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Gold Cup 2019


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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I'm with you on the MAK at left back thing, but David hasn't done anything to suggest he's a defensive liability, which is how your comment came off to me. Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't love that Kaye is projected as the starting LB, but it is what it is. I would rather he play in the midfield, but he is a better player than Adekugbe at that spot, so I get it.

As for David, I don't see him switching to CAM at this point. 

Since I'm up watching Raptors...you can't play all your best attackers at once. A normal team has 3-4 real goal scoring threats, and I don't get this business of people wanting 6 on the field. In any case, David is young and for me is not an automatic starter, there has to be a certain hierarchy, not just in quality but also in sense of responsibility. Let the veterans get the job done and then work the kids in so they are not asked to do the dirty work quite yet. 

As I see it.

He has a home and away playoff next week to see who goes to the early Europa League rounds, which is another biitch for him: he ends season late, goes to GC, and the team is going to have to start early to get ready for Europa League if they make it.

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1 hour ago, Mikmacdo said:

Is it though? I’d say its pretty even and the Erevidise is definitely better than Liga MX. Imagine what Ajax would do to Mexican teams. 

People use to rank the Eredivisie above the Jupiler Pro league, but things have flipped in recent years. Now obviously Ajax (and PSV for that matter) have had an outstanding season, which may sway people back again, but all of this is splitting hairs in my opinion. Belgium and Netherlands are, have been, and will continue to be roughly equivalent for the foreseeable future.

Liga MX is a league with much more parity, so it's hard to compare it with those two European leagues, but I think for all intents and purposes the level is similar.  

I know transfer market isn't the be-all, end-all, but here are some values from each league:

Average value per player:

Netherlands: 2.22 Million Euros

Belgium: 1.58 Million Euros

Mexico: 1.47 Million Euros 

Average value per team:

Netherlands: 60.1 Million Euros

Belgium: 43.2 Million Euros

Mexico: 39.6 Million Euros 

And for fun.....

MLS per team = 23.5 Million Euros

MLS per player = 0.872 Million Euros

By the way, Belgium is ranked 8th by UEFA and Netherlands is ranked 11th, so make of that what you will... 

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Since I'm up watching Raptors...you can't play all your best attackers at once. A normal team has 3-4 real goal scoring threats, and I don't get this business of people wanting 6 on the field. In any case, David is young and for me is not an automatic starter, there has to be a certain hierarchy, not just in quality but also in sense of responsibility. Let the veterans get the job done and then work the kids in so they are not asked to do the dirty work quite yet. 

As I see it.

He has a home and away playoff next week to see who goes to the early Europa League rounds, which is another biitch for him: he ends season late, goes to GC, and the team is going to have to start early to get ready for Europa League if they make it.

David's season is finished, his team failed to qualify for anything.

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6 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

David's season is finished, his team failed to qualify for anything.

Well I had thought that they had a playoff vs. the B playoff winner, having come in 5th, but now I see that is not the case, you are right--it is the 4th place team, Antwerp.  I don't know why it shows on many Belgian league tables that fifth place is Europa league playoff position.

However, there is still a Europa League chance for Gent, as the cup winner Mechelen, that beat them in the final, is accused of match-fixing last year and the case is still open. If the accusation holds, then Gent gets their Europa League spot.

I hope I am not screwing that up too.

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well I had thought that they had a playoff vs. the B playoff winner, having come in 5th, but now I see that is not the case, you are right--it is the 4th place team, Antwerp.  I don't know why it shows on many Belgian league tables that fifth place is Europa league playoff position.

However, there is still a Europa League chance for Gent, as the cup winner Mechelen, that beat them in the final, is accused of match-fixing last year and the case is still open. If the accusation holds, then Gent gets their Europa League spot.

I hope I am not screwing that up too.

Typically it would be the 5th place team if a top 4 team won the Cup.  However, Gent lost to a 2nd division team this year in the final.  You would probably be right that the spot would pass to Gent if Mechelen is convicted.

Edited by CanadaFan123
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Posting this link here because there is discussion in the article about Canada's Gold Cup selections and Herdman's methodology basically confirming what we had speculated about the TFC players who weren't called:

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2019/05/24/toronto-fc-rejuvenated-quakes-clash-gold-cup-horizon

“With Canada we had been in conversations about who they might select, what roles guys might play in that, what that means for our team and what roles they might play if they're not with [Canada],” began Vanney. “We all want to see some of these young players really advance and become viable options for both club and country, so if they're going to play for us, but go and be the eighth man on the bench for them, then it's better if they stay.”

“John [Herdman, Canadian National Team Coach] has been amazing in our conversations about that,” continued Vanney. “We're all on the same page. But then you get some young guys who can learn from the experience of being there, so that's an important piece for them.”

One may have expected the likes of Jay Chapman, Liam Fraser, and Jordan Hamilton to get attention from Canada and Marky Delgado and Alex Bono to be listed for the US, but as Vanney noted: “It doesn't mean he's not in the pool.”

“It probably means he's a very important player for us in during this stretch and maybe not the first or second guy for them. And so if he stays here, it means he's going to play a big role for us, which is good for his development and his future,” expanded Vanney, referring specifically to Chapman. “That's how the discussions work. John has been very understanding because we have the potential to be pretty decimated if they take everybody.”

I guess you can look at it in two ways - one that Herdman is doing the wise thing in working with and having good relationships with the club team managers. The flipside is that we're not necessarily naming the our best squad for the sake of doing favours to the club teams. I'm more inclined to view it the former way than the latter, in part because I think Herdman has far more depth to choose from than say, the likes of Holger Osieck did back in the day. And the Canadian MLS clubs are always likely (for the foreseeable future) to be relied upon for supplying players to the national teams for relations with the clubs are not unimportant.

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27 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

 

I guess you can look at it in two ways - one that Herdman is doing the wise thing in working with and having good relationships with the club team managers. The flipside is that we're not necessarily naming the our best squad for the sake of doing favours to the club teams. I'm more inclined to view it the former way than the latter, in part because I think Herdman has far more depth to choose from than say, the likes of Holger Osieck did back in the day. And the Canadian MLS clubs are always likely (for the foreseeable future) to be relied upon for supplying players to the national teams for relations with the clubs are not unimportant.

I like option 1.  And we really are talking about taking Chapman or Hamilton etc coming in for maybe a sub appearance.  We arent hurting the national team much by switching around guys that low on the depth chart. 

I almost think Crepeau should stay with WC.  If we are going to start Borjan every game, why not let Crepeau keep his #1status??  I'd hate to see Mcgrath have a couple really good games while Crepeau sits at GC.   If Herdman is going to play him, let him go. 

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6 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I like option 1.  And we really are talking about taking Chapman or Hamilton etc coming in for maybe a sub appearance.  We arent hurting the national team much by switching around guys that low on the depth chart. 

I almost think Crepeau should stay with WC.  If we are going to start Borjan every game, why not let Crepeau keep his #1status??  I'd hate to see Mcgrath have a couple really good games while Crepeau sits at GC.   If Herdman is going to play him, let him go. 

Valid point on Crepeau.  I hope to see him feature once or at least in the friendly vs Trinidad.

Unfortunately I don't think we have the depth at goalkeeper to allow that to happen.  Big drop after Crepeau and not necessarily in talent but you would be bringing a keeper that has not been playing frequently at a high level.

Edited by Corazon
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11 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Crepeau is the very clear #2 right now and we don’t have the kind of depth to not call him.  If Borjan got hurt we defiantly want our 2nd best keeper ready to go.

He’s also the starter at VWC and I can’t imagine him going to play in the gold cut causing him to lose his spot.

Which, if we may recall, actually happened in the last Gold Cup when Piette accidentally punched Borjan in the head against French Guiana.

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Yeah, I am totally comfortable with it for guys that are pretty likely to not see the field - or see it for very limited minutes - when there are quite capable alternatives available.

I am way less comfortable with the idea of making club concessions when we are talking about our back-up keeper.  Injuries happen, and it would be unacceptable to jeopardize a major (to us) tournament by not calling up our clear #2 keeper. 

If nothing else, this shows the silliness (IMO) of MLS continuing it's season while the GC is on.  

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Borjan gets hurt/suspended quite a bit for Canada too.  Last Gold Cup he came out of the first game, I remember him getting hurt against a Central American team too and of course his red card against Dominica. 

We need Crépeau, period.  I also wouldn’t be opposed to him having a start in the Cuba game if we’re smooth sailing. 

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Someone help me.. when we see these wacky starting 11s, which one is it? Do people need to find a way to get Jonathan Osorio in the 11 or do they need to find a way to get a tfc player in the 11?

I know its one in the same for now but i just need a way to detect this impulse as we move forward as a soccer nation. That way i can sleep easy knowing TSN pundits and tfc fans dont actually choose our starting 11

Edited by SpursFlu
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46 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

FWIW, this is Terry Dunfield's starting 11 projection for the GC.  Some odd choices for me.

- No Cav, which pushes David up top, making room for Osorio.

- Hutch as CB, to the exclusion of Henry, with Piette assuming the CDM role.

- Crepeau instead of Borjan as Canada "looks to the future".

 

 

image.jpeg

Saw this live, seems like a lot of MLS bias.

Borjan is still going to be our starter for a while unless someone gets good enough to steal his spot. I doubt it happens for a while, I watched his Champions League games and he was amazing.

Cavallini has to be out there.

Osorio isn't a starter for us right now and I say that as a biased TFC fan. Too much midfield depth.

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30 minutes ago, Bdog said:

Saw this live, seems like a lot of MLS bias.

Borjan is still going to be our starter for a while unless someone gets good enough to steal his spot. I doubt it happens for a while, I watched his Champions League games and he was amazing.

Cavallini has to be out there.

Osorio isn't a starter for us right now and I say that as a biased TFC fan. Too much midfield depth.

This will be the deepest squad we've sent to the GC, well, ever. We need to win, not "look to the future". Borjan gives us the best opportunity to do so.

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1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

Someone help me.. when we see these wacky starting 11s, which one is it? Do people need to find a way to get Jonathan Osorio in the 11 or do they need to find a way to get a tfc player in the 11?

I know its one in the same for now but i just need a way to detect this impulse as we move forward as a soccer nation. That way i can sleep easy knowing TSN pundits and tfc fans dont actually choose our starting 11

Because all TFC fans are biased eh

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2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

FWIW, this is Terry Dunfield's starting 11 projection for the GC.  Some odd choices for me.

- No Cav, which pushes David up top, making room for Osorio.

- Hutch as CB, to the exclusion of Henry, with Piette assuming the CDM role.

- Crepeau instead of Borjan as Canada "looks to the future".

 

 

image.jpeg

Agree with others that it's MLS biased, so you gotta take it with a grain of salt.

I don't believe for a second this is Dunfield's actual best 11, especially with the Crepeau call over Borjan, but I never watched the broadcast so who knows.

Either way, I agree that Cavallini should be a starter, but that front 3 is very interesting and would be very dynamic, probably with interchange as well. I don't mind that look at all.

As for the midfield, well it's pretty solid but there's certainly room for debate with Piette and Osorio. Arfield not so much. Kaye obviously would be a fine choice and obviously Hutchinson is going to play there if available. I want to think the CB shout was just for fun. Was Dunfield just casually talking about what may work, or was he actually seriously advocating for Atiba to play there?

Edited by Obinna
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I suspect we play 3-5-2 because it maximizes the talent on the team.  We have the players, for the first time ever, to compete with Mexico.

My preferred lineup:

              David.       Cavalini.  

Davies.        Arfield.           Hoilett.     

          Hutchinson.      Kaye.   

  James.      Henry.      ZBG.     

                  Borjan.      

 

I think that lineup can be competitive with anyone in CONCACAF.  I don’t mean we can beat Mexico but we can be competitive with them.   I think this lineup is the 4th best lineup in CONCACAF.

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30 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I suspect we play 3-5-2 because it maximizes the talent on the team.  We have the players, for the first time ever, to compete with Mexico.

My preferred lineup:

              David.       Cavalini.  

Davies.        Arfield.           Hoilett.     

          Hutchinson.      Kaye.   

  James.      Henry.      ZBG.     

                  Borjan.      

 

I think that lineup can be competitive with anyone in CONCACAF.  I don’t mean we can beat Mexico but we can be competitive with them.   I think this lineup is the 4th best lineup in CONCACAF.

I could be wrong but I don’t think ZBG really belongs in a back 3. He really is an offensive minded fullback, in a 3-5-2 he’s best suited for the wing back role where he has played a couple of times this year with the Impact.

Edited by HochelagaFC
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