Shortdutchcanuck Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 49 minutes ago, Robert said: The questions then become, do I want to support this level of soccer if only 12 out of the 22 players on the field are Canadian? Do I want to support this level of soccer watching the equivalent of one team that is comprised of foreigners? This is how the CPL clubs will show us their true colours. Does your club bleed "RED, WHITE & TRUE? There is a flip side to this argument. Do I want to support the 100 plus Canadians and at least 40 Canadian starters who will finally have the chance to play pro soccer in their home country? Or am I going to withdraw my support, because I want a couple more Canadians, and jeopardize the careers of those 100 plus Canadians? For me the answer is obvious. Hell yeah I'll support a league with 70% Canadians. If some teams have more, great. But between Euro-snobs who haven't the slightest interest in Canadian soccer and Robert-types who will only support all-Canadian teams, man do we face a lot of challenges in building something that could be a huge leap forward for soccer in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said: There is a flip side to this argument. Do I want to support the 100 plus Canadians and at least 40 Canadian starters who will finally have the chance to play pro soccer in their home country? Or am I going to withdraw my support, because I want a couple more Canadians, and jeopardize the careers of those 100 plus Canadians? For me the answer is obvious. Hell yeah I'll support a league with 70% Canadians. If some teams have more, great. But between Euro-snobs who haven't the slightest interest in Canadian soccer and Robert-types who will only support all-Canadian teams, man do we face a lot of challenges in building something that could be a huge leap forward for soccer in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBob Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 It's amazing how many forum questions could be nuked with a simple, Neither you or I know anything and all we can do is wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said: There is a flip side to this argument. Do I want to support the 100 plus Canadians and at least 40 Canadian starters who will finally have the chance to play pro soccer in their home country? Or am I going to withdraw my support, because I want a couple more Canadians, and jeopardize the careers of those 100 plus Canadians? For me the answer is obvious. Hell yeah I'll support a league with 70% Canadians. If some teams have more, great. But between Euro-snobs who haven't the slightest interest in Canadian soccer and Robert-types who will only support all-Canadian teams, man do we face a lot of challenges in building something that could be a huge leap forward for soccer in this country. I guess its a whole lot easier to intentionally misconstrue things I say, than it is to come up with your own valid arguments. 1) I wasn't the one who billed the CPL as being a league "for Canadians, by Canadians." Back where I come from, if one advertises something, they should deliver. 2) Show me one of my posts where I said that I would only support all-Canadian teams? Obviously you can't do it, because I never made such a claim! All I asked was if there going to be a Chivas-like club in the CPL, based on the CPL's billing. 3) My point is, to try get at least ONE additional Canadian player, per team, a starting position over and above the CPL imposed minimum quota of six, which would bring us much closer to the "Hell yeah I'll support a league with 70% Canadians" total that you are looking for. 4) So careful what you post, cause this ''Robert-type" pisses over shortdutchcanucks that are twice your size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortdutchcanuck Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BillyBob said: It's amazing how many forum questions could be nuked with a simple, Neither you or I know anything and all we can do is wait and see. Fair enough. But then how would we fill up all these pages of forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortdutchcanuck Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert said: I guess its a whole lot easier to intentionally misconstrue things I say, than it is to come up with your own valid arguments. There was some tongue-in-cheek hyperbole in my post, I'll give you that. The point was meant to be: Everyone is going to have their own criticisms of the league. I'd just hate to see those criticisms turn into reasons for serious soccer fans not to support the league. Growth of the sport in the country is what we all want, even if the vehicle for that growth is not perfect. 'For Canadians, by Canadians' can mean any number of things. It is essentially a marketing strategy (hopefully a successful one). Thankfully it comes with certain guarantees for Canadian content. Whether or not they go far enough is absolutely up for criticism and debate. So far the signings of players and hirings of coaches and assistant coaches and goalie coaches have been pretty overwhelmingly Canadian. 1 hour ago, Robert said: 4) So careful what you post, cause this ''Robert-type" pisses over shortdutchcanucks that are twice your size. I made an enemy! I finally feel like a legit member of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Shortdutchcanuck said: I made an enemy! I finally feel like a legit member of this forum. Fuck! What took you? Do you think you're God, or something?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Robert said: 2) Show me one of my posts where I said that I would only support all-Canadian teams? Obviously you can't do it, because I never made such a claim! All I asked was if there going to be a Chivas-like club in the CPL, based on the CPL's billing. I guess you are right. You never specifically said that. You haven’t exactly been consistent though. A couple times you were allowing as many as 2 foreign players on the field. Another time you said more than 51% would suffice. Then another time you railed on them for guaranteeing by rule only 54.5%. You editing the manifesto with 54.5% and constantly talking about how the league should deliver on its promises sure sounded like you were implying that only 100% would do. Either way, shortdutchcanuck’s point still holds. If you are going to boycott the league because they cross your line in the sand and play 3 foreign players, you are becoming part of the problem with soccer in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 11 hours ago, Kent said: I guess you are right. You never specifically said that. You haven’t exactly been consistent though. A couple times you were allowing as many as 2 foreign players on the field. Another time you said more than 51% would suffice. Then another time you railed on them for guaranteeing by rule only 54.5%. You editing the manifesto with 54.5% and constantly talking about how the league should deliver on its promises sure sounded like you were implying that only 100% would do. Either way, shortdutchcanuck’s point still holds. If you are going to boycott the league because they cross your line in the sand and play 3 foreign players, you are becoming part of the problem with soccer in this country. There is quite range between 54.5% and 100%, right? Again, I never once implied that all 7 CPL clubs should field line-ups comprised exclusively of 100% Canadian players. It was the CPL, whose manifesto is "for Canadians, by Canadians," that set the bar at a minimum of 6 Canadian players, or 54.5%. I feel, now that we finally get to set our rules and don't have to adhere to the rules of foreign leagues, that the bar should be set higher, which I have supported with reasons why. Obviously, this has pissed a few people off. No big deal. There are some Voyageurs on this board are so fucking desperate for any kind of league, that they wouldn't care if there were no Canadians players at all. None have said how many Canadians they would like to see on the field. Unfortunately/fortunately, there are not enough of these "types" in Canada to keep a league afloat. I continue to stand by what I said earlier, which is that foreign players who have been rejected elsewhere are not going to improve the level of our young Canadian players. Maybe after year one of the CPL, clubs can begin to send scouts to countries like Guatemala and Honduras and offer talent they have seen opportunities to come and play in Canada. So let me ask you one questions. Just how "for Canadians, by Canadians" is good enough for you. 1 Canadian out of 11 players? 2 Canadians out of 11 players? 3 Canadians out of 11 players? 4 Canadians out of 11 players? 5 Canadians out of 11 players? 6 Canadians out of 11 players? 7 Canadians out of 11 players? 8 Canadians out of 11 players? 9 Canadians out of 11 players? 10 Canadians out of 11 players? 11 Canadians out of 11 players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanSuffer Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 A minority of foreigners in a national league can be a very good thing for developing a countries' player base if those players' talent level is slightly better than the current average talent level of the league. It will help to bring the level of everyone up a notch. Take any sport and look at the top league in the world in that sport. It's not confined to one nationality. That would be ridiculous/suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortdutchcanuck Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert said: So let me ask you one questions. Just how "for Canadians, by Canadians" is good enough for you. 1 Canadian out of 11 players? 2 Canadians out of 11 players? 3 Canadians out of 11 players? 4 Canadians out of 11 players? 5 Canadians out of 11 players? 6 Canadians out of 11 players? 7 Canadians out of 11 players? 8 Canadians out of 11 players? 9 Canadians out of 11 players? 10 Canadians out of 11 players? 11 Canadians out of 11 players? 6 of 11 is a good start as the league takes stock of where our talent pool stands. I would be fine with that expanding to 7 in coming years along with an extra guaranteed Canadian bench spot. But personally I enjoy the international flavour of the sport and wouldn't want to see any tighter restrictions than that. 26 minutes ago, CanSuffer said: A minority of foreigners in a national league can be a very good thing for developing a countries' player base if those players' talent level is slightly better than the current average talent level of the league. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 22 minutes ago, CanSuffer said: A minority of foreigners in a national league can be a very good thing for developing a countries' player base if those players' talent level is slightly better than the current average talent level of the league. It will help to bring the level of everyone up a notch. Take any sport and look at the top league in the world in that sport. It's not confined to one nationality. That would be ridiculous/suicide. I agree 100% with your assessment that having a minority of foreigners playing in the CPL can be a very good thing for developing Canadian talent, if these foreigners are the right class of players such as you have described. However, with nearly one million unemployed registered soccer players in Canada, I do feel that the emphasis should remain on hiring Canadians players! https://www.canadasoccer.com/about-s14644 "There are nearly 1,000,000 registered Canada Soccer active participants in Canada within 1,200 clubs that operate in 13 provincial/territorial member associations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said: 6 of 11 is a good start as the league takes stock of where our talent pool stands. I would be fine with that expanding to 7 in coming years along with an extra guaranteed Canadian bench spot. But personally I enjoy the international flavour of the sport and wouldn't want to see any tighter restrictions than that. This. So your not really telling me that if I was the owner of a CPL club, you would have no objections to me signing Joey Hot-dog-eater, from But-fuck, Tennessee, instead of your son or grandson, just because you personally enjoy international flavours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Robert said: There are some Voyageurs on this board are so fucking desperate for any kind of league, that they wouldn't care if there were no Canadians players at all. None have said how many Canadians they would like to see on the field. Name one, dickhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 56 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said: Name one, dickhead. BBTB? Joking but not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Robert said: I agree 100% with your assessment that having a minority of foreigners playing in the CPL can be a very good thing for developing Canadian talent, if these foreigners are the right class of players such as you have described. However, with nearly one million unemployed registered soccer players in Canada, I do feel that the emphasis should remain on hiring Canadians players! https://www.canadasoccer.com/about-s14644 "There are nearly 1,000,000 registered Canada Soccer active participants in Canada within 1,200 clubs that operate in 13 provincial/territorial member associations." That has to be the most misleading statement I have seen in a long time. How you make the connection from 1mil registered "participants" to 1mil unemployed soccer players is the snake river canyon of logic leaps. You can make your point (more jobs for CDN players/which I agree with) without using a completely BS argument. I thought you had been making a a lot of sense for awhile on this thread, dont muck it up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2SKI Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Bison44 said: That has to be the most misleading statement I have seen in a long time. How you make the connection from 1mil registered "participants" to 1mil unemployed soccer players is the snake river canyon of logic leaps. You can make your point (more jobs for CDN players/which I agree with) without using a completely BS argument. I thought you had been making a a lot of sense for awhile on this thread, dont muck it up now. If I want to play soccer, I should damn well be paid to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 Although the following article is a couple of years old, it still interesting to see how many Canadians were under contract with MLS clubs during the 2015-16 season. That year there were a total of 25 Canadians collecting paycheques in the 20-team MLS, or 1.25 Canadian player per club. There were only 5 Canadian players collecting a paycheque with the 17 American MLS clubs, or 0.3 Canadian player per club. So why would any CPL club have more than 1 American player on its roster? Is it because Canadian clubs are so polite? https://www.wakingthered.com/2015/7/17/8993727/more-canadians-than-ever-before-on-mls-payrolls-cyle-larin-will-johnson-jonathan-osorio Team Last First Position Base Salary Guarenteed Compensation DAL Akindele Tesho F $70,000.00 $87,500.00 KC de Jong Marcel D $180,000.00 $191,500.00 MTL Bekker Kyle M $61,765.00 $88,015.00 MTL Bernier Patrice F-M $90,000.00 $135,000.00 MTL Crepeau Maxime GK $60,000.00 $60,000.00 MTL Gagnon-Lapare Jeremy M $60,000.00 $64,000.00 MTL Jackson-Hamel Anthony F $60,000.00 $60,000.00 MTL Tissot Maxim D $60,000.00 $60,000.00 ORL Larin Cyle F $125,000.00 $167,000.00 POR Johnson Will F $314,000.00 $334,333.33 TOR Aparicio Manuel M $60,000.00 $60,000.00 TOR Chapman Jay M $70,000.00 $88,500.00 TOR Hamilton Jordan F $63,000.00 $75,500.00 TOR Mannella Chris M $60,000.00 $60,000.00 TOR Morgan Ashtone D $100,000.00 $112,000.00 TOR Osorio Jonathan M $145,000.00 $152,599.68 TOR Roberts Quillan GK $60,000.00 $60,000.00 VAN Adekugbe Samuel D $60,000.00 $65,000.00 VAN Bustos Marcos M $50,000.00 $54,850.00 VAN Carducci Marco GK $60,000.00 $60,000.00 VAN Clarke Caleb F $60,000.00 $60,000.00 VAN Froese Kianz M-F $60,000.00 $64,500.00 VAN McKendry Ben M $50,000.00 $50,000.00 VAN Teibert Russell M $100,000.00 $167,500.00 NY Ouimette Karl D $60,000.00 $60,000.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 How do you consistently come up with the most ridiculous questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 47 minutes ago, RS said: How do you consistently come up with the most ridiculous questions? Why is it Canadian men can't play soccer? Or aside from hockey, any other team sport for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ams1984 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 11 hours ago, Robert said: Why is it Canadian men can't play soccer? Or aside from hockey, any other team sport for that matter? Aren’t we good at Curling too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 13 hours ago, Robert said: Why is it Canadian men can't play soccer? Or aside from hockey, any other team sport for that matter? Yeah, that Steve Nash guy never stood a chance in the NBA. Larry Walker was a bit rubbish at baseball, too. No chance Mark Rypien would ever win the Super Bowl, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Personally, I thought that they would only play upwards of 3 Canadians as starters, so I'm perfectly happy with 6 Canadian starters. My understanding of this league is to develop players for the national team. If the CMNT is looking for 23 players for a World Cup, then they would have a player pool of 42 starters from the CPL alone next year. If the CPL grows to 16 teams by 2026, then that starter pool grows to 96 players. That's a lot of competition for 23 spots , not even including those Canadians playing in other leagues around the world. Everyone is going to have to earn their spot, which is how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 22 hours ago, SthMelbRed said: Yeah, that Steve Nash guy never stood a chance in the NBA. Larry Walker was a bit rubbish at baseball, too. No chance Mark Rypien would ever win the Super Bowl, either. Normally this dickhead doesn't respond to your kind, but since you outed yourself I'm willing to making an exception. 1) Yes, Mark Rypien was born in Calgary. However, as a 3-year old his family moved to the United States and he has lived there ever since. Does this qualify him a Canadian? 2) Is so, where does that leave Steve Nash, who was born Johannesburg, South Africa. However, as an 18-month old his family moved to Regina.. Does this qualify him a Canadian? Anyway, while your busy figuring out an intelligent reply, lets look at dickhead's questions question again: " Why is it Canadian men can't play soccer? Or aside from hockey, any other team sport for that matter?" Note the use of the words "men" and "team." Neither imply an individual athlete. 3) For this point, let's just stick to soccer and two of the sports you picked, baseball and basketball, as the football they play in the NFL doesn't really have a major international competition. If we look at the Olympic and all the medal winning countries in those three sports for men, we see that it has been 115 years since a Canadian men's team has won an Olympic medal. That happened way back in 1904, When Canada won a gold medal in soccer, in an Olympic tournament that only feature two countries: Canada and the United States. So again I ask the questions that no one has been able to come up with any answers to: " Why is it Canadian men can't play soccer? Or aside from hockey, any other team sport for that matter?" Olympic Soccer: Year Hosts Gold Medal Game Bronze Medal Game Gold Score Silver Bronze Score Fourth Place 1896 Athens No football tournament 1900 Details Paris Great Britain(Upton Park F.C.) [25] France(USFSA XI) Belgium(ULB) [25] Only three teams entered 1904 Details St. Louis Canada(Galt F.C.) [26] United States(Christian Brothers College) United States(St. Rose Parish) [26] Only three teams entered 1908 Details London Great Britain 2 – 0 Denmark Netherlands 2 – 0 Sweden 1912 Details Stockholm Great Britain 4 – 2 Denmark Netherlands 9 – 0 Finland 1920 Details Antwerp Belgium [27] Spain Netherlands [27] France 1924 Details Paris Uruguay 3 – 0 Switzerland Sweden 1 – 1 aet Netherlands Match replay: 3 – 1 1928 Details Amsterdam Uruguay 1 – 1 aet Argentina Italy 11 – 3 Egypt Match replay: 2 – 1 1932 Los Angeles No football tournament 1936 Details Berlin Italy 2 – 1 aet Austria Norway 3 – 2 Poland 1948 Details London Sweden 3 – 1 Yugoslavia Denmark 5 – 3 Great Britain 1952 Details Helsinki Hungary 2 – 0 Yugoslavia Sweden 2 – 0 Germany 1956 Details Melbourne Soviet Union 1 – 0 Yugoslavia Bulgaria 3 – 0 India 1960 Details Rome Yugoslavia 3 – 1 Denmark Hungary 2 – 1 Italy 1964 Details Tokyo Hungary 2 – 1 Czechoslovakia Germany[19] 3 – 1 United Arab Republic 1968 Details Mexico City Hungary 4 – 1 Bulgaria Japan 2 – 0 Mexico 1972 Details Munich Poland 2 – 1 Hungary East Germany Soviet Union 2 – 2[28] aet 1976 Details Montreal East Germany 3 – 1 Poland Soviet Union 2 – 0 Brazil 1980 Details Moscow Czechoslovakia 1 – 0 East Germany Soviet Union 2 – 0 Yugoslavia 1984 Details Los Angeles France 2 – 0 Brazil Yugoslavia 2 – 1 Italy 1988 Details Seoul Soviet Union 2 – 1 aet Brazil West Germany 3 – 0 Italy 1992 Details Barcelona Spain 3 – 2 Poland Ghana 1 – 0 Australia 1996 Details Atlanta Nigeria 3 – 2 Argentina Brazil 5 – 0 Portugal 2000 Details Sydney Cameroon 2 – 2 asdet Spain Chile 2 – 0 United States 5 – 3 on penalty shootout 2004 Details Athens Argentina 1 – 0 Paraguay Italy 1 – 0 Iraq 2008 Details Beijing Argentina 1 – 0 Nigeria Brazil 3 – 0 Belgium 2012 Details London Mexico 2 − 1 Brazil South Korea 2 − 0 Japan 2016 Details Rio de Janeiro Brazil 1 – 1 aet Germany Nigeria 3 − 2 Honduras 5 – 4 on penalty shootout 2020 Details Tokyo Olympic Baseball: Year Hosts Gold Medal Game Bronze Medal Game Gold Score Silver Bronze Score Fourth Place 1992Details Barcelona Cuba 11–1 Chinese Taipei Japan 8–3 United States 1996Details Atlanta Cuba 13–9 Japan United States 10–3 Nicaragua 2000Details Sydney United States 4–0 Cuba South Korea 3–1 Japan 2004Details Athens Cuba 6–2 Australia Japan 11–2 Canada 2008Details Beijing South Korea 3–2 Cuba United States 8–4 Japan 2012 2016 Not included in the Olympic program 2020Details Tokyo Olympic Basketball: Year Hosts Gold Medal Game Bronze Medal Game Gold Score Silver Bronze Score Fourth Place 1936Details Berlin United States 19–8 Canada Mexico 26–12 Poland 1948Details London United States 65–21 France Brazil 52–47 Mexico 1952Details Helsinki United States 36–25 Soviet Union Uruguay 68–59 Argentina 1956Details Melbourne United States 89–55 Soviet Union Uruguay 71–62 France 1960Details Rome United States No playoffs Soviet Union Brazil No playoffs Italy 1964Details Tokyo United States 73–59 Soviet Union Brazil 76–60 Puerto Rico 1968Details Mexico City United States 65–50 Yugoslavia Soviet Union 70–53 Brazil 1972Details Munich Soviet Union 51–50 United States Cuba 66–65 Italy 1976Details Montreal United States 95–74 Yugoslavia Soviet Union 100–72 Canada 1980Details Moscow Yugoslavia 86–77 Italy Soviet Union 117–94 Spain 1984Details Los Angeles United States 96–65 Spain Yugoslavia 88–82 Canada 1988Details Seoul Soviet Union 76–63 Yugoslavia United States 78–49 Australia 1992Details Barcelona United States 117–85 Croatia Lithuania 82–78 Unified Team 1996Details Atlanta United States 95–69 Yugoslavia Lithuania 80–74 Australia 2000Details Sydney United States 85–75 France Lithuania 89–71 Australia 2004Details Athens Argentina 84–69 Italy United States 104–96 Lithuania 2008 Details Beijing United States 118–107 Spain Argentina 87–75 Lithuania 2012Details London United States 107–100 Spain Russia 81–77 Argentina 2016Details Rio United States 96–66 Serbia Spain 89–88 Australia 2020Details Tokyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 In my opinion, the above does relate to the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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