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8 minutes ago, narduch said:

This team deserves to lose

Vanney has to go. How can you spend the most money for two years and be total trash? 

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They might as well send TFC2 to play these mid-summer games in Dallas (and it always seems to be in mid-summer when we play them there). They never come close to winning (which was true for the 2017 team which almost never lost) and they might as well rest all of their players with another game in Toronto on Wednesday.

Shaffelburg looking promising on a couple of runs was about the only positive, too bad most of his teammates refused to pass the ball to him, I guess they don't know who he is yet. At the end of year I think it is time to get rid of many of these American vets who are no longer up to it.

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I didn't even bother to waste my time watching against FCD. Turned out to be the right call.

If this team doesn't put together a winning streak and finish the season strong with Osorio, Bradley, Altidore, Pozuelo and Gonzalez, it's time for a change in coach. 

The stability since 2014 has been good for the club, but if you fail to make the playoffs with this group of players, something is seriously wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I didn't even bother to waste my time watching against FCD. Turned out to be the right call.

If this team doesn't put together a winning streak and finish the season strong with Osorio, Bradley, Altidore, Pozuelo and Gonzalez, it's time for a change in coach. 

The stability since 2014 has been good for the club, but if you fail to make the playoffs with this group of players, something is seriously wrong.

Vanney has to go imo. He cant adapt to his roster and keeps screaming tfc needs wide players well he loaned telfer who can clearly help the team. Isnt he a defensive coach? The cbs on the roster have as much talent as any in mls yet they suck. 

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1 hour ago, Mikmacdo said:

Vanney has to go imo. He cant adapt to his roster and keeps screaming tfc needs wide players well he loaned telfer who can clearly help the team. Isnt he a defensive coach? The cbs on the roster have as much talent as any in mls yet they suck. 

Yeah, the moment he started with all this wide player talk I had a bad feeling. 

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15 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

Vanney has to go imo. He cant adapt to his roster and keeps screaming tfc needs wide players well he loaned telfer who can clearly help the team. Isnt he a defensive coach? The cbs on the roster have as much talent as any in mls yet they suck. 

His tactics have become stale and predictable. Most of the other have figured out his systems and play to couteract them. Plus, it seems to me that he has lost his control over the majority of the players.

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The entire front office needs to go.

I'm tired of supporting over-payed **** Americans.

I don't think they are doing a good enough job developing young Canadian players and turning them into first team players.

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Well I guess we can’t accuse Vanney of not being willing to try something different now - TFC going with a striker-less starting line up against Atlanta of all teams. 3 strikers on the bench while Endoh and Shaffelburg get the start up front. Julian Dunn makes the bench for the first time. 

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BeIN Sports is showing the Toronto-Atlanta match live in Australia. They've picked up the TSN feed. I'm loving me a bit of original CSL nostalgia with Vic Rauter on the play-by-play. The Scottish fella on colour is a bag of shite compared to the late, great Graham Leggett, though.

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Shaffelburg sets up two goals for TFC in the first half although he is shafted out of being credited with an assist on the first one. Two bad that VAR and Ciman have set up two goals for Atlanta in the same half. 

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7 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Shaffelburg sets up two goals for TFC in the first half although he is shafted out of being credited with an assist on the first one. Two bad that VAR and Ciman have set up two goals for Atlanta in the same half. 

Are you suggesting that 1)Pozuelo shouldn't have been called for handball for the first goal, whether in real time or through VAR, and 2)Lareya should be absolved of any blame for the second?

I think it was a stonewall penalty on the idiotic move by Pozuelo leading to the first, and the whole Toronto backline was a clown show for the second, Ciman included.

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Posted (edited)

And now, TFC get the win because Laryea stubbed his toe in the Atlanta box and the ref gave a pen.

Or, maybe not...

Then, again...

What a **** show from both teams, and the officials.

Edited by SthMelbRed

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Are you suggesting that 1)Pozuelo shouldn't have been called for handball for the first goal, whether in real time or through VAR, and 2)Lareya should be absolved of any blame for the second?

1. No, I was stating that VAR gave Atlanta a PK. I was making my post at half time while sitting in the stands at BMO Field, which makes me and the other 25K people there less informed that whatever was being shown on television. Because the biggest problem with VAR use in MLS is that the paying customers have no idea what is going on, what play is being reviewed and don't get to see any replays on the screen. I haven't yet had a chance to watch the highlights having just got back home so I wasn't commenting on the call either way. The frustration was that it was the 3rd VAR PK against TFC in the previous two home games and that was before I knew that they would get a fourth against them after the game was over - or at least after everyone in the stadium thought it was over, including the people setting off the fireworks. Each time it's the same thing, the paying customers are the ones left in the dark. I understand with the WWC that this is not the case, those in the stands are better informed at what is happening.

If MLS fans are going to be better off/more informed about what is going on by sitting at home and watching it on tv rather than paying customers are actually doing, MLS is going to be encouraging people to stay home.

2. I was blaming Ciman first and foremost because he is to blame first and foremost. He gave the ball away carelessly under no pressure whatsoever to give Atlanta possession of the ball in the first and then let the Atlanta attacker get past him and to the by-line far too easily - like ridiculously easily. If that doesn't happen then Laryea doesn't have to come across to make a desperation sliding clearance in front of the goal (although why he should be blamed for trying to save Ciman's ass on the play is currently beyond me) which I believe bounced off Fraser accidentally into Gressel's path.

Tonight was actually a very encouraging match not just for TFC fans but for Canadian soccer fans as Shaffelberg, while looking a bit naive at times, mostly looked extremely promising. The guy set up two goals and set up Pozuelo for a third which he ought to have put away long before the PK at the end.

Edited by Gian-Luca

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12 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

1. No, I was stating that VAR gave Atlanta a PK. I was making my post at half time while sitting in the stands at BMO Field, which makes me and the other 25K people there less informed that whatever was being shown on television. Because the biggest problem with VAR use in MLS is that the paying customers have no idea what is going on, what play is being reviewed and don't get to see any replays on the screen. I haven't yet had a chance to watch the highlights having just got back home so I wasn't commenting on the call either way. The frustration was that it was the 3rd VAR PK against TFC in the previous two home games and that was before I knew that they would get a fourth against them after the game was over - or at least after everyone in the stadium thought it was over, including the people setting off the fireworks. Each time it's the same thing, the paying customers are the ones left in the dark. I understand with the WWC that this is not the case, those in the stands are better informed at what is happening.

If MLS fans are going to be better off/more informed about what is going on by sitting at home and watching it on tv rather than paying customers are actually doing, MLS is going to be encouraging people to stay home.

2. I was blaming Ciman first and foremost because he is to blame first and foremost. He gave the ball away carelessly under no pressure whatsoever to give Atlanta possession of the ball in the first and then let the Atlanta attacker get past him and to the by-line far too easily - like ridiculously easily. If that doesn't happen then Laryea doesn't have to come across to make a desperation sliding clearance in front of the goal (although why he should be blamed for trying to save Ciman's ass on the play is currently beyond me) which I believe bounced off Fraser accidentally into Gressel's path.

Tonight was actually a very encouraging match not just for TFC fans but for Canadian soccer fans as Shaffelberg, while looking a bit naive at times, mostly looked extremely promising. The guy set up two goals and set up Pozuelo for a third which he ought to have put away long before the PK at the end.

Thanks for clarifying. They should definitely do better ensuring that people in the ground know what is happening with VAR reviews.

Regarding Shaffelberg, his wing play was excellent. The set up for Laryea, that he wasted with a woeful first touch, was even more perfect than the one that Pozuelo fluffed a few minutes earlier. He looks like a brilliant prospect. Let's hope he gets the chances with TFC that his debut cries out for.

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Posted (edited)

Shaffelberg looked really good. Been while since we have seen that kind of quality pin point crosses from the wing.  I was mentioning before the game that sometimes you play well and still lose.  But during the recent streak i cant recall one game where TFC played well.  Tonight, yes, they won but there was no sign that they turned the corner.  Sometimes its easy to look at the standings and point out the GF’s and GA’s and think its all about poor defending.  But i think that defending and offense feed off each other.  

When attacking, this team is extremely predictable.  They just play the ball down the wings.  Unlike the past, they are no threat attacking up the middle .  In fact, there is no attacking at all up the middle.  Everything is a cross in the box.  The difference tonight is that there were some quality crosses from Schaffelberg.

 

Edited by Free kick

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Now having seen the highlights, I am not sure I would have given any of the PK's that were given in this match. The ball and hand look outside the box in the first one (at least it is not "clear and obvious" that it is, the second hand ball is unavoidable for the player and his arm is in a natural position given that he is running (it is also well after time should have expired given he only added two minutes which were up by the time the PK is struck). As for TFC's PK I can only assume it wasn't overturned because Laryea was grabbed - but I think he went down easily. To be fair to him, my guess is he saw that the KC player in the previous home game went down easily from an even weaker touch and they gave him a PK, so he maybe figured that once grabbed he would have nothing to lose thanks to VAR being used so pedantically. 

Watching the Whitecaps game replay and the Dallas first goal looked offside to me but VAR didn't overturn it. The introduction of VAR doesn't seem to have ended any controversy for officiating in soccer, it has just continued it in a different form

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7 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

...Tonight was actually a very encouraging match not just for TFC fans but for Canadian soccer fans as Shaffelberg, while looking a bit naive at times, mostly looked extremely promising...

Hopefully they don't neglect to protect him during expansion drafts after what happened with Raheem Edwards.

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Hopefully they don't neglect to protect him during expansion drafts after what happened with Raheem Edwards.

They don't need to now because he's a homegrown signing, so he'll be exempt as with all of the other homegrown players. Vanney was actually explicit about this in the post game press conference last night about why they waited until they did to sign him (basically they had to wait until he had met the development minutes required in their "farm" system to qualify as a HG player to protect him from expansion):

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2019/06/26/postgame-sound-greg-vanney-june-26-2019?autoplay=true

The one Canadian player that won't be exempt will presumably be Richie Laryea - I hope that they protect him over Auro since I think Laryea provides much better value for money than Auro and I don't know that an expansion team will use up an international spot on Auro given his salary and generally poor performance this season.

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