players may take it all in stride and say, "this guy is just too intense sometimes" and he might otherwise get along with everyone and there is no problem. But Floro thought it was a problem and if he is actually challenging the coaches authority and/or having a negative effect on other players then it is a problem.

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2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I agree, and I dont like it.  I dont like players who do it.  To me it makes the player look selfish and immature.  But in the next breath guys are praising other players for being fiery and fierce.  I guess you have to take players, good points and bad.  I wont complain too loudly, but it makes me think less of the player when they throw immature, selfish tantrums.  

Doesn’t do well either for the cohesion of the team. Oh so Oso is so good that no one should substitute him. When I saw his number in red on the board I was like “here we go” let’s see how he’ll react to this and sure enough...

btw I know this happened in the past but does anyone recall what game and the manager at the time?

edit. Disregard. I see Grizz answered the question. 

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This board has a large contingent of TFC fans who are Osorio apologists, as we can see here, making up all kinds of excuses for him and then, exagerrating his upside. And then, simply fabricating lies about his career (the massive interest of other clubs in him, with not one corroborated).

Then, I guess a few of us who pick a bit at him to compensate, at least that is what I think I do. Thing is, I think he is a fine player, he obviously can play beside guys on superior clubs and look perfectly in tune, as he can play beside Bradley at TFC and not be out of step. Also have to say, the way we were playing yesterday, we needed a stronger presence in the attacking mid, in the centre, to link up better up the middle (since the wings were doing fine).

I don't mind a guy wanting to play, and being passionate, I am all for it. But stomping off like that is not only a slight to the coach, it is ugly towards the guy coming on for you, and the guys on the bench who will not see the field. 

Since we saw similar, or related  problems, years ago with Floro, he obviously has not learnt some basic things at TFC. On that basis, I'd don't pander to the guy, and do not cut him any slack. No one else on the team right now is causing the sort of internal dissidence he is with that reaction. He is pointing the finger at himself and if Herdman decides the group dynamic has to be seamless, I am sure he would not doubt about finding another midfield combination. 

 

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Osorio is in my starting 11 when we play the very common 2 - 6 - 2 formation

 

These formations people are putting together are ridiculous. Even people in the media are doing it to shoe horn in this guy. Your playing Mexico and your gonna set up like this? Cmon.. build a 4 4 2

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Herdman will address this 1 on 1 with Osorio. He will not pull a Floro.  I am sure Oso realizes the quality depth we have at CM and that he has to get with the system or he will be left behind. That's all folks let's move on. We are all CMNT fans first ( I hope) and we want what's best for the team regardless who we support at club level..to do otherwise is high treason.

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5 hours ago, gator said:

I watched the match in the company of a TFC fan who bitched about almost everything  Osorio did which was way off base, I thought he played quite well as he usually does with his club team! Even a break out year being arguably TFC’s most consistent performer and winning the CCL Golden Boot hasn’t stopped the haterz who populate the stands at BMO!

I've been going to TFC games for a long time.  He has had a target on his back for years now and I never fully understood it.  Many of those naysayers have become silent after last season.  However, many are waiting for the first slip up to put him down again.

As a TFC fan and Osorio fan I stand with him.  I know him and he is incredibly passionate but it is still no excuse to act like that after a substitution.  We are becoming deep enough that little things like that may cost him an integral role in the squad.  

I also don't believe he is one of those players that "must" be in the game.  Players like Hoilett, Arfield, Davies & David to me are sure starters but he would be in that next level of players in my opinion.  One thing going for him is that he plays attacking mid which we are a little thin in comparison to our defensive mid position.  Like I've said in other posts if Davies & Hoilett are on the wings, might as well move David as attacking mid and sacrifice Osorio.

I respect that everyone is entitled to an opinion though.

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19 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

This board has a large contingent of TFC fans who are Osorio apologists, as we can see here, making up all kinds of excuses for him and then, exagerrating his upside. And then, simply fabricating lies about his career (the massive interest of other clubs in him, with not one corroborated).

Then, I guess a few of us who pick a bit at him to compensate, at least that is what I think I do. Thing is, I think he is a fine player, he obviously can play beside guys on superior clubs and look perfectly in tune, as he can play beside Bradley at TFC and not be out of step. Also have to say, the way we were playing yesterday, we needed a stronger presence in the attacking mid, in the centre, to link up better up the middle (since the wings were doing fine).

I don't mind a guy wanting to play, and being passionate, I am all for it. But stomping off like that is not only a slight to the coach, it is ugly towards the guy coming on for you, and the guys on the bench who will not see the field. 

Since we saw similar, or related  problems, years ago with Floro, he obviously has not learnt some basic things at TFC. On that basis, I'd don't pander to the guy, and do not cut him any slack. No one else on the team right now is causing the sort of internal dissidence he is with that reaction. He is pointing the finger at himself and if Herdman decides the group dynamic has to be seamless, I am sure he would not doubt about finding another midfield combination. 

 

I believe that you believe that, but to me it seems you exaggerate the Osorio apologist thing because of how you feel about Toronto. Making a mountain out of a molehill, so to speak.

So while you see it as compensation, it comes off to me (and others, no doubt) as overcompensation, if that makes sense.

The rest of your post I fully agree with.

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Really like Osorio's game and improvement over the past years but being a competitor doesn't explain away the reaction to being subbed.  Cost him years of involvement with the squad under Floro so you think he would have learned his lesson. Watching Giovinco act like a spoiled brat when subbed really sullied his image and my esteem for the guy.   Hope Oso doesn't become Gio 2.0.

I love guys who want to compete but when the coach says I need to do this and you are coming off - don't act like a 9 year old and you don't question the coaches decision.  Some of the youth today think they can do whatever they want and there are no consequences - like the keeper for Chelsea - that was ridiculous.  Osorio needs to play hard when he is on the field and walk off like a professional when the gaffer sends in someone else.  I love Oso and what he has become as a player but he needs to grow up and mature.   Hopefully he will get the chance to prove that he has improved not only as a player, but as a person.  But if I was Herdman I might send a message and nail him to the bench next game and then have a conversation as to why.

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Having re-watched the match this evening, the whole Osorio thing seems like it is being exaggerated, unless there is visual evidence to the contrary that someone can provide. The notion that he screamed in rage when he found out he was being subbed out and then stormed off to the dressing room in rage is not only not supported by the video evidence, it is actually contradicted by the video evidence. While he hardly looks overjoyed the moment he finds out he is being taken off, there isn't any temper tantrum caught by the cameras, which are on him the whole time. In a close up he looks towards the bench, points towards himself to acknowledge the sub and the points at the direction of the far sideline that he would exit from, seemingly because someone is directing him to do so (can't tell from the footage, either the Ref or Canada's coaching staff). The other players subbed off weren't told to do this. We forget that a few minutes before being taken off Osorio took a flying forearm to the back of the head and lay on the ground for a minute, so I am wondering if he thought he was (or simply was) being directed to go to the dressing room for concussion protocol reasons before being corrected to come back to the bench. 

In any event, the cameras show Osorio walking off the pitch very slowly on the sidelines and around the back of the FG touch line. Ironically he slows down even further to acknowledge the applause of the supporters, applauding them back (not sure if the guy who took to tweeting at Osorio that he should never don the Canadian jersey again after this match was one of them), then continues to walk slowly and solemnly behind the FG touch line (because the ball is in play in the FG end at this point the cameras are still in him). That is the "extent" of the alleged rage filled storming off the pitch that we can see on the camera. I suppose it is possible that the moment that the cameras stopped showing him walking off (which was almost minute) he suddenly turned into the Tazmanian Devil and started to scream in rage Giovinco-style  while sprinting like a madman, but in the absence of visual evidence to the contrary, I am more inclined to think that whatever was seen afterwards has been exaggerated. Moreover, it would not be surprising to me that if he showed signs of frustration, it would be from being subbed out of the game prematurely (59 min in)as a precautionary measure due to some French Guianese idiot delivering a flying forearm to the back of his head, rather than at his coach (the same coach who was calling Osorio by his nickname post-match). Again, if someone has visual evidence of him screaming "Don't make me angry Mr. Herdman. You wouldn't like me when I am angry" before turning into the Incredible Hulk, then fair enough but I won't exactly be holding my breath in expectation on that one.

As for the more important stuff - the game and our play - after a second view I think I am of the view that the goal against is more of Piette's fault than Borjan's. Originally I didn't like the pass Borjan gave to Piette but upon a second viewing I think Piette calls for the ball back from  Borjan in the first place, and so I have a bit more sympathy for Borjan, given that he gets a "hospital ball" back from the guy who asked for it in the first place. You can also see Henry pointing to ZBG, telling Sam to pass it to him instead, which he doesn't. A sloppy goal which I think comes from, in part, being too casual against an opponent we knew we could easily beat.

If Herman wasn't going to play Davies at left back then I do wonder if Kaye will continue to start there. He just made one poor defensive play which isn't bad for a guy playing out of position, but otherwise he was solid positionally and whipped in some pretty good crosses. I can see that move where he steps into Atiba's position as Atiba gets subbed off in favour of a more defensive left back during the Gold Cup. And we have a lot more in the way of central midfield options than left back after all - the two central midfielders were brought in to replace the two who didn't make the trip due to injury didn't play at all, just to underscore that point.

Speaking of ZBG, upon a second look he was more impressive than I thought to begin with (and I thought he played well to begin with). Between him and Godinho I feel a bit better about the depth at right back, which was the #1 depth problem last WCQ cycle (where we played Doneil Henry as part of Floro's six CB on the pitch at all times strategy).

 

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