Canadian Premier League joins CONCACAF League

[PaulV]

<nevermind, misunderstood the issue>

Edited October 26, 2020 by PaulV

[Ansem]

It begins!

 

 

[Kent]

8 hours ago, Shway said:

You're rightly confused, I've answered the questions. 

My understanding is the higher seed is awarded through winning the Voyageurs Cup (due to it being contested for by both CPL & MLS teams). Which earns a birth into the Concacaf Champions League.
The CPL Champions earn a birth to the Concacaf League.

The dilemma is if Forge FC win the Voyageurs cup in addition to their CPL Championship, which slot do they take. For me it's not rocket science, as they would take the higher seed. The part that should be in question is, who does the CL spot go to....TFC or HFX. To me since the CL spot isn't contested for by MLS teams, it should go to HFX.

The MLS dilemma for TFC is if they win the Supporters Shield...but it's been said (confirmed by Concacaf?) that even if they do, they will not earn the spot into Concacaf Champions League because its an American spot. 

So my dream parlay scenario is:
- Forge beat TFC in the Voyageurs Cup
- Forge advance far enough in the CL to earn CCL spot
- TFC win Supporters Shield
- TFC win MLS Cup

Your answers to Cheeta’s questions were correct, but you are confusing things a bit in the bold section I quoted above. More clarifications, which I hope don’t just confuse things more

Forge qualified to the 2020 CONCACAF League by winning the 2019 CPL Championship, which was awarded by the CSA.

Forge qualified to the 2021 CONCACAF League by winning the 2020 CPL Championship, which was awarded by the CSA. So HFX finished 2nd in qualifying for next years CONCACAF League, not the one that Forge is currently competing in, so your suggestion would make more sense if you said Cavalry rather than HFX. But even then, Cavalry was 2nd in qualifying for CONCACAF League, not Champions League, so your scenario effectively gives Cavalry (or HFX) credit for Forge’s performance in the 2020 CONCACAF League, which they didn’t even compete in.

Forge could qualify for the 2021 Champions League by advancing far enough in CONCACAF League in 2020 (the current campaign), which would be awarded by CONCACAF.

Forge could qualify for the 2021 Champions League by winning the 2020 Voyageurs Cup, which would be awarded by CONCACAF.

So the things that complicate things is that Canada uses 2 different competitions to advance to 2 different CONCACAF competitions, and the timing is staggered. The Caribbean is the only other region to get spots in both CONCACAF competitions, but they seed their teams based on one tournament (Caribbean championship). So they will always have 4 different teams in their 4 different qualifying spots. The team that finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in that tournament. Other countries use multiple competitions to determine their spots, so they can have a single team qualify twice, like if an American team wins the Supporters Sheild and MLS Cup, and another with the US Open Cup. But they all go to the Champions League and all those spots are awarded by the USSF so they come up with rules for who gets the spot in those conditions (next best American team in MLS regular season that hasn’t already qualified).

If, hypothetically a team that finished top 6 in CONCACAF League for some reason couldn’t go to the Champions League (like they got banned or something) it is pretty clear that CONCACAF would send the next best team from CONCACAF League. But with Canada it isn’t so clear. The Voyageurs Cup spot is higher seeded based on historical results from the Voyageurs Cup representative in Champions League. So if Forge is allowed to chose between the 2 spots, they would choose that spot and give up the one that CONCACAF awarded them. So it would seem in that scenario CONCACAF would have to choose the next best CONCACAF League team. But that effectively takes away one of the spots Canada is supposed to be awarded.

I think if they want to keep the same qualifications they need to push back the Voyageurs Cup a year. So winning 2020 CPL would get you 2021 CONCACAF League (this is what it currently is) and 2020 Voyageurs Cup winner would get 2022 Champions League (currently its 2021 Champions League).

tl;dr we need a ruling from CONCACAF/CSA to know what the hell would happen.

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

I think if they want to keep the same qualifications they need to push back the Voyageurs Cup a year. So winning 2020 CPL would get you 2021 CONCACAF League (this is what it currently is) and 2020 Voyageurs Cup winner would get 2022 Champions League (currently its 2021 Champions League).

tl;dr we need a ruling from CONCACAF/CSA to know what the hell would happen.

 I've suggested that the most straight forward way is to just keep Forge in the League spot and TFC in the Voyagers spot, regardless of outcome.  The other way you could go is a talk with CONCACAF about flipping the seeding (Forge takes the top one, TFC the lower).  It keeps everyone in the same year.  But regardless, I don't see a scenario where the CPL gets a second spot out of it this year.

[Cheeta]

13 hours ago, Shway said:

You're rightly confused, I've answered the questions. 

...

So my dream parlay scenario is:
- Forge beat TFC in the Voyageurs Cup
- Forge advance far enough in the CL to earn CCL spot
- TFC win Supporters Shield
- TFC win MLS Cup

Ah yes, forgot that Canadian MLS teams can't win through into Champions League.  In the big scheme of things this is nobody elses problem except for the Canadian MLS teams so who cares? (That is, if the Canadian MLS teams even see that as a problem).  But TFC earning the goods in MLS, which is having something of a proper season in 2020, and not going through to the confederation's club championships would be pretty bloody funny though. 

Funny or not I'm not betting against TFC winning the Vs Cup, as bizarre a "competition" as it is in 2020.  Fun to speculate however.  

 

[scooterlawrence5]

The process of "spot" allocation will have to be re-examined each year by Concacaf for this to make sense in the long-run.

[ForgeCan4]

Anyone have any idea on what would happen if Forge beat Tauro to advance to the Quarterfinals of the Concacaf League which is a two leg Home and Away tie? Would Forge be able to play their home league at home in Hamilton? or is it impossible due to the 14 day quarantine upon entering Canada.

[narduch]

32 minutes ago, ForgeCan4 said:

Anyone have any idea on what would happen if Forge beat Tauro to advance to the Quarterfinals of the Concacaf League which is a two leg Home and Away tie? Would Forge be able to play their home league at home in Hamilton? or is it impossible due to the 14 day quarantine upon entering Canada.

Canada might have rapid testing in place by then. We know Air Canada is pushing for that.

I also think CONCACAF will eventually switch the later rounds to single knock-out matches too. If you can't have fans what's the point of travelling to play a team twice?

[narduch]

I've been thinking about his a bit more and once the next round is over they may as well finish the tournament off in one location. Similar to how the UEFA Champions League ended.

[Shway]

 

Anybody else find this corny/cringe-worthy? Or am I just over thinking this.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

 

Anybody else find this corny/cringe-worthy? Or am I just over thinking this.

I don’t understand this. Are these Forge fans wanting Limeno shirts? Is this like a serial killer style trophy or they just like the zany kit?

[Aird25]

I assumed it was a piglet fetish

[narduch]

These guys are just soccer hipsters.

This is the soccer equivalent of buying the CD at the merch table from the opening band that will never make it big.

Edited October 27, 2020 by narduch

[sebdeserio]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Some people are kit collectors, and with those jagged stripes and badge like that what's not to like?

[toontownman]

No different than grabbing those joint match scarfs you often get. It's a souvenir and in addition it helps support another club that isn't loaded with cash.

Doesn't bother me. Probably wouldn't be buying one either. But skinflint gonna skinflint.

[Shway]

56 minutes ago, toontownman said:

No different than grabbing those joint match scarfs you often get. It's a souvenir and in addition it helps support another club that isn't loaded with cash.

Doesn't bother me. Probably wouldn't be buying one either. But skinflint gonna skinflint.

Definitely not the same. As those scarves usually have the date on it, or at least signify that a match took place between two teams. 
Getting the jersey of a foreign team does not....and wait when has CPL teams been so loaded with cash? I just hope everyone buying the jersey has maxed out their gear for the teams they support. 

Because I swear you only hear this stuff in North American soccer fan culture. Nobody does this elsewhere if it's to not burn the jersey, or they two fans didn't swap jerseys. 

[SpursFlu]

5 hours ago, Shway said:

 

Anybody else find this corny/cringe-worthy? Or am I just over thinking this.

I thought those jerseys were great. I collect shirts but I would only pick one up if I travelled there for the game or something. But I genuinely liked those. Very original 

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Definitely not the same. As those scarves usually have the date on it, or at least signify that a match took place between two teams. 
Getting the jersey of a foreign team does not....and wait when has CPL teams been so loaded with cash? I just hope everyone buying the jersey has maxed out their gear for the teams they support. 

Because I swear you only hear this stuff in North American soccer fan culture. Nobody does this elsewhere if it's to not burn the jersey, or they two fans didn't swap jerseys. 

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Plus beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not sure what the platitudes are about but ultimately its meaningful for the fans buying them. Just because it doesnt have a date on it doesn't mean it's not worth having for those fans buying.

Agree on the support CPL first obviously.

[narduch]

Forge's match against Tauro has been moved to 8pm ET.

Will be a nice distraction from the shitshow happening down south. 

[The Real Marc]

16 hours ago, toontownman said:

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Plus beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not sure what the platitudes are about but ultimately its meaningful for the fans buying them. Just because it doesnt have a date on it doesn't mean it's not worth having for those fans buying.

Agree on the support CPL first obviously.

I think this is a special case. It’s all about the soccer playing piglet. I mean this jersey is so hideous it’s amazing 

[Unnamed Trialist]

21 hours ago, narduch said:

Forge's match against Tauro has been moved to 8pm ET.

Will be a nice distraction from the shitshow happening down south. 

Panama does not change time, they remain on standard year round. I just found that out yesterday from a student of mine who is studying from home in Panama City, in case anyone was calculating. 

[aredding77]

Chris Nanco posted on his Instagram stories last night that he arrived in Panama City very early this morning.  With Kwame Awuah back at LB and Nanco on the wing (even if it might be as a substitute), these are great reinforcements to be getting back ahead of the game against Tauro FC.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

20 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

I think this is a special case. It’s all about the soccer playing piglet. I mean this jersey is so hideous it’s amazing 

Can remember seeing quite a bit of Boavista related stuff in Scotland after Rangers played a game against them in the mid-80s because from what I was told the visting supporters had liked their unusual jersey in a similar sort of way and generally seemed to have enjoyed Porto as a city and watching their team playing against a friendly wee club in a small stadium with no aggro from the home support. Don't think this is anything out of the ordinary in terms of fan culture.

[fil]

 

Don’t miss out as Forge hits the pitch for an exciting match against its Panamanian opponents in the round of 16 of the continental competition.

MATCH DETAILS

• Date: Tuesday, November 3
• Time: 8 p.m. ET
• Opponent: Tauro FC
• Location: Estadio Rommel Fernández, Panama City, Panama
• Watch: Tune in to TSN3 and TSN 5 at 7:57 p.m. ET

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by fil

[T_Bison]

On 10/29/2020 at 12:07 PM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Don't think this is anything out of the ordinary in terms of fan culture.

I don't think it is either, but even if it is, who cares? We're talking about a bunch of people buying a shirt. At worst it's something that will give joy to those people for a bit. At best it's helping Limeno make a bit more money and contribute to the local economy.

People gotta chill on the Us vs Them stuff and reserve it for things that matter.