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Possible CPL Salary Cap Discussion

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I think a salary cap is fine, and probably necessary in a fledgling league, but like you say there is no need to have every financial detail public. This is something the CFL gets mostly right: it's a capped league with no DPs but we're not inundated with a bunch of cap geek style punditry that is a big part of NBA, NHL and NFL coverage.

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17 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The CPL chiefs would be wise to recognize their competitive advantage to MLS.  CPL has a chance to differentiate and to be organic.  If we start using MLS rules people may as well support MLS.

So you're saying it's a competitive advantage to differentiate ourselves from MLS by copying traditional leagues? Why?  

I would honestly prefer if the league moved away from a salary cap and a avoided a DP rule. I think they make for a much less honest competition. But having different roster regulations from MLS is not the reason that Canadians should support this league. We should support the league because it's ours and because of the leagues commitment to Canadian players, coaches, fans, cities...

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Posted (edited)

Every business in the world has a salary cap. It's called a budget. I like the idea of each team having a budget that they determine and enforce based on their reality. As a fan I don't want to know what it is, I dont want to hear about it 

I haven't heard a single person say I can't get in to the CPL because they haven't communicated to me a salary cap. How am I suppose to have fun at the match if I don't know what the salary cap is?

Edited by SpursFlu

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5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Every business in the world has a salary cap. It's called a budget. I like the idea of each team having a budget that they determine and enforce based on their reality. As a fan I don't want to know what it is, I dont want to hear about it 

That's the major difference though. A budget is determined by the success of the club and by internal decisions on how to spend available funds. Those things have no effect in a salary capped league, so you end up with a bunch of clones that rely on each other for survival. It's difficult to build a rivalry when you need your opponent to succeed just as much as you need to succeed 

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20 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Every business in the world has a salary cap. It's called a budget. I like the idea of each team having a budget that they determine and enforce based on their reality. As a fan I don't want to know what it is, I dont want to hear about it 

I haven't heard a single person say I can't get in to the CPL because they haven't communicated to me a salary cap. How am I suppose to have fun at the match if I don't know what the salary cap is?

But as sports geeks we are inundated with it.  Especially soccer where you dont normally trade players.  You can sell them to a team across the globe and dollar figures are attached to everyone.Years ago we would say Guy Lafleur isnt worth Mike bossy, now we know exactly what players are worth and how much the team pays let alone what the wages are.  

12 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

That's the major difference though. A budget is determined by the success of the club and by internal decisions on how to spend available funds. Those things have no effect in a salary capped league, so you end up with a bunch of clones that rely on each other for survival. It's difficult to build a rivalry when you need your opponent to succeed just as much as you need to succeed 

Every league relies on the other teams for survival.  Check the new club thread, people are advocating no franchise fee because it might scare off or hurt expansion teams.  Try bringing in investors if some teams are spending 5-10mil on wages and some are spending 1mil. Out of control spending trying to win can kill a league in no time flat.    

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12 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Check the new club thread, people are advocating no franchise fee because it might scare off or hurt expansion teams.  Try bringing in investors if some teams are spending 5-10mil on wages and some are spending 1mil. 

Sorry, I really don't follow this reasoning. You don't often have teams declining promotion, despite having to face teams with a much higher budget. Yet there are hundreds of teams in the states that don't compete in the MLS because they can't afford to buy their way into the league. I completely agree that out of control spending can sink a team, but nobody is advocating for that

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5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

What do you think no cap is going to do?  Promote fiscal responsibility?  

I imagine there might be one or two examples in world football of clubs managing their own finances

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

But as sports geeks we are inundated with it.  Especially soccer where you dont normally trade players.  You can sell them to a team across the globe and dollar figures are attached to everyone.Years ago we would say Guy Lafleur isnt worth Mike bossy, now we know exactly what players are worth and how much the team pays let alone what the wages are.  

Every league relies on the other teams for survival.  Check the new club thread, people are advocating no franchise fee because it might scare off or hurt expansion teams.  Try bringing in investors if some teams are spending 5-10mil on wages and some are spending 1mil. Out of control spending trying to win can kill a league in no time flat.    

I'm not advocating zero information regarding player salary so people can't play along at home. I'm also not for a wild west winner takes all capitalistic model. I think the salary cap is so low, why make it a big deal. Detractors will just use the small number as a way to denigrate the league. I also don't like a team creating far more revenue than another having to play by the same same rules. Especially with the nature of football being that we are competing on all levels with the rest of the world not just CPL. At a certain point teams need to be making their own decisions on cost. What if Forge make champions league? They're suppose to spend the same on players as York9. How does this benefit the league? Just say the cap is 800k. They could bring in just say Simeon Jackson and a quality Central American but they can't because their salary would be at 825k. How is that good for the league? How is that a smart business decision? I just think you need some flexibility

Edited by SpursFlu

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14 hours ago, fil said:

Instead of bringing a DP rule, would prefer to see the league help in some way the bottom feeding teams (Valour/Pacific) to increase competitiveness.

Ouch! I think, "bottom feeding" is a bit harsh for the first season of operations. ;)

All PFC really need to  be competitive is an increase to the salary cap, or at least a rule that allows us to not count Marcel's salary while he is out injured long-term.

If we could bring in one or two players to cover for his absence we would be more competitive. It's not like we are getting blown out every game. We are showing our youth and naivete on the back line and a solid, veteran defender would make a huge difference.

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2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

So you're saying it's a competitive advantage to differentiate ourselves from MLS by copying traditional leagues? Why?  

I would honestly prefer if the league moved away from a salary cap and a avoided a DP rule. I think they make for a much less honest competition. But having different roster regulations from MLS is not the reason that Canadians should support this league. We should support the league because it's ours and because of the leagues commitment to Canadian players, coaches, fans, cities...

Because traditionalists represent a significant segment of the football supporter market in Canada.  There are even American supporters turned on to our league for this reason.  

MLS comparatively to the whole football support in Canada attracts a very small segment.  If you go after that same segment you’re going to lose.

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Posted (edited)

My personal opinion is that if you're thinking of allowing DPs, might as well jack up the salary cap so teams can build more even and deeper teams.

We're seeing what having to manage the Canadian Championship and CONCACAF league does to those rosters. Just having 1 DP doesn't do much, especially if that player gets hurt...you're back to square one...

Instead of a DP just increase the cap to $2.5 or $3 millions instead and let the teams capable of spending do so. Those who can't will live within their means...I believe that's the whole point of "screening ownership". Making sure you get the ones who are fiscally responsible and will manage within their mean without going bankrupt because they went after Giroud or something

Edited by Ansem

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I agree. There is talk of doing away with the dp rules in MLS because its turned in to a farce. It's just an accounting Olympics for the front office but there is not a lot stoping teams from doing whatever they like as long as they jump thru a bunch of silly hoops. 

If you say CPL you can spend an extra 1 million on 1 player. Why not just say you can spend 1 million more on 4 players? The only difference is 1 million on 4 players would make for a much better league

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Yup. Don’t want to see a DP rule. Just increase the cap in general. If a team wants to spend all that increase on a “star player” so be it. If another team spends it on 3 depth players so be it. If a team doesn’t spend it at all so be it.

 

Let the management groups figure out what is best for their own clubs. 

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I like the idea of a salary cap. I think it is a good way to keep all teams competitive and also save them from themselves in case they are tempted to spend beyond their means in search of glory.

Canada does not have a large football pyramid where "have not" clubs can find their level. Which means there is a danger that perennial losers in CPL would be abandoned by their fan base and simply fold. CPL cannot afford to let that happen, at least not until it has a LOT more clubs.

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In retrospect...

-Forge having won a round in CONCACAF League, played a round in VCup plus dealing with league games

-Cavalry having played the most games in VCup and league games while coming up short against Montreal missing (Browne, Camargo, Northover, Ledgerwood, Waterman)

-York9 being so close of upsetting Montreal

You have to think that some ownership will look at this and think that a few extra quality pieces could have got them over the edge. 

What do you think happens?

A) The league & teams stay the course with whatever cap raise they had planned

B)Owners pushes the league to raise the cap substantially and the league says yes

C)Owners pushes the league to raise the cap significantly and the league meets them halfway

D)The league stays the course frustrating teams in their cap demands.

E)The league sees a window to grab the V Cup and make deep runs in CONCACAF League sooner than expected and introduce Designated Players + Cap increase

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I think that without Pro-Rel, you need a cap to prevent some owners from screwing the pooch on acquisitions. With no cap if one team spends itself into an untenable situation, they'll get relegated to the next division where they can rebuild their finances. With no lower division safety net then that team would go under, introducing instability into the professional pyramid.

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Not sure how in the loop Gattas should be assumed to be given he needed a translator to do an interview on Onesoccer recently. If they are adding a marquee player next season to use the Australian rather than the MLS terminology, it's probably as it has been elsewhere part of a compromise between the owners who want a low cap and those who want to be able to splurge a bit.

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I think that the owners must think that a marquee signing will bring in more spectators. I think they are wrong, what fans want are a good stadium relatively close to a lively part of town, a good game atmosphere, decent to good results, some connection to local players--a DP at this level, especially, where you are probably not going to ever get anyone with a higher profile that De Jong or Edgar, really makes little sense.

For me it is just owners not analyzing properly why they don't get more fans out, not doing all they can to get them out, and then jumping onto a "quick" solution. But hey, it is easier to throw 200 thousand at a player than spend a quarter of that on youth club or family marketing. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure how in the loop Gattas should be assumed to be given he needed a translator to do an interview on Onesoccer recently. If they are adding a marquee player next season to use the Australian rather than the MLS terminology, it's probably as it has been elsewhere part of a compromise between the owners who want a low cap and those who want to be able to splurge a bit.

I think precisely because he has an agent filling him in on things, because he does not understand, that maybe he is hearing more. Also, he likely was not told or did not understand that he probably should not have made those statements, probably the most revealing comments by a player about the league all year.

PS he's a nice player, good signing for the league.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think that the owners must think that a marquee signing will bring in more spectators. I think they are wrong, what fans want are a good stadium relatively close to a lively part of town, a good game atmosphere, decent to good results, some connection to local players--a DP at this level, especially, where you are probably not going to ever get anyone with a higher profile that De Jong or Edgar, really makes little sense.

For me it is just owners not analyzing properly why they don't get more fans out, not doing all they can to get them out, and then jumping onto a "quick" solution. But hey, it is easier to throw 200 thousand at a player than spend a quarter of that on youth club or family marketing. 

I respect your opinion, but just to play devil's advocate, the DP rule was an undoubted success in MLS. If they see what the DP rule did for MLS, they could see it as a very simple way to boost spectators and fan interest.

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Given the ticket prices, some of which are bordering on insane, I think the attendance this season has been wildly successful. Immediately behind Forge are Odense BK on the world first division attendance ranking per Transfermarkt. FM estimates their payroll to be $6.9m CAD. Their most expensive season ticket looks to be about $300 CAD, barely more than the cheapest Forge seat!

The league should be focused on non-gate revenues. If they need a $1m a year player to land a $2-3m per year shirt sponsor, then I guess I'll take it. Realistically, I'd like to see the squads expanded to 27-28, have a minimum that's a living wage, and have enough budget to bring home the Stanese, Zanatta, Straith's of the world. I think this could be done for about 1.5m.

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think that the owners must think that a marquee signing will bring in more spectators. I think they are wrong, what fans want are a good stadium relatively close to a lively part of town, a good game atmosphere, decent to good results, some connection to local players--a DP at this level, especially, where you are probably not going to ever get anyone with a higher profile that De Jong or Edgar, really makes little sense.

For me it is just owners not analyzing properly why they don't get more fans out, not doing all they can to get them out, and then jumping onto a "quick" solution. But hey, it is easier to throw 200 thousand at a player than spend a quarter of that on youth club or family marketing. 

Nailed it.  Mostly.

Stadia are really outside of most clubs control. Practically and financially.  If Valour weren't playing out of IGF there wouldn't be a Valour so, with that example,  you just have to take the good with the bad.   New markets may find themselves in similar circumstances.  

It wouldn't hurt to maybe work a little harder with what you've got, working to adapt it into more of a footie experience, even if it means spending some money.  Or not spending money..  Could be something as simple as not trying to recreate a CFL or NHL experience for the soccer crowd or the more complicated effort of reaching out to the local footie community.  

 

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On 8/14/2019 at 3:37 PM, Reign said:

Yup. Don’t want to see a DP rule. Just increase the cap in general. If a team wants to spend all that increase on a “star player” so be it. If another team spends it on 3 depth players so be it. If a team doesn’t spend it at all so be it.

 

Let the management groups figure out what is best for their own clubs. 

^^^This...  so far I don think the lack of "big names" has hurt the league at all, except maybe with some hardcores that were dreaming about getting favs to their hometown (cough cough forlan).  Let the cap and the league grow organically.  The more exemptions, DP, TAM GAM etc, the less playing time for younger players and you choke off any good you were doing developing your own CDN stars.  

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