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Posted (edited)

Great post by Larson yesterday responding to a question.

CPL Champion should get the CAN1 spot and VCup gets CAN2.

For the MLS teams, they should be able to qualify via MLS league play. If MLS is so adamant at claiming that they own the 3 franchises and they are an indivisible part of the league, time to prove it.

Should be:

  • CAN1 : CPL Champion
  • CAN2 : Canadian Championship
  • Future CAN spots : runner-ups of CPL table

 

Edited by Ansem

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Great post by Larson yesterday responding to a question.

CPL Champion should get the CAN1 spot and VCup gets CAN2.

For the MLS teams, they should be able to qualify via MLS league play. If MLS is so adamant at claiming that they own the 3 franchises and they are an indivisible part of the league, time to prove it.

Should be:

  • CAN1 : CPL Champion
  • CAN2 : Canadian Championship
  • Future CAN spots : runner-ups of CPL table

 

I disagree. I do think that CPL will warrant more spots in the future, but I don't like the idea of taking the CPL1 berth from Canadian Championship. If you look at the CONCACAF Index, CAN1 is prettty high up there. Those points were accrued by the MLS teams who were generally always willing to put stock into the tournament when their American counterparts fielded reserves.

Would be pretty BS to take that from them (assuming they will generally always win Canadian Championship).

And this is coming from a TFC supporter that hasn't watched a single TFC game this year because I've been too busy watching CPL

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58 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

I disagree. I do think that CPL will warrant more spots in the future, but I don't like the idea of taking the CPL1 berth from Canadian Championship. If you look at the CONCACAF Index, CAN1 is prettty high up there. Those points were accrued by the MLS teams who were generally always willing to put stock into the tournament when their American counterparts fielded reserves.

Would be pretty BS to take that from them (assuming they will generally always win Canadian Championship).

And this is coming from a TFC supporter that hasn't watched a single TFC game this year because I've been too busy watching CPL

I agree with Kurt when he's saying "eventually", but status quo can't hold forever. The league's champions goes to Champions League, which is the norm. At some point, it will have to be the case for us too.

 

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31 minutes ago, Ngravs said:

Does anyone have insider types on the game? I see the odds and want to bet it but is Forge really better? 

I don't have any inside knowledge but Forge are clearly the second best team in CPL and the recent VCup match ups gave us an idea of how Cavalry and York stack up against mediocre MLS opposition. And I honestly do not think HFX are relatively very strong but they ran Ottawa close.

The Guatemalan league is not exactly a CONCACAF powerhouse and Antigua GFC only have the 2nd place.

On transfermarkt, Antigua GFC are valued at €1.2m (22 players) and Forge are valued at €2.45m (21 players).

The better CPL teams are good. They are not really hampered by the fact they are new.

I make Forge clear favourites, probably 2-1 on.

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8 hours ago, Lofty said:

I don't have any inside knowledge but Forge are clearly the second best team in CPL and the recent VCup match ups gave us an idea of how Cavalry and York stack up against mediocre MLS opposition. And I honestly do not think HFX are relatively very strong but they ran Ottawa close.

The Guatemalan league is not exactly a CONCACAF powerhouse and Antigua GFC only have the 2nd place.

On transfermarkt, Antigua GFC are valued at €1.2m (22 players) and Forge are valued at €2.45m (21 players).

The better CPL teams are good. They are not really hampered by the fact they are new.

I make Forge clear favourites, probably 2-1 on.

My money is resting on your analysis. Don’t fail me!

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18 hours ago, Ansem said:

I agree with Kurt when he's saying "eventually", but status quo can't hold forever. The league's champions goes to Champions League, which is the norm. At some point, it will have to be the case for us too.

 

But it is not normal for a stronger tier of teams to play in a different country, and not be able to qualify for Champions League through the country that they play in either

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Just now, deschamp86 said:

But it is not normal for a stronger tier of teams to play in a different country, and not be able to qualify for Champions League through the country that they play in either

The Welsh Clubs in the English system qualifies via EPL, should be the same for them & MLS

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9 hours ago, Lofty said:

I don't have any inside knowledge but Forge are clearly the second best team in CPL and the recent VCup match ups gave us an idea of how Cavalry and York stack up against mediocre MLS opposition. And I honestly do not think HFX are relatively very strong but they ran Ottawa close.

The Guatemalan league is not exactly a CONCACAF powerhouse and Antigua GFC only have the 2nd place.

On transfermarkt, Antigua GFC are valued at €1.2m (22 players) and Forge are valued at €2.45m (21 players).

The better CPL teams are good. They are not really hampered by the fact they are new.

I make Forge clear favourites, probably 2-1 on.

Chemistry will play a big part in this I think. Antigua have played together longer, however a lot of Forge guys played together growing up. I am still feeling that they will have enough for this round. The next round I would be less confident about

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Just now, Ansem said:

The Welsh Clubs in the English system qualifies via EPL, should be the same for them & MLS

I totally agree with you, I am just saying the way the Canadian teams qualify is not normal compared to the rest of the world. I was actually keeping the Welsh teams in mind when I brought it up.

The problem is that the USSF will not want to give one of their spots to a Canadian team, so it would be up to CSA to give a spot to the "Top Canadian Team in MLS" which shouldn't happen with with the CPL being around

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10 hours ago, Lofty said:

The Guatemalan league is not exactly a CONCACAF powerhouse and Antigua GFC only have the 2nd place.

You may still be right about Forge being favourites in this tie, but Antiqua apparently won the most recent season and then followed that up by winning the playoffs, so we maybe shouldn't focus on the fact that they qualified via Guatemala's 2nd place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Liga_Nacional_de_Guatemala#Clausura

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Well, never thought I'd see anyone on the Voyageurs' Board (can we still call it that?) claiming that it should be an imperative for the CSA to diminish the value and importance of the Voyageurs Cup. What a sad turn of events.

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Posted (edited)

It’s very much the equivalent of Europa League and Champions League.

The top CPL team not in CONCACAF Champions league (after this year which is different) will qualify for CONCACAF League.  If they win CONCACAF League then they get to go to Champions League too.  

While Canada doesn’t get 2 Champions League spots at the moment we get 1 and 1.  It’s fair until the CPL proves that Canada deserves a second Champions League spot.  Maybe then we will get 2 and 1.

 

*edit* Maybe we will get 2 CONCACAF league teams, not champions league teams.  It seems only the US and Mexico get multiple Champions League teams of course.

Edited by baulderdash77

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41 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Well, never thought I'd see anyone on the Voyageurs' Board (can we still call it that?) claiming that it should be an imperative for the CSA to diminish the value and importance of the Voyageurs Cup. What a sad turn of events.

People probably never expected us to have our own league either.  

We have people here arguing it's cool that Ottawa plays in USL instead of CPL. So we had lots of people who don't always think Canada first anyways. 

We have people who don't think MLS discriminates against Canadians. 

Cest la vie

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1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

Well, never thought I'd see anyone on the Voyageurs' Board (can we still call it that?) claiming that it should be an imperative for the CSA to diminish the value and importance of the Voyageurs Cup. What a sad turn of events.

This isn't the first time I've seen people post their desire to neuter the Voyageurs Cup.

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22 hours ago, Ansem said:

Great post by Larson yesterday responding to a question.

CPL Champion should get the CAN1 spot and VCup gets CAN2.

For the MLS teams, they should be able to qualify via MLS league play. If MLS is so adamant at claiming that they own the 3 franchises and they are an indivisible part of the league, time to prove it.

Should be:

  • CAN1 : CPL Champion
  • CAN2 : Canadian Championship
  • Future CAN spots : runner-ups of CPL table

FC Andorra, which plays in Spanish leagues, cannot qualify for European competition, only teams from the Andorran league can--and many would say that those teams are inferior in quality to FC Andorra. Does not matter. European competition is one thing, using the best club to help your national team players improve is considered completely separate. 

So I guess I agree--and in any case, TFC qualifying for Champions League this year by getting past 4 games? Compared to a league of 28 fixtures plus final? Ridiculous, as much as I consider Voyageurs Cup very dignified, they have undignified it. 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, grande said:

Can we see how Forge does vs Antigua before we talk about being too good for CONCACAF League?

It's not about being too good for CONCACAF league, it's about who deserve that CCL spot?

A team that has to be 1st overall throughout 28 games?

Or

A team that could potentially only need to win between 2 to 3 games out of 4 or 6 games?

 

Edited by Ansem

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4 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

It’s very much the equivalent of Europa League and Champions League.

The top CPL team not in CONCACAF Champions league (after this year which is different) will qualify for CONCACAF League.  If they win CONCACAF League then they get to go to Champions League too.  

While Canada doesn’t get 2 Champions League spots at the moment we get 1 and 1.  It’s fair until the CPL proves that Canada deserves a second Champions League spot.  Maybe then we will get 2 and 1.

 

*edit* Maybe we will get 2 CONCACAF league teams, not champions league teams.  It seems only the US and Mexico get multiple Champions League teams of course.

Starting this year, the top 6 CONCACAF League teams qualify for the 2020 Champions League. I don't think they have said how they determine teams 5 and 6 yet. Obviously the top 4 will be the semi-finalists.

As for the Voyageurs Cup, I would prefer to keep the CCL spot there. It will help get more eyeballs on the tournament, and that tournament I think is key to gaining exposure for CPL as well as our D3 leagues. We actually got highlights on TSN in the last round! Take away the CCL spot and it becomes a meaningless tournament. That being said, as Unnamed Trialist points out, the format should be fixed so you don't have teams with a bye all the way to the semi-finals. I'm hoping this year's results will help inspire a significantly less seeded (or unseeded) tournament for next year.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Kent said:

Starting this year, the top 6 CONCACAF League teams qualify for the 2020 Champions League. I don't think they have said how they determine teams 5 and 6 yet. Obviously the top 4 will be the semi-finalists.

After the QF round the 8 teams are placed into a table and ranked by wins, losses, draws, etc., (excluding the preliminary round).

So out of the remaining 8 quarter finalists, 4 will move onto the semifinals and earn a CCL berth, 5 and 6 also earn a birth, but are knocked out of concacaf league along with 7 and 8.

So forge can qualify by making the semis or if they lose in the quarters, they must hope to be amongst the best of the losers.

Very interesting format. I like it. Every goal is going to matter in this.

Edited by Obinna

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Posted (edited)

And to add to that, they'll likely have to go through Olimpia in the round of 16 and Santa Tecla in the quarter finals. 

Neither of those matches will be easy.

Edited by Obinna

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Obinna said:

After the QF round the 8 teams are placed into a table and ranked by wins, losses, draws, etc., (excluding the preliminary round).

So out of the remaining 8 quarter finalists, 4 will move onto the semifinals and earn a CCL berth, 5 and 6 also earn a birth, but are knocked out of concacaf league along with 7 and 8.

So forge can qualify by making the semis or if they lose in the quarters, they must hope to be amongst the best of the losers.

Very interesting format. I like it. Every goal is going to matter in this.

That is a really good idea. If you project out for sake of argument, I'll include Forge

Forge

Marathon

Saprissa

Independent

Tauro

San Carlos 

Herediano

Montague

That's a no joke competition but 14 weeks is pretty long and strenuous. Maybe the 4 QF loosers go in to a group?

Edited by SpursFlu

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9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And to add to that, they'll likely have to go through Olimpia in the round of 16 and Santa Tecla in the quarter finals. 

Neither of those matches will be easy.

Santa Tecla is in the other half of the bracket, if wikipedia can be trusted. The potential QF opponents would be Communicaciones (Guatemala), Marathon (Honduras), Guastatoya (Guatemala).

Yes, all 3 Guatemalan teams are in the same quarter of the bracket.

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