Gold Cup 2019

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

 Moreover,  Trap and Delgado vs Piette and Mak pretty close but to say in a heartbeat you will take Piette and Mak of course you will just for the fact they are Canadians and nothing else really.

This right here says a lot about Canada versus the US.

Both pairs are more less equal, but we are much more dependent on Piette and MAK than the Americans are on Trapp and Delgado.

Those two could be missing and it'd be business as usual for the USMNT

If we are missing both MAK and Piette, we are suddenly very short on defensive midfield options. Hutchinson and an unproven Liam Fraser, that's it.

And I suppose Tiebert, but far less options for Canada still.

Adams, Makiennie, Roldan, Bradly (still), Nagbe, etc...

Edited November 21, 2018 by Obinna

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, kacbru said:

And how exactly have we done against any serious A or B team lately?

We tied Costa Rica in the Gold Cup (No David, Hutchinson, Millar, Tabla, ZBG). Defeated by Mexico in WCQ.(No Davies)

The point of this discussion is that we got better while the US got weaker.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This right here says a lot about Canada versus the US.

Both pairs are more less equal, but we are much more dependent on Piette and MAK than the Americans are on Trapp and Delgado.

Those two could be missing and it'd be business as usual for the USMNT

If we are missing both MAK and Piette, we are suddenly very short on defensive midfield options. Hutchinson and an unproven Liam Fraser, that's it.

It's no secret that the US has depth that we don't have just yet. Don't forget about Tiebert though

Edited November 21, 2018 by Ansem

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We're not comparing records and past records. Just the rosters as of today and seriously, it's not looking good for them.

What is it about Canada's roster as of today that makes you think that we are superior to the U.S.? Was it the way we dominated St. Kitts? Oh wait, that didn't happen.

The US is going through a generational change, just like we are. They have a ton of promising youngsters tied to big European clubs, just like us.

They lost to England and Italy. We barely beat St. Kitts.

Like I said, I like our chances now more than any point over the past several years, but I'm not ready to declare them dead until we see what the new coach can do and a full squad together (which hasn't happened at all over the past 12 months for them).

[PhillyJawn-guy]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Those two could be missing and it'd be business as usual for the USMNT

You know Trapp has been the de facto captain, right? And the best American strikers are Altidore and Bobby Wood, both has proven to have difficulty scoring in a top level league.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

It's no secret that the US has depth that we don't have just yet

I am excited that we can match them 11 vs. 11 though. I honestly believe that. 

This is the most talented starting 11 we have ever had in the time I have been following this team. And it is a young starting 11 as well. You gotta love it.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

You know Trapp has been the de facto captain, right? And the best American strikers are Altidore and Bobby Wood, both has proven to have difficulty scoring in a top level league.

He has, but under a lot of criticism. I read a lot of comments from Americans complaining that Trapp is in the team. He is 25 now and has only won 10 caps, and to me it doesn't quite feel like he'll a big part of that team in the future, with Adams and Weston seemingly pegged to get the majority of starts moving forward.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

You know Trapp has been the de facto captain, right? And the best American strikers are Altidore and Bobby Wood, both has proven to have difficulty scoring in a top level league.

Altidore and Wood I think are on par with Larin and Cavallini talent wise, but Altidore and Wood have so much more experience. Still though, I think we give the Americans problems with Cavallini, and Larin will find the net again, some day.

[SpursFlu]

All I said was this. Project out our 11 v US 11 in 7 months at the Gold Cup, include Ferreira because that addresses our biggest need. I cant see how anyone wouldnt think we have a legitimate chance of beating them. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by SpursFlu

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, RS said:

What is it about Canada's roster as of today that makes you think that we are superior to the U.S.? Was it the way we dominated St. Kitts? Oh wait, that didn't happen.

The US is going through a generational change, just like we are. They have a ton of promising youngsters tied to big European clubs, just like us.

They lost to England and Italy. We barely beat St. Kitts.

Like I said, I like our chances now more than any point over the past several years, but I'm not ready to declare them dead until we see what the new coach can do and a full squad together (which hasn't happened at all over the past 12 months for them).

I think we have a better offense, sounder midfield. They are better defensively than us but we have the better keeper.

They have more depth than we do.

Healthy A squad vs US A Squad could go either way.

If we're missing pieces we're in trouble. 

All I'm saying us that they aren't "unbeatable" anymore. Last WCQ showed how unafraid other teams were of them with the like of Trinidad, Honduras and Panama...let alone Costa Rica who crushed them.

Yet we're the only ones here still preaching that we can't win... so Canadian I guess. If Trinidad B team beat their absolute A squad, why can't we?

[PhillyJawn-guy]

Altidore flopped at Sunderland with 1 GOAL IN 40 MATCHES. If a Canadian failed that badly there would be outrage, right? And Wood was on a relegated club last season, and he might again be on a relegated one this season.

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, RS said:

We're less than a year removed from Michael Petrasso and Fraser Aird being our top two right backs despite neither actually being a right back. A younger RB with experience in La Liga (albeit limited) would absolutely be in the discussion, IMO.

The past is the past. Today he'd be in the same place as Petrasso, which is out on the sidelines. Barring injury to both ZBG and Godino, and perhaps even Cordova, Petrasso and Aird are out of the team. And Moore would be as well.

Until he re-joins his club from loan and passes the eye test, I will remain unimpressed.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Obinna

[PhillyJawn-guy]

Actually with all this Canada vs US at the GC talk it's possible that Canada might not even face them throughout the tournament and still get further. The US from their current form could crash the group stage. Remember in 2015 if Dempsey didn't play the US wouldn't have won a game.

[RS]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I think we have a better offense, sounder midfield. They are better defensively than us but we have the better keeper.

They have more depth than we do.

Healthy A squad vs US A Squad could go either way.

If we're missing pieces we're in trouble. 

All I'm saying us that they aren't "unbeatable" anymore. Last WCQ showed how unafraid other teams were of them with the like of Trinidad, Honduras and Panama...let alone Costa Rica who crushed them.

Yet we're the only ones here still preaching that we can't win... so Canadian I guess. If Trinidad B team beat their absolute A squad, why can't we?

I've said repeatedly in this thread that I like our chances against them right now. That doesn't mean we're better than them, though. Because we're not until we prove it over a sustained period.

Just now, Obinna said:

The past is the past. Today he'd be in the same place as Petrasso, which is out on the sidelines. Until he re-joins his club from loan and passes the eye test, I will remain unimpressed.

My point is that the Canadian backline is an injury or two away from absolute disaster, and it's hardly impressive as it is at the moment.

I'm very high on our front 6, especially given that there are legitimately 9 or 10 options for those spots. The back 4 however...

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Actually with all this Canada vs US at the GC talk it's possible that Canada might not even face them throughout the tournament and still get further. The US from their current form could crash the group stage. Remember in 2015 if Dempsey didn't play the US wouldn't have won a game.

That sounds ridiculous, but there is no 3rd place spot now.

That's still extremely unlikely though, even for as much as they've recently struggled.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

And Canadians need to stop thinking that you're minnows because you guys are clearly not. From an American here, I envy the Canadian team and admire what the CSA has accomplished and actually having a vision and plan. For next year's GC you have to mess up really bad to be worse than the US. So whether you guys beat the US or not, Canada will still be the better team and have superior talent. So let's put this to rest.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That sounds ridiculous, but there is no 3rd place spot now.

That's still extremely unlikely though, even for as much as they've recently struggled.

In 2015 the US had the fewest shots on goal in the group stage of all 12 teams, including Canada and Cuba. Only Dempsey created scoring chances.

[Aird25]

Aird is having himself a brilliant season btw. Albeit, as a midfielder, in the Scottish Championship.

[kacbru]

27 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We tied Costa Rica in the Gold Cup (No David, Hutchinson, Millar, Tabla, ZBG). Defeated by Mexico in WCQ.(No Davies)

The point of this discussion is that we got better while the US got weaker.

I thought the point of this discussion was the debate that we were now better than the US.

The best team we've beaten since last WCQ was Jamaica, in a friendly, but we lost to them when it actually mattered in the Gold Cup.  Have you forgotten that we lost to El Salvador on neutral ground last year?  This year alone, the US has beaten Paraguay, Bolivia and Mexico.  They play world cup teams, we play Caribbean Minnows.

Are we improving?  Definitely.  Is the US on a decline? Sure.  But to suggest we are even approaching par, show me the evidence.   

[red card]

The US success since 94 didn't start on having good talent. The teams played better than the sum of their parts. Players often played better for the US than their club team. They played with high motors and coaches had them play with a purpose. 

Then they got some better talent, a deeper pool of players and combined with above made them challengers to Mexico for CONCACAF supremacy for a while. In the last WC cycle till now, the talent level and the pool of prime age group players has dropped off. There is a large group of young talent coming up but other than CP, they haven't shown anything of note at the national team level. But what has been surprising has been the drop off in playing better than the sum of their parts. 

So even if Canada can match the US in talent, we still don't have their deeper pool of players and most importantly, Canada hasn't shown yet we can play better than the sum of the parts. Many of our players underperform at their clubs but they even play worse at the national team level. This is Herdman's biggest challenge but it is also where his strength lies.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

Also to add to that the US team in the early 90's most of the players didn't have full time club contracts so they needed stellar NT performances to get clubs to sign them. Today's team and even for the last cycle everyone is contracted to a club where they get most of their wages so the NT doesn't matter that much anymore. So you get players giving half-assed efforts just so they can get a cap.

[Obinna]

46 minutes ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Altidore flopped at Sunderland with 1 GOAL IN 40 MATCHES. If a Canadian failed that badly there would be outrage, right? And Wood was on a relegated club last season, and he might again be on a relegated one this season.

I think Altidore could have done better with another club in a top 5 league, but for whatever reason, it just didn't happen for him at Sunderland. That doesn't mean he's a bad striker. You don't score +40 goals internationally by being a bad striker.

Wood reminds me of Simeon Jackson -  got some chances at the highest level in his mid twenties, before settling in the second divisions and lower. I can see that happening to Bobby Wood. I think a bottom of the table Bundesliga side is the absolute highest he could hope for.

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Also to add to that the US team in the early 90's most of the players didn't have full time club contracts so they needed stellar NT performances to get clubs to sign them. Today's team and even for the last cycle everyone is contracted to a club where they get most of their wages so the NT doesn't matter that much anymore. So you get players giving half-assed efforts just so they can get a cap.

I think the US has lost it's identity.

It use to be the gritty team that fought tooth and nail to hang with the big teams and show the world Americans can play.

Now there is an aire of snobbery and expectancy amongst the fanbase, perhaps bore out from the success of MLS? I don't know what it is exactly, but it's as if they see themselves as a regional superpower on par with Mexico. In many ways, they are, but it's that attitude that undercuts their underdog mentality. That's where they lost their identity.

Interestingly, the fans always criticize the team for being too soft, not hustling and not fighting for everything.

Yet that same mentality, that expectancy that the results will come easy, is reflected in their fanbase.

Coincidence? 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Obinna

[Obinna]

56 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Aird is having himself a brilliant season btw. Albeit, as a midfielder, in the Scottish Championship.

Where he belongs, midfield

I am happy about the run of form he is on. 

It will be hard for him to get selected ahead of Davies, Tabla, David and Millar, but I do wish him the best of luck. He's a nice piece for Canada in his own right. I fully believe Aird can come in at any point for us and put in a good shift.

It's great to have those players when the squad wears thin during WCQ. Plus he's still only 23, even though it feels like he's been around forever. He's got at least two full cycles ahead of him.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Obinna

[SkuseisLoose]

Maybe the CSA should arrange a friendly with the USA before the Gold Cup or in march. Would help us figure out where we are right now as a team.