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Kent

2019 CONCACAF U17 Championship

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Delighted that we won and qualify for the U17 WC. Don't think we were the better team today but kudos to the lads for keeping their composure during the PKs. Don't have info re injury status but was surprised we did not start with a striker for the 2nd game in a row. Facchineri at right CB and Vellios at right FB have been solid all tournament. Demian and Goulbourne at Left CB and FB have been suspect as have been Pecile & Giraldo in CM. Jayden, Kamron, Rowe, Omeonga, Priso-Mbongue, Kouadio have been very good. Much better performance from Colyn today showed some intensity and skill but overall was expecting more from a player who was hyped coming in  to the tournament. CR kept their shape really well and attacked in numbers and also deployed a high press. Jayden and Kamron were very isolated and as another poster stated previously there was a big gap in our lines back four, mids and forwards and we were unable to maintain sustained pressure on attack. At the end of the day a win is a win and I will take that any day...so congrats all around. The lads certainly gave their all and thats all one can ask

 

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Posted (edited)

I would call it an even match. Canada largely controlled the first half but didn't create too many good scoring chances. Omeonga scored a goal but called back for offside. Costa Rica did dominate the first part of the second half but then they tapered off.

Thereafter, it was largely an even match. Colyn scored on a free kick but ref seem to have whistled for a foul in the wall. Altobelli got a yellow for simulation but then hit the post. Possession was 50/50, corners were equal and shots were close.

Thank god Cuban ref didn't fall for Costa Rican dives as there was about 2-3 close calls in the box. Back line played better than they did in the previous matches - played nervously only in the early part of the second half. Kouadio had about 3 straight mistakes including the one leading to the penalty. But then he redeemed himself with a penalty save.

Nelson as a striker didn't have much an influence and when he did get the ball, he was often shut down by 2-3 Costa Rican players. Good overall team performance with no individual player standing out. But there are a number of potential pro players and CPL should help them stay in the game longer. And as mentioned already, there are about 3-4 really talented players with good football iq that should make the u20 and then we'll see if they can progress to the senior team.

Congrats to John Herdman for putting the system in place to get back to the u17 WC and whatever influence he had on this specific team. 

Edited by red card

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8 minutes ago, red card said:

I would call it an even match. Canada largely controlled the first half but didn't create too many good scoring chances. Omeonga scored a goal but called back for offside. Costa Rica did dominate the first part of the second half but then they tapered off.

Thereafter, it was largely an even match. Colyn scored on a free kick but ref seem to have whistled for a foul in the wall. Altobelli got a yellow for simulation but then hit the post. Possession was 50/50, corners were equal and shots were close.

Thank god Cuban ref didn't fall for Costa Rican dives as there was about 2-3 close calls in the box. Back line played better than they did in the previous matches - played nervously only in the early part of the second half. Kouadio had about 3 straight mistakes including the one leading to the penalty. But then he redeemed himself with a penalty save.

Nelson as a striker didn't have much an influence and when he did get the ball, he was often shut down by 2-3 Costa Rican players. Good overall team performance with no individual player standing out. But there are a number of potential pro players and CPL should help them stay in the game longer. And as mentioned already, there are about 3-4 really talented players with good football iq that should make the u20 and then we'll see if they can progress to the senior team.

Congrats to John Herdman for putting the system in place to get back to the u17 WC and whatever influence he had on this specific team. 

Agree with your analysis of the game, that's pretty much what I saw.

But what about this last phrase? Congrats to JH but nothing for Olivieri??? Is it forbidden to be positive about the head coach who led these players to a World Cup?

Anyways, congrats to everyone involved with this team, specially the players! Always nice to see a Canadian team qualifying for a WC! 

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This is a good situation to be in. We did what we need to do but still have a great stretch goal to play for; we don't expect to get it buth ave more than a hope in hell. Ideal experience for the young players.

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Cuban ref doesnt fall for gamemanship, canada wins in a shootout..on to the u-17WC.....Valour beat Halifax while my 4year old and I scream with MrsC and the RRR, CPL doing well, BBTB has to eat his boot???   I'm dizzy....I need to sit down.  

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10 hours ago, aloyol said:

But what about this last phrase? Congrats to JH but nothing for Olivieri??? Is it forbidden to be positive about the head coach who led these players to a World Cup?

Don't you know once people make up their minds, facts won't change anything. 

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18 hours ago, aloyol said:

But what about this last phrase? Congrats to JH but nothing for Olivieri??? Is it forbidden to be positive about the head coach who led these players to a World Cup?

Do you believe that was a well-coached game?  I don't think either Herdman or Olivieri deserve much in the way of accolades.  The kids on the other hand...

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Congrats boys! Exciting times

Sorry for my ignorance, but when is the U17 World Cup, and will the same group of players get to compete, or will many age out beforehand?

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Just now, El Hombre said:

Do you believe that was a well-coached game?  I don't think either Herdman or Olivieri deserve much in the way of accolades.  The kids on the other hand...

I really feet like we need start providing explanations if we're going to be critical. How was it poorly coached, and what should have been done differently? I haven't seen the game myself

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Posted (edited)

You can't blame any scrappy pass on the coach. I don't know the guy but he's obviously done a good job not only improving on the last editions' results (1 win) but also in qualifying for the World Cup. And with a team we don't know a lot about and a lot of peeps on here were critical about. 

I feel like some coaches can't win here. A loss is his fall but if there's succes it's the players credit. 

Edited by shamrock

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1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Congrats boys! Exciting times

Sorry for my ignorance, but when is the U17 World Cup, and will the same group of players get to compete, or will many age out beforehand?

Same group, no aging out. Dates are not confirmed yet. The tournament was originally supposed to be in Peru, but it was relocated to Brazil after FIFA determined that Peru was not capable  of hosting effectively.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Do you believe that was a well-coached game?  I don't think either Herdman or Olivieri deserve much in the way of accolades.  The kids on the other hand...

I saw the game and it was a nice fight between 2 evenly matched teams. Except for the first 15 min of the second half where CR dominated us, I thought our team was well organized and was able to create a few nice chances. I didn't see anything that was an indication that we were poorly coached. I don't expect our youth team to go against CR and dominate the game from start to finish. Like I said, it was 50-50 affair IMHO.

Since I don't know much about the players, I can't really comment on the players selection as well.

I also feel like overall, the team did what it had to do, qualifyng second from the group stage, beating Curucao and getting to the PK's agaisnt a tough opponent in order to qualify for the WC. Nothing to complain really.

Edited by aloyol

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Posted (edited)

To be a top 4 in the region at any age group is an accomplishment.  Our senior squad hasn't even been able to make the Hex recently.

Coaching deserves some credit but it should also be noted that there is about half a dozen boys on this squad with elite talent that perhaps we have not seen in recent years.

For the U20 program there needs to be better recruitment but at 15/16 years the talent that was there was close to the best we likely had.  European based players are not as prevalent at this age for Canada and many are unable to fly back in April for such competition anyways.

If you look at other youth national programs across the world, majority are based in their native country, especially in the Americas.  Just go and look at the U20 World Cup rosters.

We need CPL academies to help with deepen our selection process.

Edited by Corazon

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1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I really feet like we need start providing explanations if we're going to be critical. How was it poorly coached, and what should have been done differently? I haven't seen the game myself

I did.  Either a few pages earlier or in the Curacao thread.  I forget which.  However, to repeat:

1) No actual thought or strategy was evident other than kick the ball up and hope that either Nelson or Omeonga can chase it down.

2) There is no link between the back line and the midfield/forwards.  There is a huge amount of space there which means you have to rely on hoofing the ball upfield, which is not good in the best of conditions, let alone on a windy day.

3) Playing a high press in 28-30 degree heat against a central american team is a gamble.  It results in a lot of unproductive running.

4) This becomes exacerbated when you have (arguably) your best player playing up top alone.  Not only does he have to chase balls down when we are in possession, he has to chase down the opposing back line when we don't.

9 minutes ago, aloyol said:

I saw the game and it was a nice fight between 2 evenly matched teams. Except for the first 15 min of the second half where CR dominated us, I thought our team was well organized and was able to create a few nice chances. I didn't see anything that was an indication that we were poorly coached. I don't expect our youth team to go against CR and dominate the game from start to finish. Like I said, it was 50-50 affair IMHO.

Since I don't know much about the players, I can't really comment on the players selection as well.

I also feel like overall, the team did what it had to do, qualifyng second from the group stage, beating Curucao and getting to the PK's agaisnt a tough opponent in order to qualify for the WC. Nothing to complain really.

You and I saw two different games then.  I did not see the organization that you saw.  The first 15 minutes of the second half were dominated by CR because it was pretty easy for them to adjust to our game plan.  The main indicator for me is the number of times possession was lost because a long ball was carried out of bounds by the wind or was easily intercepted by their team.

On any other day, playing like this will result in a loss.  Exactly like it did for the U20s against Panama in November (and then to St. Kitts).  I think the difference between this team and that one is that this one has a couple game breakers in Nelson and Habibullah.

Also, I haven't heard a coach shout that much from the sidelines since Gazzola in 2011 (who didn't exactly cover himself in glory either).  To me that means that there is no system in place or at least the kids don't fully understand/grasp it.

Normally I'm on the coach's side during these discussions because the players on the field need to be accountable for what happens.  In this case though, I see very little in Olivieri that gives me hope for Brazil.  Hopefully they can get the team together more before the tournament to figure this out.

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Posted (edited)

I'm more inclined with aloyol's view given what I saw and seeing the end result of qualifying.

1) I watched all the matches and didn't see just hoofing the ball as their primary mode. Our pass completion rate in Costa Rica match was 83%. In all matches, they scored most of their goals from open play due to individual brilliance and some great link up play. In fact, they didn't really get Nelson involved in the play enough with the long ball as there were times, he disappeared for long stretches.

2) The team basically played Herdman's system but execution wasn't always there. There were a number of times Olivieri could be telling the defensive mids to step up to close gaps. Except for Ferdinand, they didn't have fullbacks to play the system. 

3) I didn't see much of a high press in any of the matches. At times, you heard Olivieri shout "Hunt" which is a classic Herdman tactic to pressure when a vulnerability is spotted. We were actually pressed more in the group stage and by Curacao. Good tactic since our back line played nervously.

4) Playing with a lone striker fits in with Herdman's system. As I mentioned above, the rest of the team didn't involve Nelson enough to chase down hopeful balls. His goals were largely of his own making.

I do agree having game breakers helped but having this gulf in talent also seemed to have created the disjointed play that was on display at times.

Edited by red card

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1) The 83% pass completion rate was the second worst of all eight teams competing yesterday (El Salvador was 80% against Mexico).  Nelson disappeared because CR caught on to the game plan and cut out alot of those hopeful balls.

2) I didn't see Herdman's system at all but maybe I'm missing something.  The game plan was to move it along the backline to the outside and then kick it up the line.  A lot of the passes through the middle were cut out because they were just too far apart.  Rarely was there a short option coming to the ball, which meant clearing it down to avoid being caught in possession.

3) You could definitely hear Olivieri in the first 15 minutes telling Nelson to close down the CR back line.  My issue is that you are tiring your best player in pretty tough heat for low percentage plays.

4) I'm not adverse to playing with a lone striker, but I was questioning whether Nelson is the right person for that job.  It's an incredibly tough job which is why that position is usually subbed out after 60 - 70 minutes.  Is that what you want with one of your best players when you have guys like Russell-Rowe who is built for that position.  To me, Nelson is at his best on the outside cutting in.  Russell-Rowe can play up top, Omeonga can play the other side, Habibullah, Colyn and Pecile can make up the spine in that order from front to back.

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1 hour ago, red card said:

2) The team basically played Herdman's system but execution wasn't always there. There were a number of times Olivieri could be telling the defensive mids to step up to close gaps. Except for Ferdinand, they didn't have fullbacks to play the system.

 

27 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

2) I didn't see Herdman's system at all but maybe I'm missing something.  The game plan was to move it along the backline to the outside and then kick it up the line.  A lot of the passes through the middle were cut out because they were just too far apart.  Rarely was there a short option coming to the ball, which meant clearing it down to avoid being caught in possession.

Not trying to be a dick, but can someone explain to me what Herdman's system is?  I haven't really seen anything innovative during the CMNT games I have watched.

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I think it's great that we win and qualify for the U17 WC and still have disagreements re performance, coaching tactics etc. That's what happens on forums for all the top teams! Its all good guys, this is a positive development.   So lets agree on the following 2 items:

1. Qualifying for a youth WC is important; for recognition of our youth prospects, solidifying the mentality that we have lacked in big games against Concacaf teams and  to attract top level athletes for youth  soccer throughout Canada.

2. We all had high expectations going in as there were some real jewels (Jayden, Kamron, Colyn and Rowe) on this squad and a few more made their case during the tournament.

 It is a challenge for any coaching team to put their stamp on a team when we have so few camps and friendlies, but there are indicators such as  set plays on offence and defence; how we set up the defensive shield and  structure when attacking that provides some insight re coaching. Almost all the boys come from MLS academies that have structured coaching and have experience in tournaments. The CSA coaching staff have been working closely with the 3 MLS academies over the past year presumably trying to incorporate some of their tactics, strategies etc that they intend to deploy for qualifiers. In other words, this was not a one week coaching camp.  All of us whether as employees, professionals or family members are accountable to our employers, clients or family members and that holds true for soccer players, coaches and CSA executives. We should continue to expect the very best and the highest standards from our players, coaches and management. 

Looking forward to the USA game!

 

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