TFC CCL 2019

[Mikmacdo]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Now that's a hot take!

I don't think Mavinga is one of the top CBs in the league, like some MLS pundits. I would confidently put him in the next echelon after that, however.

As for Ciman, one of his main defensive strengths is stepping up from the backline to make interceptions. He anticipates very well.

Thing is, this is Bradley's strength also, albeit from a defensive midfield position.

Bradley and Ciman both potentially gambling in this way makes me nervous, and although Mavinga has the speed for that excellent recovery defending he is known for, I would rather have a pairing who doesn't get stretched out of shape.

Bradley needs help, they need to get another defensive mid fielder. 

[gator]

1 minute ago, Mikmacdo said:

Bradley needs help, they need to get another defensive mid fielder. 

They have one, Fraser who has looked good in his limited time on the pitch!

[Mikmacdo]

36 minutes ago, gator said:

They have one, Fraser who has looked good in his limited time on the pitch!

Vanney should have played him last game, they still need another DM on top of Fraser. 

[Club Linesman]

On 2/20/2019 at 9:46 AM, gator said:

Speaking of defending or lack thereof, that was brutal as well, it might be another difficult season for TFC, in saying all of this I’m not sure the tie is completely over yet, these Panamanians are not gonna like Toronto in February!

I like Gator’s never say die attitude but this mountain is too high to climb. And the cold weather affects our guys too as most don’t hail from Canada. I wouldn’t risk Altidore and now would be a good time to play guys like Chapman, Akinola, Dorsey, Shaffelburg, Dunn and the like.  No reason to risk injury to the regulars who now need to focus on the season and fix that deplorable defending. 

Mavinga after his first game has been fantastic for TFC so I am really hoping that he will return to his usual form and that we sign a couple of guys who can score.

[Gian-Luca]

Mexican teams are also finding it rough so far, Tigres lost to Saprissa and now Toluca got smoked 3-0 by KC. Meanwhile Atlanta is also getting spanked thus far, currently 3-1 in favour of Herediano.

As for playing the kids next week.......that's what they did this week which helped to cause the mess in the first place. I don't think they will risk Altidore with a start but we need to have some pride and go out and smack them comprehensively even if not by 4 goals, especially with the cold weather advantage. Unfortunately I can't see who is going to have a 4 goal game for TFC and there are not enough goal scorers currently on this squad. The way Endoh & Hamilton were at least scoring regularly at the USL level, I would play them both ahead of Akinola & Dorsey. And change the shape because  we won't prevent goals in a 4-3-3 if Bradley is on his own at the bottom of the three and Delgado is playing an attacking role instead.

[Mikmacdo]

8 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Mexican teams are also finding it rough so far, Tigres lost to Saprissa and now Toluca got smoked 3-0 by KC. Meanwhile Atlanta is also getting spanked thus far, currently 3-1 in favour of Herediano.

As for playing the kids next week.......that's what they did this week which helped to cause the mess in the first place. I don't think they will risk Altidore with a start but we need to have some pride and go out and smack them comprehensively even if not by 4 goals, especially with the cold weather advantage. Unfortunately I can't see who is going to have a 4 goal game for TFC and there are not enough goal scorers currently on this squad. The way Endoh & Hamilton were at least scoring regularly at the USL level, I would play them both ahead of Akinola & Dorsey. And change the shape because  we won't prevent goals in a 4-3-3 if Bradley is on his own at the bottom of the three and Delgado is playing an attacking role instead.

Hopefully Deleon is healthy for the next game, I think he could get Boyd some touches in the air. I would go with;

Bono

Auro-Ciman-Mavinga-Morrow

 Fraser————-Bradley

Deleon-Delgado-Osorio

————Boyd———-

[Obinna]

15 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

Bradley needs help, they need to get another defensive mid fielder. 

Very strongly disagree. Bradley is still one of the best defensive midfielders in MLS, even if he's not worth a DP spot anymore, and even if he had the worst game I ever saw him play against Independente, where everyone was either average or awful.

There is nothing to suggest that Bradley needs help and needs to play with a partner in defensive midfield. Until I see evidence that he does, I won't change my mind on that.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

Hopefully Deleon is healthy for the next game, I think he could get Boyd some touches in the air. I would go with;

Bono

Auro-Ciman-Mavinga-Morrow

 Fraser————-Bradley

Deleon-Delgado-Osorio

————Boyd———-

It will be interesting to see what Vanney does for the second leg and it will tell us a lot about him and his intentions for 2019.

If he stubbornly stays the course with a 4-3-3, even though we don't have the squad for it (yet), I think that's what we see moving forward.

However, if he is flexible enough to temporarily put the result over the process and place the 4-3-3 on the backburner, at least for this match, it'll be a good sign in my opinion. It would demonstrate that he can identify when something doesn't work and correct it.

Last year, when he stubbornly kept playing Bradley at CB, I started to see that flaw of Vanney. That unwillingness to abandon an idea that should work in theory, but doesn't work in practice.

So, I hope he does put the 4-3-3 project on hold. If he does, and reverts back to a diamond, it may look like this:

-------------------Bono-----------------

Auro-----Ciman--Mavinga---Morrow

------------------Bradley-------------------

---------Chapman--Osorio-------------

----------------*Delgado------------------

------------Endoh---Akinola/Hamilton/Boyd

*note that Delgado has played at the top of the Diamond a few times with success last year. It could be Oso or Chapman, but either way, it would be 1 of those 3.

Either way though, I would be shocked if Bradley wasn't playing ar CDM by himself, as he should in my opinion.

[Mikmacdo]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It will be interesting to see what Vanney does for the second leg and it will tell us a lot about him and his intentions for 2019.

If he stubbornly stays the course with a 4-3-3, even though we don't have the squad for it (yet), I think that's what we see moving forward.

However, if he is flexible enough to temporarily put the result over the process and place the 4-3-3 on the backburner, at least for this match, it'll be a good sign in my opinion. It would demonstrate that he can identify when something doesn't work and correct it.

Last year, when he stubbornly kept playing Bradley at CB, I started to see that flaw of Vanney. That unwillingness to abandon an idea that should work in theory, but doesn't work in practice.

So, I hope he does put the 4-3-3 project on hold. If he does, and reverts back to a diamond, it may look like this:

-------------------Bono-----------------

Auro-----Ciman--Mavinga---Morrow

------------------Bradley-------------------

---------Chapman--Osorio-------------

----------------*Delgado------------------

------------Endoh---Akinola/Hamilton/Boyd

*note that Delgado has played at the top of the Diamond a few times with success last year. It could be Oso or Chapman, but either way, it would be 1 of those 3.

Either way though, I would be shocked if Bradley wasn't playing ar CDM by himself, as he should in my opinion.

Bradley gambles way too much he's good at interception passes and starting attacks but I wouldn't call him great at defending. Ciman is similar so having two gamblers will not work well in my opinion. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Mikmacdo said:

Bradley gambles way too much he's good at interception passes and starting attacks but I wouldn't call him great at defending. Ciman is similar so having two gamblers will not work well in my opinion. 

I pointed out in an earlier post how both have that propensity for taking gambles, so I definitely agree that having both in the same side may be problematic. I wonder if Toronto see this as a strength, because it's hard to imagine they didn't know this about Ciman having that tendency.

Probably they'll figure it out, but early signs don't look so good, though the sample size is admittedly small.

As for Bradley not being a good defender, I don't have an issue with that opinion.

However, I feel it is important to mention that all the good qualities he has, such as starting attacks, stretching the field with long passes, controlling the tempo, providing a reliable outlet for the defense, stepping into challenges, communication, leadership, etc. All of that negates the fact that his defending is arguably average or even subpar.

I wouldn't trade Bradley for any other defensive midfielder in MLS. I just hope him, Ciman and Vanney can figure it out.

I would like to think 3 Cbs anchored by Drew Moor would help, but I am not holding my breath.

[Mikmacdo]

28 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I pointed out in an earlier post how both have that propensity for taking gambles, so I definitely agree that having both in the same side may be problematic. I wonder if Toronto see this as a strength, because it's hard to imagine they didn't know this about Ciman having that tendency.

Probably they'll figure it out, but early signs don't look so good, though the sample size is admittedly small.

As for Bradley not being a good defender, I don't have an issue with that opinion.

However, I feel it is important to mention that all the good qualities he has, such as starting attacks, stretching the field with long passes, controlling the tempo, providing a reliable outlet for the defense, stepping into challenges, communication, leadership, etc. All of that negates the fact that his defending is arguably average or even subpar.

I wouldn't trade Bradley for any other defensive midfielder in MLS. I just hope him, Ciman and Vanney can figure it out.

I would like to think 3 Cbs anchored by Drew Moor would help, but I am not holding my breath.

I wouldn't trade him for another defensive midfielder either but he also takes up a DP spot and makes way more money than any other DM.

[Obinna]

42 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

I wouldn't trade him for another defensive midfielder either but he also takes up a DP spot and makes way more money than any other DM.

It is what it is. We'll see if they offer Bradley TAM or a short term DP extension on smaller money.

Either way, I can't see him getting the same or more money, and I doubt any club in the world would give him what he is getting now.

That said, I can see another club offering a DP slot if we offer him a TAM deal. It would suck to lose him to another team because we only offered him TAM.

[Mikmacdo]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

It is what it is. We'll see if they offer Bradley TAM or a short term DP extension on smaller money.

Either way, I can't see him getting the same or more money, and I doubt any club in the world would give him what he is getting now.

That said, I can see another club offering a DP slot if we offer him a TAM deal. It would suck to lose him to another team because we only offered him TAM.

He hasn't looked good in over a year though. 

[Gian-Luca]

Latest forecast for Tuesday is high of minus 8, low of minus 13

[Club Linesman]

The weather won’t have a huge impact on the opposition.  It didn’t last year against Tigres, America or Chivas.  The 2% chance we have to win this game by at least 4-0 will only happen if the CID manager screws up as royally as Vanney did in the first leg.  Weather alone won’t do it.

[Gian-Luca]

26 minutes ago, Club Linesman said:

The weather won’t have a huge impact on the opposition.  It didn’t last year against Tigres, America or Chivas.  The 2% chance we have to win this game by at least 4-0 will only happen if the CID manager screws up as royally as Vanney did in the first leg.  Weather alone won’t do it.

Weather alone won’t do it, I agree, but none of those games were played at 13 below zero or even close to it. Most of them were around the freezing mark or just above from my recollection.

[Club Linesman]

They are were all f’n freezing!

But it will be -12 for TFC too and our boys may not fare any better.  So pissed off at the team I turned down free ducats to this game. 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

He hasn't looked good in over a year though. 

Lol Whatever. You're just going to focus on the negative if I say anything positive about Bradley.

I get the feeling Bradley could set up Altidore to win MLS cup and you'd still complain they get paid too much!

[Grizzly]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

I pointed out in an earlier post how both have that propensity for taking gambles, so I definitely agree that having both in the same side may be problematic. I wonder if Toronto see this as a strength, because it's hard to imagine they didn't know this about Ciman having that tendency.

Probably they'll figure it out, but early signs don't look so good, though the sample size is admittedly small.

As for Bradley not being a good defender, I don't have an issue with that opinion.

However, I feel it is important to mention that all the good qualities he has, such as starting attacks, stretching the field with long passes, controlling the tempo, providing a reliable outlet for the defense, stepping into challenges, communication, leadership, etc. All of that negates the fact that his defending is arguably average or even subpar.

I wouldn't trade Bradley for any other defensive midfielder in MLS. I just hope him, Ciman and Vanney can figure it out.

I would like to think 3 Cbs anchored by Drew Moor would help, but I am not holding my breath.

If by figure it out you are hoping Ciman will adapt his ways to the situation that will not happen. He never changed his playing style in Montreal even when it was obvious he needed to because we did not have CBs that could cover his risky moves. I said right from the beginning in Montreal that he was over rated because people rated the spectacular plays too much and didn't notice all the little mistakes. However, he still can be a good player if you have the right CB with him and the coach is using the right tactics that to cover his weaknesses and take advantage of his strengths. But don't expect him to adapt if that is not the case. The first year in Montreal it worked because Klopas was a solid defensive coach. After that he was mostly a liability. In Montreal we are pissed he signed with TFC because of how much we supported him and he was even cheered when he came back with LA but that will not be the case when he returns with TFC. However, even though our own CB situation seems to be less than ideal I don't think anyone is disappointed TFC has him from a playing level perspective especially as he is aging and will likely be less able to use speed to bail himself out of bad situations.

[Mikmacdo]

12 hours ago, Obinna said:

Lol Whatever. You're just going to focus on the negative if I say anything positive about Bradley.

I get the feeling Bradley could set up Altidore to win MLS cup and you'd still complain they get paid too much!

Bradley was awful last year. I actually thought he was the best player two years ago on the team. Jozy is my favourite player on TFC but he is injured all the damn time.

[Obinna]

12 hours ago, Grizzly said:

If by figure it out you are hoping Ciman will adapt his ways to the situation that will not happen. He never changed his playing style in Montreal even when it was obvious he needed to because we did not have CBs that could cover his risky moves. I said right from the beginning in Montreal that he was over rated because people rated the spectacular plays too much and didn't notice all the little mistakes. However, he still can be a good player if you have the right CB with him and the coach is using the right tactics that to cover his weaknesses and take advantage of his strengths. But don't expect him to adapt if that is not the case. The first year in Montreal it worked because Klopas was a solid defensive coach. After that he was mostly a liability. In Montreal we are pissed he signed with TFC because of how much we supported him and he was even cheered when he came back with LA but that will not be the case when he returns with TFC. However, even though our own CB situation seems to be less than ideal I don't think anyone is disappointed TFC has him from a playing level perspective especially as he is aging and will likely be less able to use speed to bail himself out of bad situations.

This is my worry. I am not sure Mavinga is that guy. Solid CB, mind you, but I see this pair getting stretched out of position on a regular basis.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

It's clear that MLS's parity and silly rules are hurting TFC from being a truly great club. So if TFC will be awful to watch, maybe it's time to support 2 CPL clubs, eh?

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

This is my worry. I am not sure Mavinga is that guy. Solid CB, mind you, but I see this pair getting stretched out of position on a regular basis.

This drives me nuts, they knew what Ciman (saw him enough with impact) was all about, they know Mavinga, why bring him in if they arent a good fit??  Or get the blanky blank manager to do his job and tell one of them to stay home when the other roams.  Its a partnership, teamwork etc etc.  Although it sure did seem like CIman was best at was pointing a finger and yelling at someone else everytime they gave up a goal.  

[Grizzly]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

This is my worry. I am not sure Mavinga is that guy. Solid CB, mind you, but I see this pair getting stretched out of position on a regular basis.

 

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

This drives me nuts, they knew what Ciman (saw him enough with impact) was all about, they know Mavinga, why bring him in if they arent a good fit??  Or get the blanky blank manager to do his job and tell one of them to stay home when the other roams.  Its a partnership, teamwork etc etc.  Although it sure did seem like CIman was best at was pointing a finger and yelling at someone else everytime they gave up a goal.  

Yes I am also not sure Mavinga is the ideal guy to play with Ciman or that Vanney is the correct manager to coach him properly. His playing style did not really change under Klopas or Biello but Klopas defensive system covered his errors and risks much better. I suspect if Klopas had remained in the job he might have gotten a more defensive CB to put beside him because one of the things I liked about Klopas being in charge was it was a rare time in Impact history that we had someone who could recognize a problem and then bring in a player who would solve it. (Klopas was unpopular in Montreal but I think he is not given a fair assessment). After they fired Klopas it seemed to take Impact management a long time to see what Ciman's flaws were and instead of trying to do something to minimize them they just got rid of him without adequately replacing him.

Still one of his most annoying traits was pointing at people who made errors that led to goals. He has the nickname The General because he is very vocal on the pitch. However, I find it poor leadership to be pointing at someone when he made an error even if it caused a goal. It is the job of the coach to talk about the error to the player in private after the game not that of another player to point it out on the pitch in front of 20 000 fans. Even worse is that while he often played with shaky CB partners whose errors caused goals and would point at them, he would also point at them when his own errors caused goals. It is one thing to point at Cabrera when he screws up and cost the team a goal but an entirely worse thing to point at Cabrera when you screw up and cause the team a goal!

[PhillyJawn-guy]

What happened to my original post?