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Dual Nationals Part 2 - Canada + ?


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Circular logic.  

I like it, some of the faithful growing some balls and telling this cunt ass player poacher to suck his own nut sack. Stay strong V's.

@BeslynsJMH I’m trying hard to understand your point. Are you suggesting that all the statements you quoted are wrong because a guy trying to recruit players to CPL mentioned that they could “theoreti

I'm not a baby out with the bathwater type person.  If you're interested in helping minor footballing nations find dual nationals, we fit the bill as minor footballing nation.  The discussion if we are a "small footballing nation" gets conflated with Canada being a G7/G20 Nation. 

You've been provided a complete database far more advanced the transfermkt from Canucks Abroad.  If you want to discuss each individual player that you want to provide to other nations, I suggest you have that discussion with those other nations not with Canadian soccer supporters.  Right now you're a liability, however, if you want to "see the rise" of Canada and be a part of something special, we need more depth and players to come to CanPl with domestic status.  With the rapid expansion of the CanPl forecasted over the next 5-10 years, individuals willing to find players abroad with domestic status could play a significant role in the success of the league.  You've come to this forum at the very beginning of what could be the first sustainable coming of age of Canadian Soccer.  There are people from the Canadian Soccer Association and Canadian Premier League that frequent this forum.     

Just some thoughts.

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17 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

@Jmhutchinson

Our region has developed leaps and bounds in the last 20 years without our help, I don't think we need to help develop our region at the cost of losing potential players.

In my personal view, Canada's level in the last 20 years has been poor because our best players have been consistently poached by other national programs.  And I'm not just talking one or two guys, so as a group we are sensitive regarding this topic. 

Further, our player pool is just not wide or strong enough for us to be encouraging fringe players to join other programs.  Canadian players are notoriously late bloomers, so you must understand that we really can't afford to let anyone with any kind of international potential go to another program. 

I don't think you'll get much assistance here. 

 

17 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Lol. So we are supposed to help you recruit Canadian dual nationals so that other countries can get stronger, which will eventually force us to compete harder and be better?  Sure.  Interesting long term plan.  In the meantime, you are looking for potential dual nationals in CPL, a developmental league where many, many players will not have reached their full potential (ie. Anyone good enough to play international footy for another country may be a late bloomer that could potentially help our program). 

it isn't our job to develop our regional competition - it is theirs.  And in case you haven't noticed, we haven't made the latter stages of WCQ in decades, so we aren't exactly a  powerhouse that can engage in footy foreign aid.   Our efforts to develop the footy capacity of a country should be firmly focused internally, not externally.  And while @Vince193 may think no one useful may get poached, I disagree. I have already read about young guys getting picked up by CONCACAF rivals who could very much develop into potential CMNT-level players (some Haitian keeper whose name I can't recall was the most recent example).  And those guys are free to make that choice.  But I am sure as fuck not going to assist in that process.  

Clearly there is going to be players who are not going to interest the Canadian NT programme, but will of minor nations. Clearly the aim of the task is not to recruit your better U17, U20, players.

As a European, looking in, this whole region has regressed in this last World Cup cycle. No USA, Central Americas dominated, Panama wildly out of their depth at the tournament. 

CPL lauching, yet i can see young players from Europe being imported, how is that progressive?

Please elaborate on 'poaching', who of note has opted to play for another nation? In recent times i can only think of Owen Hargreaves & Johnathan De Guzman, born in Canada and internationally played for a major nation

Alot of your current roster has been 'adopted' from other nations it seems

10 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

This statement could not be more true. If someone actually bothered to do a Starting XI with Subs I cannot imagine how good the team would actually be

 

Id like to see that. Then contrast your current roster taking away those who Canada have invited into their NT programme.

Again, obviously a bitter subject that i didnt realise the level of disagreement on.

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25 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

I'm not a baby out with the bathwater type person.  If you're interested in helping minor footballing nations find dual nationals, we fit the bill as minor footballing nation.  The discussion if we are a "small footballing nation" gets conflated with Canada being a G7/G20 Nation. 

You've been provided a complete database far more advanced the transfermkt from Canucks Abroad.  If you want to discuss each individual player that you want to provide to other nations, I suggest you have that discussion with those other nations not with Canadian soccer supporters.  Right now you're a liability, however, if you want to "see the rise" of Canada and be a part of something special, we need more depth and players to come to CanPl with domestic status.  With the rapid expansion of the CanPl forecasted over the next 5-10 years, individuals willing to find players abroad with domestic status could play a significant role in the success of the league.  You've come to this forum at the very beginning of what could be the first sustainable coming of age of Canadian Soccer.  There are people from the Canadian Soccer Association and Canadian Premier League that frequent this forum.     

Just some thoughts.

I would have to disagree on the basis you are not a minor footballing nation.

Canada has been to a World Cup, won a major regional tournament in 2000 in the Gold Cup.

You have a solid player pool of professionals. Clearly way ahead of most of CONCACAF.

That is why i came to this forum, on a fact finding exercise.

In hindsight this thread would of had more relevance once the CPL was possibly 5-10 years down the line to find those professionals looking at being eligible for an  international career, who were not being looked at by the Canadian programme

Edited by Jmhutchinson
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5 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

Alot of your current roster has been 'adopted' from other nations it seems.

Define "alot", because aside from a few guys the vast majority of players were raised in Canada and learned to play the game here.

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On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 7:45 PM, Jmhutchinson said:

Please elaborate on 'poaching', who of note has opted to play for another nation? In recent times i can only think of Owen Hargreaves & Johnathan De Guzman, born in Canada and internationally played for a major nation

Alot of your current roster has been 'adopted' from other nations it seems

 

Players that have regularly represented the CMNT over the past few years who weren't either born in or spent a substantial number of their formative years living in Canada:

1. Scott Arfield

Granted, in the past, we had players like Marc Bircham occasionally come into the national team set-up, but any suggestion that Canada has been a regular poacher of players with tenuous links to the country is simply false.

With regard to the italicised point, we have lost Owen Hargreaves (England), Jonathan DeGuzman (Netherlands), Asmir Begovic (B&H), all of whom would have been stars for our team. We've also lost a host of other players who could have contributed at least a little to other European youth teams.

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On 3/4/2019 at 9:42 AM, SthMelbRed said:

Players that have regularly represented the CMNT over the past few years who weren't either born in or spent a substantial number of their formative years living in Canada:

1. Scott Arfield

Granted, in the past, we had players like Marc Bircham occasionally come into the national team set-up, but any suggestion that Canada has been a regular poacher of players with tenuous links to the country is simply false.

With regard to the italicised point, we have lost Owen Hargreaves (England), Jonathan DeGuzman (Netherlands), Asmir Begovic (B&H), all of whom would have been stars for our team. We've also lost a host of other players who could have contributed at least a little to other European youth teams.

& Borjan, Adekugbe, Brault-Guillard, Alphonso Davies, Ballou Tabla & Johnathan David, all born outside Canada & naturalised

Edited by Jmhutchinson
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9 minutes ago, Jmhutchinson said:

& Borjan, Adekugbe, Brault-Guillard, Alphonso Davies, Ballou Tabla & Johnathan David, all born outside Canada & naturalised

All of them came to Canada as small children with their families and not for footballing reasons.  I dont like the word naturalized.  They're all just Canadian.  As Canadian as Maple Donuts.

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On 3/17/2019 at 6:41 PM, Jmhutchinson said:

& Borjan, Adekugbe, Brault-Guillard, Alphonso Davies, Ballou Tabla & Johnathan David, all born outside Canada & naturalised

This (naturlised) is very much a foreign view in more ways than one.

Not a term used here since in the major cities, a third to the bulk of population tends to be foreign born and 1/5 for the overall population. Plus, we view everyone here as coming from immigrant stock ex indigenous people. 

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I always thought it would be cool to turn out for a random Pacific side, at least while indulging the fantasy that I could play footy at all. Even in my fantasy I assume I wouldn't be good enough for CanMNT. Why hate on players who are doing that for lesser teams than us? We have the youngsters coming through that we aren't going to need to rely on randoms as much as we used to...

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On 3/20/2019 at 1:36 AM, xcalibre said:

I always thought it would be cool to turn out for a random Pacific side, at least while indulging the fantasy that I could play footy at all. Even in my fantasy I assume I wouldn't be good enough for CanMNT. Why hate on players who are doing that for lesser teams than us? We have the youngsters coming through that we aren't going to need to rely on randoms as much as we used to...

This is the theme, its benefited Canada in the past, so why not much lesser nations given the chance to play in Canada. 

If they are say 22, 23 and not having a clear path to the national side, why not. In the last few weeks, China as recruited 2 former England youth prospects, in Nico Yennaris and Tyias Browning. Never going to make any further mark on the national setup so good luck to them. 

Several young English players turned out for the likes for Guyana, Antigua this week, again good luck to them

As much as i have gotten criticism, is not too far off to imagine you have guys like Welshman, Springer, turning out for these island nations, who could get a look into the local youth scene, and recommend top young talent to CPL clubs, or even Canadian MLS clubs. Bring them in at 15/16, naturalise them, and you could well have the next Alex Bunbury.

 

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3 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

 

As much as i have gotten criticism, is not too far off to imagine you have guys like Welshman, Springer, turning out for these island nations, who could get a look into the local youth scene, and recommend top young talent to CPL clubs, or even Canadian MLS clubs. Bring them in at 15/16, naturalise them, and you could well have the next Alex Bunbury.

 

Jeepers....go to our naturalization thread.  Its a ghost town, I dont think we have gotten anyone thats come MLS to play and later became a member of CMNT.  Speaking in very broad terms naturalizing teenagers isnt where we get our duals from.  It usually a parent and they feel some sort of kinship to canada, or they came to canada very young with their families.  You bring in kids in to a CDN team at 16 and generally they'll want to rep their homeland, not canada.  

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44 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

 

Jeepers....go to our naturalization thread.  Its a ghost town, I dont think we have gotten anyone thats come MLS to play and later became a member of CMNT.  Speaking in very broad terms naturalizing teenagers isnt where we get our duals from.  It usually a parent and they feel some sort of kinship to canada, or they came to canada very young with their families.  You bring in kids in to a CDN team at 16 and generally they'll want to rep their homeland, not canada.  

Never mind MLS.. has it ever happened even before that?  We've had our Birchams and Arfields but never a Dom Dwyer type player IIRC.  

One I can think of actually: Wandrille Lefevre.

Edited by Keegan
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27 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Never mind MLS.. has it ever happened even before that?  We've had our Birchams and Arfields but never a Dom Dwyer type player IIRC.  

One I can think of actually: Wandrille Lefevre.

Doesn't Radzinski fit that mold? Came to Canada when he was like 17, after training in Poland, I thought.

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