Canadian Premier League joins CONCACAF League

[Copes]

I'm not opposed to the scheme, and I like that there is some level of international soccer as a reward for winning our season. That's how it should be. 

I hope over time the reward can become a direct entry into the Champion's League, as per MLS' structure. However, for now, I'm more than content with this. 

I don't think the 2019 entry into this will necessarily be the absolute best rep (unless one team is very dominant) simply because we won't have a full season under our belts yet, but how much can you really complain? I'll take any CPL representation and the solution for year 1 will obviously be different than every future year ever. So what odds.

[Keegan]

It’s huge for the league that teams are battling for continental competition off the bat.  And who knows.. maybe we get another spot in the 2020 CL before the end of this season if all goes well (maybe a few more teams announced, good showing in 2019 CL play).  

[ted]

 

12 hours ago, Ansem said:

Maybe an early and swift version of the "League Cup" while playing the regular season simultaneously?

Winner of early League Cup = 2019 CONCACAF League

Winner of CPL Cup = 2020 CONCACAF League

Running out of ideas

This seems like the best idea. It also would add some competitive games for this first season where we only have 7 teams.

Of course, I want a league cup to stick around as part of the plan generally so there is my bias.

[lazlo_80]

Very curious to see how CPL stacks up against some of these leagues 

[Obinna]

48 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

I'm a little disappointed they didn't choose to knock USA4 and MEX4 into the CL, and then give the top-8 a CCL spot.

This would have basically setup pot 2 as all the teams qualifying out of CL. Although those 2 clubs would likely be at/near the top and still qualify every year, it would provide some stronger competition in the big mix. It would also have made it possible for some major upsets if USA4 were kept below the top-8 by a Costa Rica or Honduras. Would be a little more variety for CCL in the end.

Still, I generally like how they remapped this competition, although I do have some questions.

Will the preliminary round be a "permanent" fixture?

Will the same "spots" (ie CAN2) always be a part of the preliminary round, or will that be remapped to those who didn't advance beyond round of 16?

I was actually thinking the Copa MX champion could earn a berth to the CONCACAF league. The would give Mexico sort of an extra spot, which quite frankly they deserve, considering they have the same number of spots as the USA. 

Just a thought though. Very happy with things as they are at the moment! And I'm not trying to do the Mexicans any favors! 

[Cblake]

Or you could do a separate CONCACAF League qualifying tournament for just the 2020 entry to not affect the league schedule. In future years it would be the champion from the previous season. It's likely not ideal but may make the most sense. 

Take the seven teams. Have a draw with team drawn as 1 getting a first round bye. It would be a random draw with two pots, one with the team names and the other being a numbers 1-7. 

2 vs 7

3 vs 6

4 vs 5

winners are joined by team 1 in the semi-finals.

Winners advance to the final, with qualification for CL on the line.

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Cblake

[Shortdutchcanuck]

15 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Very curious to see how CPL stacks up against some of these leagues 

Will be a massive challenge with small rosters and a travel schedule already busy just with distances across Canada involved in regular season plus Voyageurs Cup.  Especially in Year 1 with no roster familiarity to build on.  

Now just waiting for the league to announce Forge FC as token 2018 Champions due to Bob Young's influence ?

[Obinna]

13 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Actually kinda liking this scheme.  An international carrot, even if it's going to be against clubs 97% of CPL fans/supporters have never heard of does still have a healthy bit of sexiness about it.  The knock out format, like the V's Cup, won't add a bunch of fixtures to anybodies calendar unless of course they earn it.  Everybody loves knock out competitions and everybody loves a good underdog story.  If any CPL team goes anywhere in this tourney it's going to be a good underdog story.  No doubt about it.

Of course the Devil is in the details though. 

I mean how else can you fairly contest for a CPL "champion" to enter the tourney without a balanced 1st half schedule?  And if we have to have a  apertura/clausura league schedule to get this then I vote nay.    Yuck.  Figure something else out.  If some one from CPL HQ needs to they can call me.  We'll tilt a few glasses and see if we can't figure something else out. 

PIty both the the V's Cup and CONCACAF League will both be awarded so early into the league's season.  Would be better if we can close out the footballing season with as much of a flourish as possible.

Perhaps I am missing something, but the V's Cup concludes in September, the CPL concludes in October, and the CONCACAF league (for a single team) concludes in November, isn't that right?

Seems to line up rather decently, no?

[Kent]

13 hours ago, Cheeta said:

PIty both the the V's Cup and CONCACAF League will both be awarded so early into the league's season.  Would be better if we can close out the footballing season with as much of a flourish as possible.

I'm not caught up, so sorry if this has been addressed. The Voyageurs Cup will be awarded on September 25th, so that's not exactly early into the league's season. I'm not sure if you meant the CONCACAF League spot or the CONCACAF League championship, but the CONCACAF League winners will be decided in November, and the teams that advance to CCL will only be known in September. If you were talking about the CONCACAF League spot, then presumably the 2020 spot will be awarded at the end of the CPL season in October.

There's a lot of stuff going on to be excited about! And of course all with incredibly similar acronyms. CC, CPL, CL, CCL.

[Stouffvillain]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Good point. The current max is 48 games. With a 26/27 week season minus international breaks, it simply doesn't fit unless you sometimes play three times per week, which is ridiculous. It would help if the Voyageurs Cup became a single game knockout tournament like the FA Cup.

Am I the only one that isn't thrilled about a 28 game season in year one?  Isn't it a bit much to see the same team 4 or 5 times in one season?

Add in the climate we have which limits the time in which the season can be played, a 2 legged V-Cup, international breaks (though CPL could probably play through them this year) and now CL.  I think that you are right that three game weeks may be a regular thing that no one really wants. 

[Kent]

12 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Thinking about CCL scheduling for a moment: Apparently play in the 2019 CCL starts on Feb 19th. That is one week from now. Here in Winnipeg it is -16C with the windchill and there are a couple of feet of snow on the ground that ain't going away anytime soon. And we have just come off -40C with the windchill. There is no chance of playing outdoors in Winnipeg in February. I guess they could play indoors (we do have three great full size indoor facilities) but it would have to be in front of hundreds of spectators, not thousands. And it would be kinda bush league.

In the same vein, I thought I saw somewhere that the CL finals will be in November. More often than not it snows at the start of November and -25C with the windchill could certainly happen. And if Valour are strong, we could be talking about THIS November!

Last year when Colorado hosted TFC it was -16 C without the windchill. https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2018/02/21/despite-frigid-temperatures-toronto-fc-fire-all-cylinders-champions-league-opener

It's not the prettiest and it's damaging to grass fields, but it can be done. I hope we just get on with it rather than try to come up with excuses for pulling out of the competition, or playing indoors in front of 100 people.

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, Kent said:

Last year when Colorado hosted TFC it was -16 C without the windchill. https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2018/02/21/despite-frigid-temperatures-toronto-fc-fire-all-cylinders-champions-league-opener

It's not the prettiest and it's damaging to grass fields, but it can be done. I hope we just get on with it rather than try to come up with excuses for pulling out of the competition, or playing indoors in front of 100 people.

Yeah, I like that attitude.

And good point, I forgot just how cold it was in Colorado that day. It will just force the clubs involved to find solutions. Like, out in Winnipeg or Edmonton they are use to watching CFL in sub zero temperatures. Not saying it's popular or ideal, but both have field turf at least, so it's just a matter of clearing any snow and getting on with it, as you say.

 

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Rintaran said:

I'm a little disappointed they didn't choose to knock USA4 and MEX4 into the CL, and then give the top-8 a CCL spot.

This would have basically setup pot 2 as all the teams qualifying out of CL. Although those 2 clubs would likely be at/near the top and still qualify every year, it would provide some stronger competition in the big mix. It would also have made it possible for some major upsets if USA4 were kept below the top-8 by a Costa Rica or Honduras. Would be a little more variety for CCL in the end.

Still, I generally like how they remapped this competition, although I do have some questions.

Will the preliminary round be a "permanent" fixture?

Will the same "spots" (ie CAN2) always be a part of the preliminary round, or will that be remapped to those who didn't advance beyond round of 16?

Yeah, if they did this by results and threw away bias, it would have looked like this (based on today's stats, could change after the 2019 CCL of course).

Straight to CCL pot A: MEX3, MEX1, MEX2, CAN1, USA3, MEX4, USA4, USA1

Straight to CCL pot B: PAN1, USA2 (darn it, USA still gets 4 spots in CCL by the skin of their teeth)

Straight to CL pot A: CRC1, HON1, CRC2, PAN2, GUA1, SLV1, HON2, SLV2

Straight to CL pot B: GUA2, CCC2

CL Preliminary round pot A: CRC4, NCA1, CCC1, PAN3, PAN4, CCC3

CL Preliminary round pot B: HON3, CRC3, HON4, BLZ1, SLV3, CAN2

In English, that is

CCL pot A: Mexico 4 spots, USA 3 spots, Canada 1 spot

CCL pot B: Panama 1 spot, USA 1 spot

CL pot A: Costa Rica 2 spots, Honduras 2 spots, El Salvador 2 spots, Panama 1 spot, Guatemala 1 spot

CL pot B: Guatemala 1 spot, Caribbean 1 spot

CL preliminary round pot A: Panama 2 spots, Caribbean 2 spots, Costa Rica 1 spot, Nicaragua 1 spot

CL preliminary round pot B: Honduras 2 spots, Costa Rica 1 spot, Belize 1 spot, El Salvador 1 spot, Canada 1 spot

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Last year when Colorado hosted TFC it was -16 C without the windchill. https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2018/02/21/despite-frigid-temperatures-toronto-fc-fire-all-cylinders-champions-league-opener

It's not the prettiest and it's damaging to grass fields, but it can be done. I hope we just get on with it rather than try to come up with excuses for pulling out of the competition, or playing indoors in front of 100 people.

If you tried to play outside in February in Winnipeg you would be a laughing stock. And it would still be in front of 100 people.

As for the practicalities, you cannot play on a frozen pitch as it is too dangerous so I assume Colorado have undersoil heating. I don't know if IG field has underground heating but if not I believe it is very expensive to retrofit. As for snow, there is often a LOT of it and you would have to clear the stands as well as the pitch. Not to mention ice, which would also have to be cleared from all spectator areas. Those are not excuses, they are just practical realities.

It would make a lot more sense to play those early home legs somewhere else in Canada.

[nfitz]

25 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

It would make a lot more sense to play those early home legs somewhere else in Canada.

Some years, the early legs for Champions League have been played indoors, at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal or Skydome in Toronto.

One could always play in a bubble somewhere, without spectators.

Though surely no need to worry about this until a team is close to qualifying. There's a lot of things that have to happen before this is a concern!

[Initial B]

One thing that galls me about this format is that the Caribbean Club Champion gets an automatic spot in CCL (which isn't listed in your second pot, Kent). There is no way they deserve that - they should be forced to play in the CL round.

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I forgot just how cold it was in Colorado that day. It will just force the clubs involved to find solutions. Like, out in Winnipeg or Edmonton they are use to watching CFL in sub zero temperatures. Not saying it's popular or ideal, but both have field turf at least, so it's just a matter of clearing any snow and getting on with it, as you say.

 I can tell you that the cold will be the most significant advantage Canadian teams have in the first rounds of the CCL. The Southern teams won't know what hit them.

However, I also want to point out that the CL final last year was held beginning of October, so I expect that the final will be towards the beginning of November. Still, if a CPL gets that far, the cold will be their ally.

[Ansem]

Concacaf League expansion results in addition of Canada 2
 
In 2019, Canada Soccer will use the home and away matches in the Canadian Premier League regular season between FC Edmonton, Forge FC, and Valour FC to determine who advances to the Preliminary Round of the 2019 Scotiabank Concacaf League. Consistent with seeding for the Canadian Championship based on membership, these three inaugural teams will be provided with a unique opportunity for this season to earn the Canada 2 spot in Scotiabank Concacaf League. Starting in 2020, the previous year’s Canadian Premier League champion will earn the right to be designated as Canada 2 in Scotiabank Concacaf League. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

56 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Concacaf League expansion results in addition of Canada 2
 
In 2019, Canada Soccer will use the home and away matches in the Canadian Premier League regular season between FC Edmonton, Forge FC, and Valour FC to determine who advances to the Preliminary Round of the 2019 Scotiabank Concacaf League. Consistent with seeding for the Canadian Championship based on membership, these three inaugural teams will be provided with a unique opportunity for this season to earn the Canada 2 spot in Scotiabank Concacaf League. Starting in 2020, the previous year’s Canadian Premier League champion will earn the right to be designated as Canada 2 in Scotiabank Concacaf League. 

Before everyone jumps to the conspiracy theories of favouritism for the founders,  I suspect not all clubs wanted to take part.  The hassle and cost of traveling back and forth to central america is not to be overlooked.  

[grasshopper1917]

3 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Before everyone jumps to the conspiracy theories of favouritism for the founders,  I suspect not all clubs wanted to take part.  The hassle and cost of traveling back and forth to central america is not to be overlooked.  

I don't buy that explanation. This is just bizarre in my mind. I doubt the 4 other clubs just said 'yea we wont bother this year - gonna save a few bucks'.  

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 minute ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I don't buy that explanation. This is just bizarre in my mind. I doubt the 4 other clubs just said 'yea we wont bother this year - gonna save a few bucks'.  

Seeing Rob Friend retweet Pacific FC fans complaining, I think you might be right.

[SkuseisLoose]

1 minute ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Seeing Rob Friend retweet Pacific FC fans complaining, I think you might be right.

He retweeted Ben Fisk not a fan but definitely get that idea from him

[Shortdutchcanuck]

25 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Before everyone jumps to the conspiracy theories of favouritism for the founders,  I suspect not all clubs wanted to take part.  The hassle and cost of traveling back and forth to central america is not to be overlooked.  

You don't need any conspiracy theories about favouritism or anything else: this is just the CSA doing classic CSA things.

[Copes]

Duane Rollins tweeted that other clubs weren't happy. Made it sound like a CSA choice?

Whatever it is, my happiness about the CONCACAF League has been coated in salt.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

It is not a good look but my guess is we will mostly forget about it as season starts.  And then eventually it will be looked back on almost fondly as one of those absurd little nuggets of CanPL history.

[SkuseisLoose]

Ben Fisk's take on it all