Montreal Area CPL Team

[Tigers]

6 hours ago, KW519 said:

It may not have Québec, but it will mot likely have a location which is still important for fans. Cavalry and Forge will be the only clubs in the Canadian Championship this year without a location in their club name. So the trend is very much to name a club after a city or area. There's every chance we see that with the new club in Québec

Huh?

Pacific -  ocean, not a place

Cavalry - no

FC Edmonton -  yes

Valour - after the street? No like it's Valour Road FC, they took the name from the story more than the place I would think 

Forge - no 

York9 - yes

HFX Wanderers -  yes? Are people saying it as Halifax or H-F-X when they say it out loud? 

3.5 out of 7 is not "very much a trend", especially when using a place IS a default most places. 

[garmc]

In my experience people tend to verbalize "Halifax" and not "H-F-X". It's often even written as Halifax in local media.

[Ansem]

6 hours ago, Keegan said:

Naming it Quebec would be an awful move imo. We are talking about having 3+ teams in the province - it would be ill advised to let the first team take the province name and I don’t care if that’s what locals call the city.. still a bad idea.  

We want lasting rivalries that are ingrained in culture.  I want at least one of the Quebec teams to be hyper French - like a Quebec version of PFC.  I want an Ottawa v Gatineau rivalry .. the potential is massive.  

Within the province, people differentiate city from province. Everyone would know that we're talking about "Quebec City". I'm just saying that the name has a drawing power outside of Montreal Metro and Gatineau area that no investor would ignore.

At the end of the day, we just want all team to succeed and if Quebec becomes one of the league's top club, we'll all be happy for it

[KW519]

1 hour ago, Tigers said:

Huh?

Pacific -  ocean, not a place

Cavalry - no

FC Edmonton -  yes

Valour - after the street? No like it's Valour Road FC, they took the name from the story more than the place I would think 

Forge - no 

York9 - yes

HFX Wanderers -  yes? Are people saying it as Halifax or H-F-X when they say it out loud? 

3.5 out of 7 is not "very much a trend", especially when using a place IS a default most places. 

Last I checked Valour Rd and the Pacific Ocean are locations...what's with the pointless rant?

[longlugan]

35 minutes ago, KW519 said:

Last I checked Valour Rd and the Pacific Ocean are locations...what's with the pointless rant?

I don't see it as a pointless rant...actually I mostly agree with him...what's with the pointless rebuttal?

[KW519]

35 minutes ago, longlugan said:

I don't see it as a pointless rant...actually I mostly agree with him...what's with the pointless rebuttal?

He went through all that to basically say the Pacific Ocean isn't a location. Could have just said he doesn't think the Pacific Ocean is a location and left it at that. Is that what you agree with? The rest is pointless because it's essentially backing what i'm saying

[Tigers]

26 minutes ago, KW519 said:

He went through all that to basically say the Pacific Ocean isn't a location. Could have just said he doesn't think the Pacific Ocean is a location and left it at that. Is that what you agree with? The rest is pointless because it's essentially backing what i'm saying

I'm saying the opposite of you. You say that the current names point to it more likely being named after a  place.

I'm saying that the current team names make it seem more likely that it won't be a location, but some other local reference. 

[Cheeta]

Academic discussion.  Kinda interesting one.  But having difficulty separating "location" from "local reference".  Two sides of the same coin, no?   

One day there will be a team in Saskatchewan and I'll guarantee it's not going to have Pacific as a nickname.  

I very much doubt there's ever going to be any confusion about which CPL franchise is being discussed when we're referring to "Valour".  The one from Winnipeg or the one from .....

And I instantly think Hamilton when you say Forge.  Maybe it's because the Wee Elf is a hard rock miner's daughter.  Or maybe it's my age showing.  But Hamilton to me is smelters, foundries, smoke stacks & steel workers.  Always will be.

So like I wrote, not sure how you divorce location from local reference just because local reference may not be so local at all. 

Not nit-picking.  Just saying whilst I am anxiously waiting on the Quebec (provincial boundary) franchises.

   

 

[fmfranck]

On 1/23/2019 at 2:22 PM, longlugan said:

Wow...and now you've insulted Alex Bunbury too...do you have any limits douchebag?

He's right, unfortunately. I follow him on twitter and I'm rooting for a CPL team in Greater Montréal (or Montréal proper), Québec and Gatineau, but no one in the mainstream media is talking about it. Only a few hardcore fans know about it. He did a podcast with Kan FC from what I remember, but thats hardly spreading the news to the masses. Also, the more I think about it, the more a team in Laval is the wrong way to go about it. Laval is as suburbia as you can get. And I mean that in the worst way possible. It's the butt of jokes here in Montréal. A bit like newfies are for the rest of Canada. Having the league associated with Laval is not a good idea if we want it to be taken seriously in the province of Québec. If the team were to be located in Laval, in no way should the name of the team have anything to do with its location. I still think CEPSUM is the best way to go for a Montréal team. But regardless of where the team will end up being at, CPL needs someone would can get the local corporate community behind this project. IMFC just his a homerun by hiring Kevin Gilmore as president this past week. He will easily siphon all corporate support for the Impact now. Bunbury (as much as I like him) will be eaten alive if he goes about this project solo. He needs people with business "know-how" and, like has been stated in this thread, someone with a voice in this community (local "star" or ex-politician (like the Impact did with Legendre)). 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, fmfranck said:

He's right, unfortunately. I follow him on twitter and I'm rooting for a CPL team in Greater Montréal (or Montréal proper), Québec and Gatineau, but no one in the mainstream media is talking about it. Only a few hardcore fans know about it. He did a podcast with Kan FC from what I remember, but thats hardly spreading the news to the masses.

Local journalists are extremely loyal to Montreal Impact having dealt with journalists trying to convince them to put out CPL content in French.

However, as long as there's no official announcement of a team in Quebec, forget about it, I was told. Their bosses aren't going to be interested unless there's something official to report. It's not against Alex specifically.

1 hour ago, fmfranck said:

Also, the more I think about it, the more a team in Laval is the wrong way to go about it. Laval is as suburbia as you can get. And I mean that in the worst way possible. It's the butt of jokes here in Montréal. A bit like newfies are for the rest of Canada. Having the league associated with Laval is not a good idea if we want it to be taken seriously in the province of Québec.

"Tout le monde se perd à Laval"? Guilty, I still get lost when I drive there lol. 

However, if they target Laval and Couronne Nord with proper marketing, they are looking at potentially close to 1M people. Also, the corporate presence is huge in the region, best to court them now.

Targetting Montreal Island would be a huge mistake but Impact isn't doing great outside it's borders either, to the clubs own admission. The best time to pull it off is now like York 9 are doing.

1 hour ago, fmfranck said:

If the team were to be located in Laval, in no way should the name of the team have anything to do with its location.

Perhaps... what name would be inclusive to Laval and the outer suburbs?

1 hour ago, fmfranck said:

I still think CEPSUM is the best way to go for a Montréal team. But regardless of where the team will end up being at, CPL needs someone would can get the local corporate community behind this project. IMFC just his a homerun by hiring Kevin Gilmore as president this past week. He will easily siphon all corporate support for the Impact now.

I'd like a Montreal in CPL II from CEPSUM like Paris FC in Ligue 2. There's plenty of corporations to go around in the Montreal Metro. Also, the fact that CPL is coast to coast will help attract those who do business in multiple provinces as well.

1 hour ago, fmfranck said:

Bunbury (as much as I like him) will be eaten alive if he goes about this project solo. He needs people with business "know-how" and, like has been stated in this thread, someone with a voice in this community (local "star" or ex-politician (like the Impact did with Legendre)). 

He made it clear that he wasn't alone for this project. He's the face of the bid for now but I think he knows what he's doing since he's part of a Portugal club ownership. The more the merrier!

Edited January 26, 2019 by Ansem

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The Impact are clearly the PSG equivalent, if you are going to use Paris as an analogy. A Laval team in CanPL would be a US Creteil-Lusitanos type outfit from the outer suburbs and there's nothing wrong with being that. There need to be multiple teams in Quebec between PLSQ semi-pro level and the Impact, if pro soccer is going to really blossom in the years ahead.

 

[Ansem]

40 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The Impact are clearly the PSG equivalent, if you are going to use Paris as an analogy. A Laval team in CanPL would be a US Creteil-Lusitanos type outfit from the outer suburbs and there's nothing wrong with being that. There need to be multiple teams in Quebec between PLSQ semi-pro level and the Impact, if pro soccer is going to really blossom in the years ahead.

 

Wasn't an invitation to antagonize

[RS]

23 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Wasn't an invitation to antagonize

Who's antagonizing?

[Impactsupporter]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Perhaps... what name would be inclusive to Laval and the outer suburbs?

Likely Rive Nord FC  similar to North Shore Sabrecats in the QJFL

http://qjfl.ca/team/?id=3

Just a thought.

Still prefer Rapides FC that's just me.

 

[fmfranck]

22 hours ago, Ansem said:

Local journalists are extremely loyal to Montreal Impact having dealt with journalists trying to convince them to put out CPL content in French.

1. However, as long as there's no official announcement of a team in Quebec, forget about it, I was told. Their bosses aren't going to be interested unless there's something official to report. It's not against Alex specifically.

"Tout le monde se perd à Laval"? Guilty, I still get lost when I drive there lol. 

However, if they target Laval and Couronne Nord with proper marketing, they are looking at potentially close to 1M people. Also, the corporate presence is huge in the region, best to court them now.

2. Targetting Montreal Island would be a huge mistake but Impact isn't doing great outside it's borders either, to the clubs own admission. The best time to pull it off is now like York 9 are doing.

3. Perhaps... what name would be inclusive to Laval and the outer suburbs?

I'd like a Montreal in CPL II from CEPSUM like Paris FC in Ligue 2. There's plenty of corporations to go around in the Montreal Metro. Also, the fact that CPL is coast to coast will help attract those who do business in multiple provinces as well.

4. He made it clear that he wasn't alone for this project. He's the face of the bid for now but I think he knows what he's doing since he's part of a Portugal club ownership. The more the merrier!

3

1. Whilst that might be true, I still think that Bunbury is an unknown in Québec and to get his message across he'll need a bit of help. Again, I'm not saying this because I like to bash on the man. I really love what he's doing, and his motivations behind it. If Laval (450k) is not solely francophone, the north "shore" pretty much is. In fact, Laval is about 2/3 francophone, and the north shore is close to 100%. That means that close to 75% of your core base is francophone, and your main spokesperson would be a non-francophone. That is not ideal to create a buzz. Again, its nothing personnal against Bunbury, its just the context in which he operates.

2. 

• Impact's failure to reach beyond the Montréal Island: I think this is a myth. I lived in Québec for a while, and we used to be a gang of supporters shuttling to Montréal for games. I know many supporters from the suburbs as well. Whilst its true that there is room for other clubs in Québec imo, that room is available pretty much everywhere. For sure IMFC will be hard to dislodge in Montréal, but in no way is this impossible. West Islanders and even "central islanders" don't necessarily want to go all the way east to watch games and in some ways, a club more "central" would be more identifiable to them as being "Montréal's" club.
• I think settling for the suburbs is a show of lack of ambition. York is different imo. It's the original name for Toronto. Its easy to identify with it. Whilst Laval has some prestige elsewhere, in Montréal its a recent name given to the amalgamation of villages on Jesus Island. Its associated with dull and boring suburbia and has little history to it. People want to be associated with something glorious, and accessible.
• Accessibility: The location in Laval is 2km walking distance from the closest metro station. Not ideal for accessibility. (contrary to Cepsum which would be served by the metro network at its doorstep AND the brand new REM light rail train network). 
• Setting: The stadium in Laval is smack in the middle of suburban sprawl. It wouldnt be that exciting to get there and enjoy the scenery. At least Saputo is in the Olympic area. It has the incredible Tour de Montréal in its backdrop and the jardin botannique and other installations nearby.  A stadium at Cepsum would have a breathtaking view of Mont-Royal and have places to go pre and post game for a brew in Outremont or Côte-des-Neiges.

3. Notwithstanding all these points, I would still be in favour to a project in Laval. A name that is usually synonymous with the Laval and north shore region is Mille Iles. In english "Islanders" wouldve been suiting, but the name must be easily translatable in french obviously. It could also be something associated to the name of the island "Jésus", like Saints. That isnt incredibly inclusive I guess. There isnt much else that is proper to Laval or the north shore im afraid. It could something more generic like "Impact" I suppose.

4. He JUST purchased that 3rd division portuguese team. I really doubt that we can base ourselves on this very brief experience to say with certainty that he has the know how to launch a professional team for the following reasons : 

1. He didn't launch that club. It already existed, with a name, identity and stadium. 
2. That club is semi-professional. It plays in a 1,000 seat stadium.
3. The jury is still out on him as an owner.

[Ansem]

34 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

1. Whilst that might be true, I still think that Bunbury is an unknown in Québec and to get his message across he'll need a bit of help. Again, I'm not saying this because I like to bash on the man. I really love what he's doing, and his motivations behind it. If Laval (450k) is not solely francophone, the north "shore" pretty much is. In fact, Laval is about 2/3 francophone, and the north shore is close to 100%. That means that close to 75% of your core base is francophone, and your main spokesperson would be a non-francophone. That is not ideal to create a buzz. Again, its nothing personnal against Bunbury, its just the context in which he operates.

I agree here. Hope he gets a Francophone spokesperson for sure and I think he knows that too.

34 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

Impact's failure to reach beyond the Montréal Island: I think this is a myth. I lived in Québec for a while, and we used to be a gang of supporters shuttling to Montréal for games. I know many supporters from the suburbs as well. Whilst its true that there is room for other clubs in Québec imo, that room is available pretty much everywhere. For sure IMFC will be hard to dislodge in Montréal, but in no way is this impossible. West Islanders and even "central islanders" don't necessarily want to go all the way east to watch games and in some ways, a club more "central" would be more identifiable to them as being "Montréal's" club.

It's not my opinion regarding the team's reach into the regions. Saputo himself said that they had to be better and the new president made it his mandate to improve there. I'm not saying that they have zero support in the region but it's clearly insufficient in the club's point of view.

34 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

I think settling for the suburbs is a show of lack of ambition. York is different imo. It's the original name for Toronto. Its easy to identify with it. Whilst Laval has some prestige elsewhere, in Montréal its a recent name given to the amalgamation of villages on Jesus Island. Its associated with dull and boring suburbia and has little history to it. People want to be associated with something glorious, and accessible.

It shouldn't matter if they aren't targetting Montreal first whether it's prestigious or not. Laval has amalgamated since the 70s and the "Laval" identity is there... way stronger than York Region in my opinion

About accessibility, I'd like both teams down the road Besides, most people drive in Laval.

47 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

He JUST purchased that 3rd division portuguese team. I really doubt that we can base ourselves on this very brief experience to say with certainty that he has the know how to launch a professional team for the following reasons : 

1. He didn't launch that club. It already existed, with a name, identity and stadium. 
2. That club is semi-professional. It plays in a 1,000 seat stadium.
3. The jury is still out on him as an owner.

To be fair, he was part of a group that purchase a team, he's most likely consulting on his Laval project and local investors whoever they are. He's certainly not the lone mastermind of it but initiator 

[fmfranck]

We're not gonna agree on regional support, site accessibility or the Laval identity it seems. For the rest, I hope a Laval franchise is successful and I will support it however I can.

[shamrock]

I don't know a lot about the situation in Montreal, but just like I think it was better in BC to go for Victoria over suburban Vancouver (Surrey), I think Quebec would be a much better place for a new team than suburban Montreal (Laval). Better to be a big fish in a little pond than a small fish in a big pond. They'd always be second to Whitecaps / Impact FC IMO. 

[Copes]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:25 PM, fmfranck said:

It's the butt of jokes here in Montréal. A bit like newfies are for the rest of Canada. Having the league associated with Laval is not a good idea if we want it to be taken seriously in the province of Québec. 

Just going to poke my head in to drop a quick "Fuck you, bud" and then leave again. 

Carry on.

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 hours ago, fmfranck said:

We're not gonna agree on regional support, site accessibility or the Laval identity it seems. For the rest, I hope a Laval franchise is successful and I will support it however I can.

I liked your long post, as it was well made and full of excellent observations. I realise we have to be demanding about what they are coming up with. 

Still, you should remember that Bunbury is involved in a process, and you need to dialogue, and there are many stakeholders involved. Strictly speaking, which of the current new CPL franchises is in the ideal location, with the best name, with no problems of the sort you are referring to? I'd say maybe Winnipeg and Hamilton only, the rest have a lot of problems you could point to, but are moving forward. 

The challenge of another team in greater Montreal is a big one, but could end up creating a very interesting sports precedent for the city. 

[fmfranck]

38 minutes ago, Copes said:

Just going to poke my head in to drop a quick "Fuck you, bud" and then leave again. 

 Carry on.

Lol, saying newfies are the butt of jokes isnt the same as saying they "should" be the butt of jokes.  

[deschamp86]

Pretty sure every province is the butt of jokes to another province. And those that aren't, well that may be the joke in itself

[fmfranck]

20 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I liked your long post, as it was well made and full of excellent observations. I realise we have to be demanding about what they are coming up with. 

Still, you should remember that Bunbury is involved in a process, and you need to dialogue, and there are many stakeholders involved. Strictly speaking, which of the current new CPL franchises is in the ideal location, with the best name, with no problems of the sort you are referring to? I'd say maybe Winnipeg and Hamilton only, the rest have a lot of problems you could point to, but are moving forward. 

The challenge of another team in greater Montreal is a big one, but could end up creating a very interesting sports precedent for the city. 

That is true. Obviously, I'm making these observations for what would be the best possible "Montreal area" club. But as we say in french "le meilleur est l'ennemi du bon" (perfect is the enemy of good). Better to have an un-perfect project happen now or soon, than to try unsuccessfully to put in place a "perfect" club. As an owner, obviously you want to put yourself in the best possible position to be successful and recuperate your investment, but you can't have a no-risk investment. 

Also, I'm making these observations as an outsider with little information to what Bunbury is planning. Who knows, maybe CEPSUM wouldn't be open to having a professional team setup there. There's a lot of information that I don't have. I'll just say that, as a Montrealer, and former laval-er, I really don't want to go to the proposed stadium location in Laval. For north shore residents, its sort of a hassle too, as it isn't close to any highways as well. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, fmfranck said:

That is true. Obviously, I'm making these observations for what would be the best possible "Montreal area" club. But as we say in french "le meilleur est l'ennemi du bon" (perfect is the enemy of good). Better to have an un-perfect project happen now or soon, than to try unsuccessfully to put in place a "perfect" club. As an owner, obviously you want to put yourself in the best possible position to be successful and recuperate your investment, but you can't have a no-risk investment. 

Also, I'm making these observations as an outsider with little information to what Bunbury is planning. Who knows, maybe CEPSUM wouldn't be open to having a professional team setup there. There's a lot of information that I don't have. I'll just say that, as a Montrealer, and former laval-er, I really don't want to go to the proposed stadium location in Laval. For north shore residents, its sort of a hassle too, as it isn't close to any highways as well. 

So here is a question I'd ask, as a McGill alumni who even played in the stadium in interleague way back when: why couldn't a team go downtown? Would that be seen as a direct challenge to Impact and an encroachment on their turf? Does CFL have too much to say there?

I agree with many here that the CPL should be doing all communications and social media in French, to give any project in Québec a fighting chance. Otherwise, apart from looking lazy and careless, they are not being serious about being a bona fide CPL.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, deschamp86 said:

Pretty sure every province is the butt of jokes to another province. And those that aren't, well that may be the joke in itself

I'd like to hear of any inter-Maritime jokes, out of pure curiosity. 

By the age of 18 I had been to every Canadian province and have since worked in the Yukon. And as a west-coaster, going to Newfoundland and talking to people was very enlightening, I learnt a lot. The way I see it, there should be some sort of national program to encourage young Canadians to visit the rest of the country and learn, the overall ignorance is sometimes dissappointing.

And I am a hard-core supporter of the right of good comedians to make jokes about pretty well anything.