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TFC 2018-2019 Off-season


Gian-Luca

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9 hours ago, 1996 said:

What is the MLS pretending to be? It’s selling players expecially younger players if a big team comes calling see Davies and now Almiron and Tyler Adams aswell . Sid for a guy who thinks he knows soccer by this rant makes me wonder if he really does expecially the North American one. MLS is a selling league, where players can play at a good level and if they become really good like a Davies or Almiron will be sold to one of the big leagues in Europe. You will start seeing expecially South American players come to MLS instead of the Dutch  or say the Belgian league and play in the MLS  for a few years before hopefully signing with one of the top leagues in Europe Garber has mentioned this himself, so don’t know where this pretending that Sid is talking about is coming from. Why no major European team was willing to pay him the money the Saudia Arabia league is going to pay him? Well he just turned 32 and unless your name is Ronaldo not too many players will be signing over 11 million dollar US a season for three seasons in a top European league. He also mentions Rooney coming to the MLS and doing well last season and saying he was basically crap in England for the past three season. He was not as crap as Sid says Rooney was the last three seasons he was there . Therefore , maybe Sid needs to think a little more before he opens his mouth because he does not come out looking to good with that rant.

Yeah, that was one of the parts I disagreed with for sure.

10 goals for Everton in his last EPL season.

That's a down year for a player like Wayne Rooney, but 10 goals in the Premier League is not crap. 

Someone should ask Sid what his thoughts are on Thomaz Radzinski.

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Yeah, that was one of the parts I disagreed with for sure.

10 goals for Everton in his last EPL season.

That's a down year for a player like Wayne Rooney, but 10 goals in the Premier League is not crap. 

Someone should ask Sid what his thoughts are on Thomaz Radzinski.

I'm too lazy to check, but I'm pretty sure nearly all of Rooney's 10 goals in that season were penalties.

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16 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Sorry, but that whole video comes across to me like a giant strawman argument. He seems to be debunking the theory that MLS is on the same level as the top "elite" European leagues, but I haven't actually seen anyone actually make this claim to begin with. I'm also not sure why 3 Canadian teams not making the playoffs is bad for the league (may not be great for Canadian players or growing the sport tv ratings wise in Canada, but does it really hurt the league as a whole?). And the Alphonso Davies being an outlier....and same with Tyler Adams, and same with Chris Richards and same with Almiron.......it was starting to remind me of John Cleese as the leader of the Jewish Underground in Life of Brian ie "Well all right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?" If you list four examples which all occurred recently and then call them all "outliers", it just looks unintentionally hilarious.

Sorry, normally I like Sid's soccer rants but I think he's largely out to lunch on this one.

I've made a similar argument here about delusion about value amongst TFC supporters, at least many posting here, and the denial is constant and naive. 

Not about Gio so much, because if you want to pay that huge difference, and you get two great seasons out of it, then you could argue it's worth it. Winning a championship is a strong argument.

Still, you could ask about the logic in paying a guy 30-40% more than his real market value, what are you trying to prove? Would Gio at 2 million a year less have played worse?

But I am more concerned about players like Osorio, who had ZERO confirmed offers from Europe and garners no serious interest from any team of any worth in Europe. When he was in fact low paid in overall squad terms. I mean, someone could have offered TFC a million and a half transfer, and then paid him half a million euros for 3 years, plus bonuses, and done deal. There wasn''t even that. 

TFC paid de Guzman at least double what any European offers might have been, likely more than double. Why, what was the point? 

In any case, I do agree that TFC should have kept him another season, or tried, since he will likely be impossible to replace. I think, in fact, they should look for a different kind of player entirely, just to steer clear of direct comparisons.

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13 hours ago, Rocket Robin said:

Bradley, Altidore, Bono, Morrow, Delgado, and now Boyd!  That's six so far.   

They all count as 'domestics' in the MLS so will they try to fill their squad with all US national team players?  

 Mr Gam and Mr Tam will push all the Canadians off the team except Osorio.  

Whoops I forgot Ayo Akinola who was born in Brampton and grew up in Michigan and has earned caps for the US U-20s...so it's actually seven!  

 

It would seem, unfortunately, that the number of Canadians on the team is not an issue with most Toronto FC fans. They love watching their foreign heros play in a foreign league.

And MLS roster rules don’t require the Canadian teams to dress ANY Canadians.

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8 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

It would seem, unfortunately, that the number of Canadians on the team is not an issue with most Toronto FC fans. They love watching their foreign heros play in a foreign league.

This is exactly the same for the other MLS clubs in Canada, but TFC gets the most flack for it because the team also has American management.

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I've made a similar argument here about delusion about value amongst TFC supporters, at least many posting here, and the denial is constant and naive.

Denial of what, in particular? I don't recall TFC fans en masse saying MLS is on par with the top European leagues, which is the strawman argument emerging from that Sid Sexeiro rant that I am referring to. And I don't recall any fans on this board claiming that Osorio had offers from any top clubs or leagues in Europe either (although a pretty decent club in South America was confirmed to be interested in him FWIW). The club said he had interest from Europe, which is a pretty big place and I don't recall that they ever specified one of the top 4 or 5 leagues there.

However, what's apparent with all of the many so-called "outliers" of the last few months is that most people would call that many recent examples an emerging trend rather than hopelessly arguing that all of these examples for some reason don't count - that way leads towards being on a par with the People's Front of Judea  (or was it the Judean People's Front - I can never remember). There was very nearly another one with Lucio Acosta almost winding up at PSG by all accounts to the point that the player flew to Paris with the intention of completing the deal (something that Sixeiro would have been better off talking about this news coming out of DC than whining about Wayne Rooney but it didn't fit the anti-MLS narrative he wanted to rant about so he ignored it - or was just ignorant about it in the first place, neither of which makes him look good). In the last few months there have been two record transfers out of MLS (Davies record was just broken by Almiron) along with two others transfers that all went to one of the top 4 leagues (1 to EPL, 3 to Bundesliga). It all suggests that the top leagues are looking at MLS more to acquire emerging/younger talent than they have been before. Giovinco isn't in that category now that he's turned 32. Is MLS pretending that this is not the case? Who knows, because we still haven't received an answer to the question of the claim of what MLS is pretending to be that was made here.

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35 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

It would seem, unfortunately, that the number of Canadians on the team is not an issue with most Toronto FC fans. They love watching their foreign heros play in a foreign league.

And MLS roster rules don’t require the Canadian teams to dress ANY Canadians.

And a Toronto Star headline today about baseball is:  

'Making a pitch to patriotism'  

'As Bautista bat-flip ball auction ends, consignor hopes it stays in Canada'.  

………………………..……………………………………………………………………………………………...

Canadian sports history from a guy from Dominican Republic.

 

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41 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

It would seem, unfortunately, that the number of Canadians on the team is not an issue with most Toronto FC fans. They love watching their foreign heros play in a foreign league.

And MLS roster rules don’t require the Canadian teams to dress ANY Canadians.

Actually they like watching foreign and domestic players play in a domestic league, assuming that the players are good. Most TFC fans don't view MLS as a "foreign league" any more than the view the NHL as such. And there is a certain amount of pride for TFC fans when the local kids do well and prove themselves, though it's a double-edged sword because there are some that are harsher on them (at least until they score 17 goals in a single season) because its wrongly assumed they are there for can-con reasons.

Not sure what all of the complaining about at the moment is re: Canadian players on TFC. Last year they gave lots of minutes to Canadian players and in the biggest matches they played as well - 4 Canadians in the CCL semi-final match at Azteca (in a series where the eventual series winning and insurance markers were scored by Canadian players) and followed that up with playing 4 in the final in Guadalajara (all 4 of which are young enough to be involved in WCQ this next go round). They've got Osorio, Morgan, Chapman, Telfer and Fraser (all developed to some extent by the club), re-signed Hamilton when half the fans on this forum were clamouring for him to be cut and now have promoted Okello, another player they have developed. I expect all 7 will get significant minutes with the first team this season (not sure about Daniels & Dunn but technically they are also first-team players). What exactly is the problem here now, that its not 100% Canadians on the roster? That there are too many Americans and not enough Europeans/South Americans/Africans/Asians? That we should have kept Ricketts and dumped Altidore instead?

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23 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Most TFC fans don't view MLS as a "foreign league" any more than the view the NHL as such. 

This is because Canadian sports fans, especially those in southern Ontario, tend to be heavily Americanized. We think of it as normal for our best Canadian professional sports teams to play in foreign leagues (MLS, NHL, NBA, MLB). In almost all other countries in the world, the best sports teams play in their own domestic league.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

This is because Canadian sports fans, especially those in southern Ontario, tend to be heavily Americanized. We think of it as normal for our best Canadian professional sports teams to play in foreign leagues (MLS, NHL, NBA, MLB). In almost all other countries in the world, the best sports teams play in their own domestic league.

 

 

It isnt a ontario thing.  But at least you guys had teams in american leagues to cheer for.  As a kid on the praires we cheered for american baseball, B-ball, hockey teams etc as they were as foreign to us as toronto is.  At least there is a chance we can have our own team now and wont be shoe horned into a TFC serfdom because they are the only game in town.  

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21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

....As a kid on the praires we cheered for american baseball, B-ball, hockey teams etc as they were as foreign to us as toronto is....

Understandable enough given the geography but then CFL fans from out west act all surprised and indignant when almost nobody in the GTA cares about CFL games against their teams any more and the Argos are playing second fiddle to a soccer team. It's a two way street. If the NHL could be sold out to the yankee dollar almost a century ago, it's not obvious why soccer has to apologize in some way for using MLS to become one of the major spectator sports in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.

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I've been posting on the site for almost 5 years, and lurking for 2-3 more, and this is the first time I am tempted to block someone.  What are u talking about?? What CFL fans care if TFC is more popular than the argos in toronto??  You are a wizard at taking part of what someone said and use it to justify some axe you have to grind. 

In soccer come spring, I dont have to swallow all the american BS from MLS anymore just to have a supposed CDN soccer team to cheer for if I dont want to.  But why am I even trying to talk to you?  

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Imagine if Hoilett was the DP? Lol

I might take him over Jozy at this point. He’s younger and certainly performed better in the premier league. 

I hope Ali just offered JOzy/Bradley a TAM deal on their contract extensions. Jozy is too injury prone and Bradley was pretty bad last year and is what 32? When you can only have three DPs they shouldn’t use one on an older declining DM.  

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10 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

I might take him over Jozy at this point. He’s younger and certainly performed better in the premier league. 

I hope Ali just offered JOzy/Bradley a TAM deal on their contract extensions. Jozy is too injury prone and Bradley was pretty bad last year and is what 32? When you can only have three DPs they shouldn’t use one on an older declining DM.  

Agreed. Though the worry I have with Bradley is that he's an American legend with a high profile. If Toronto don't give him a DP contract, someone stateside will. I am sure any of the Expansion Teams would be happy to bring him in as a DP.

I would love for Bradley to be ours on a TAM, but ultimately I think he leaves if he's no longer a DP.

Considering how integral he is at the club, I would be happy to see him remain on a low-end DP. I can see him extending and staying on for $2M ish. 

At the same time, Bradley moving on would continue to usher in the new generation at TFC. It would give Liam Fraser minutes, and of course there'd be an extra DP spot.

 

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19 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Lucas Cavallini was the player that had crossed my mind as a possible DP target for TFC, if a CMNT player was going to be involved. 

The wording that has been used to describe the DP they are looking at doesn't seem to fit Cavallini though. Unless he is one of a few targets they are looking at.

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30 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Agreed. Though the worry I have with Bradley is that he's an American legend with a high profile. If Toronto don't give him a DP contract, someone stateside will. I am sure any of the Expansion Teams would be happy to bring him in as a DP.

I would love for Bradley to be ours on a TAM, but ultimately I think he leaves if he's no longer a DP.

Considering how integral he is at the club, I would be happy to see him remain on a low-end DP. I can see him extending and staying on for $2M ish. 

At the same time, Bradley moving on would continue to usher in the new generation at TFC. It would give Liam Fraser minutes, and of course there'd be an extra DP spot.

 

The problem is you cant just waste away a DP spot on someone who isn’t worth it especially at 32+ years old. If there was no cap, then sure keep him around. What is the going rate for a solid DM in MLS? 700k? Less? 

I would probably spend my DP money on a striker, winger and creative mid. 

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43 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

The problem is you cant just waste away a DP spot on someone who isn’t worth it especially at 32+ years old. If there was no cap, then sure keep him around. What is the going rate for a solid DM in MLS? 700k? Less? 

I would probably spend my DP money on a striker, winger and creative mid. 

“Isn’t worth it” is subjective and thus a matter of opinion. If Toronto deem him to be worth it, than he is.

There are other attributes, such as leadership, which go for a premium, but of course every situation is different and every club has more or less of a need. When we generalize and look at what other teams are paying for that position, we can lose sight of some of the intangibles that make a player like Bradley valuable.

Or put another way, if Bradley was not a DCM he would still be the same leader and character with the same desire to win. That’s what you get with Bradley, but that gets forgotten when you look at it from your angle, though I do see your point and understand how you can have that opinion.

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5 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Not sure what all of the complaining about at the moment is re: Canadian players on TFC. Last year they gave lots of minutes to Canadian players and in the biggest matches they played as well - 4 Canadians in the CCL semi-final match at Azteca (in a series where the eventual series winning and insurance markers were scored by Canadian players) and followed that up with playing 4 in the final in Guadalajara (all 4 of which are young enough to be involved in WCQ this next go round). They've got Osorio, Morgan, Chapman, Telfer and Fraser (all developed to some extent by the club), re-signed Hamilton when half the fans on this forum were clamouring for him to be cut and now have promoted Okello, another player they have developed. I expect all 7 will get significant minutes with the first team this season (not sure about Daniels & Dunn but technically they are also first-team players). What exactly is the problem here now, that its not 100% Canadians on the roster? That there are too many Americans and not enough Europeans/South Americans/Africans/Asians? That we should have kept Ricketts and dumped Altidore instead?

Still TFC has more American nationals than Canadians.  

A big reason for more Canadian minutes last year was TFC had to use almost a split squad playing weekends in MLS and Wednesdays in CCL for so long.  

Listen to who answers first my question around the 36 minute mark at the TFC fan forum before their game against Vancouver....  I asked that more GAM and TAM (which had recently been announced a few weeks before this October 6th game) was pushing the Canadian players further down the list--down to one starter--Osorio.  It was Gareth Wheeler who was the MC.   

http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports18/18tfc045.htm   

Not Bill Manning nor Tim B--(Tim B who over the years was very supportive and convinced me that the results of TFC II in USL were unimportant in the long term for developing players that I truly bought in).   Their answer was building up the Academy. (although I've been hearing that since 2008).  

It was Canadian Wheeler cutting me off with "Do you want to win or do you want to see Canadians play?"  Wheeler is the voice of TFC II on their broadcasts so nice pissing on 90% young Canadians on that team.  I'm sure he'll still be there accepting a paycheque this season.  

I figures BBTN would 'like' your post.  I've always found him pro-American.  I don't want to look back in the archives three years ago when he was able to solve Canada's soccer problems by saying that we should just have more Canadian USL teams with a strict minimum of (two?) starters on each team.  "We don't need a Canadian league!"  

I bet the first rain storm that limits a CPL crowd to less than 3000 BBTB will scream "failure' and 'the novelty has worn off'.    

For me in 2019, I'm all in for York 9 (that's instead of TFC after 12 years of never missing a game including some replays played the next day) but hope to still have time to hit 50+ League 1 Ontario matches (that's supplying more than half the York 9 and Forge rosters so far) and TFC II again with their almost all Canadian lineup.    

 

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