Gold Cup 2019

[Obinna]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:32 PM, KW519 said:

Looks like Daniel Johnson from Preston North End is included as well. As for Bailey he was in Jamaica ready to play one of these previous windows which makes me think it's his adopted father/agent being salty about his other son

Just noticed Ravel Morrison is also in the 40 

Yeah I was just snooping around the reggae boyz forum and saw that. Big pick up as well if he's in. 

Edit: 

So Ravel Morrison now plays his club ball in Sweden with mid-table Ostersunds. They sit 9th in the table and he's played 4 games for them in 2019 with zero goals. Before that, he notched 3 goals in 18 games with Atlas, which is not a bad return. I had no idea he was playing in Mexico, but apparently he was loaned out there by Lazio. 

This guy could be a bust or he could show up and do a lot of harm to other teams. Good for the confederation though if it's the latter. Just hope it isn't against us. We know what happened last time against Jamaica...

Edited May 21, 2019 by Obinna

[A_Gagne]

4 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Neil Davidson says PDF version is correct:

http://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1130619280981151745

That means that Okello, Straith and Wotherspoon are on the 40-man roster (but if they were last-minute inclusions, expect all three to be cut from the final 23-man roster).

Yeah kinda like showing up on the last day of pre-season and finding your name at the bottom of the inter-squad game sheet written in pencil.

IMO should have been a few CanPL players on the 40 man roster. Carducci is top of that list.

If the Impact did complain about loosing Shome, and that's the reason he's not on the list, then they better damn well play him during the GC. Or alternatively, maybe they cut a deal so he could be made available for the U23s... unlikely, but I can hope right.

[Cheeta]

If you polled 100 Vs I think for 99 of those polled you wouldn't see more than 26-28 different names from that 40 man roster in their final 23 selections.  With much of the differences being down to depth selection by positon as anything else.

An honour to be included for sure, but the "bottom" dozen on that list is an honourable mention.  That it doesn't include any CPL players is neither here nor there.  They're not going to the Gold Cup either. 

At least this year anyway.   

Edited May 21, 2019 by Cheeta

[Corazon]

9 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

If you polled 100 Vs I think for 99 of those polled you wouldn't see more than 26-28 different names from that 40 man roster in their final 23 selections.  With much of the differences being down to depth selection by positon as anything else.

An honour to be included for sure, but the "bottom" dozen on that list is an honourable mention.  That it doesn't include any CPL players is neither here nor there.  They're not going to the Gold Cup either. 

At least this year anyway.   

Couldn't agree more.

[ktf]

I also am not too worried about the lack of CPL players. None of them would make the final roster, and the time of the Gold Cup preparation is too valuable for the CPL teams, who need these players, to go for two-three days of camp. 

I noted it in the CPL forum as well, but looking at goalies. Borjan, Crepeau should be locks. Pantemis/Busti are more developmental/roster filler. One of them may make the final roster, but neither should be consider even the 5th/6th goalies on the depth chart. Carducci, Ingham, Village, etc. (basically any Canadian CPL starter) is probably in better form, due to playing time, and they just deserve it, but taking them away from their teams in the first half of June, even for the camp is a waste, and possibly detrimental to their teams. I think for non-keepers, this fact is even more critical. It is not a busy stretch for PFC (unless there is a CC miracle this week), but imagine if Chung, Verhoevan, or Baldismo were taken away for even 3-4 days!

[Shway]

We all should except the simple reality that it is early days for the CPL, and that having no one called up is beneficial to the teams and the overall product of the CPL. 

Im excited to see what our U23 team will look like, with more players having substantial minutes earned by the time the team assembles. Those guys will then have an opportunity to play themselves into the bigger picture, as Herdman has stated he's more interested in this age group of guys. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Shway

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

We all should except the simple reality that it is really days for the CPL, and that having no one called up is beneficial to the teams and the overall product of the CPL. 

Im excited to see what our U23 team will look like, with more players having substantial minutes earned by the time the team assembles. Those guys will then have an opportunity to play themselves into the bigger picture, as Herdman has stated he's more interested in this age group of guys. 

I really suspect this is what's going on here.

[CanadaFan123]

I agree that the last dozen spots are “filler” and for that reason the CSA is doing their own league a disservice.  It will be tougher to convince the next Petrasso to come to CPL because they’re going to think they’ll be dropped.  For instance, let’s pretend Marcus Godinho starts for Canada at the Gold cup... if he signs for York 9 next year does he now get dropped?  That would be akin to what’s happening with Petrasso. 

That isn’t good for CPL because it’s going to turn away national level players. 

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I agree that the last dozen spots are “filler” and for that reason the CSA is doing their own league a disservice.  It will be tougher to convince the next Petrasso to come to CPL because they’re going to think they’ll be dropped.  For instance, let’s pretend Marcus Godinho starts for Canada at the Gold cup... if he signs for York 9 next year does he now get dropped?  That would be akin to what’s happening with Petrasso. 

That isn’t good for CPL because it’s going to turn away national level players. 

I think that the players understand the process well enough to know that there is little difference between being named to a 40 man roster with very little chance of actually playing, and not being named to the roster at all. They won't be making career decisions based on a perceived, though largely meaningless, snub.

Edited May 21, 2019 by jonovision

[CanadaFan123]

20 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I think that the players understand the process well enough to know that there is little difference between being named to a 40 man roster with very little chance of actually playing, and not being named to the roster at all.

Maybe but this is about our league.  Just think if Canada gets a result against Mexico, you will have thousands of people going to check out Canada’s roster/Wikipedia page.  People see a CPL team, even if that player doesn’t make the final roster and they’ll think “I guess that level is half decent” similar to the way many people looked at the Costa Rican league after the 2014 World Cup.

All of our rivals who we consider to be near us called a plethora of domestic players (Jamaica, Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica).  The CPL is right in the middle of those leagues.  Costa Rica is a bigger team than us and even they aren’t above calling a ton of domestic guys. 

It’s all about optics.  Should have even used one spot for Carducci.. what’s the point of calling Busti? He’s cap tied and not playing pro. 

FWIW even the USA called a player from the USL and I wouldn’t be opposed to us calling a Fury player either.  Just opposed to players who sit in MLS press boxes and earn calls.

Edited May 21, 2019 by CanadaFan123

[Obinna]

58 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Maybe but this is about our league.  Just think if Canada gets a result against Mexico, you will have thousands of people going to check out Canada’s roster/Wikipedia page.  People see a CPL team, even if that player doesn’t make the final roster and they’ll think “I guess that level is half decent” similar to the way many people looked at the Costa Rican league after the 2014 World Cup.

All of our rivals who we consider to be near us called a plethora of domestic players (Jamaica, Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica).  The CPL is right in the middle of those leagues.  Costa Rica is a bigger team than us and even they aren’t above calling a ton of domestic guys. 

It’s all about optics.  Should have even used one spot for Carducci.. what’s the point of calling Busti? He’s cap tied and not playing pro. 

FWIW even the USA called a player from the USL and I wouldn’t be opposed to us calling a Fury player either.  Just opposed to players who sit in MLS press boxes and earn calls.

To play devil's advocate, why would John Herdman name a CPL player to the 40-man list who stood no chance of playing? 

Let's keep in mind that some CPL teams are struggling to fill out the bench. I say no chance of playing because I believe Herdman is purposely not calling these players in order to prevent further strain on these clubs.

Anyone could get injured between now and final roster time. You can't list a player solely for optics. You need to be able to actually call them. 

That said, throwing away 1 of your 40 spots on a CPL may have prevented these debates from taking place. But then again, maybe not. Zero players, one player, that is weak representation either way, right? I don't think calling a single player makes the CPL look any better.

If anything zero players is better than 1 because you can point to the short benches and fitness concerns for reasons why you didn't call any of them. Calling just 1 is kinda like saying "only 1 player in the entire league is good enough".

Edited May 21, 2019 by Obinna

[Ansem]

We need to let this go. The only name I realistically expected to make not only the 40 men roster but also the final cut was De Jong.

He got hurt and that was the end of it. Many in CPL barely played before being signed and if they did, it was in USL, other lower leagues or limited minutes in higher leagues. They weren't on CSA radar anyways. The league is 4-5 games in, they should be judged on more games into the league 

We should save our pessimism for the Nation league. Even there, unless a CB plays superbly and our regular CB are decimated by injuries, it's unlikely to be any different for the final cut. We're deep upfront and mid, same for keeper but I would expect a CPL tag in the 40 men roster

I'm saving my anger for the U23 Olympics qualifications. If I see a heavy MLS roster with guys who barely play or with the tag academy than we have a problem as CPL will be playing lots of them hving played minutes.

Judging from the 2018 Toulon roster, I expect them to be back at the minimum 

Noah Verhoeven Pacific FC

Emile Legault Pacific FC

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Ansem

[SpursFlu]

I think everyone's missing the point or not not looking at it from the right angle

The real question is.. 1 year from now how many players on that list will be playing in the CPL? 

I say 5

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We need to let this go. The only name I realistically expected to make not only the 40 men roster but also the final cut was De Jong.

He got hurt and that was the end of it. Many in CPL barely played before being signed and if they did, it was in USL, other lower leagues or limited minutes in higher leagues. They weren't on CSA radar anyways. The league is 4-5 games in, they should be judged on more games into the league 

We should save our pessimism for the Nation league. Even there, unless a CB plays superbly and our regular CB are decimated by injuries, it's unlikely to be any different for the final cut. We're deep upfront and mid, same for keeper but I would expect a CPL tag in the 40 men roster

I'm saving my anger for the U23 Olympics qualifications. If I see a heavy MLS roster with guys who barely play or with the tag academy than we have a problem as CPL will be playing lots of them hving played minutes.

Judging from the 2018 Toulon roster, I expect them to be back at the minimum 

Noah Verhoeven Pacific FC

Emile Legault Pacific FC

 

Many of the players in CanPL have already played for our youth national teams. All of them are on the CSA radar. Plus, we know Herdman watched at least one match. I'm sure he's watched most (if not all) games so far. So to say they weren't on the CSA radar is kinda bogus. I don't quite get that.

As for the league being only 4-5 games in, I don't think that matters. That is plenty of time for player evaluation.

 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Many of the players in CanPL have already played for our youth national teams. All of them are on the CSA radar. Plus, we know Herdman watched at least one match. I'm sure he's watched most (if not all) games so far. So to say they weren't on the CSA radar is kinda bogus. I don't quite get that.

As for the league being only 4-5 games in, I don't think that matters. That is plenty of time for player evaluation.

 

I meant senior level

[nolbertos]

You know if we had more friendlies, we’d be avoiding debates of playing MLS, CPL, USL players and trying them out.  That’s what friendlies are for to see how deep your bench is and give players who haven’t played for the national team a time to shine.  This Gold Cup, Nations League Cup, potential Copa America invite should only include the Top 40 who are playing great in there leagues and even then debate which leagues they’re getting playing time.  We should be bitchin at the CSA for scheduling more friendlies now that we have a league to test players out.  No more purse strings from the CSA should be allowed.

[Shway]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

As for the league being only 4-5 games in, I don't think that matters. That is plenty of time for player evaluation.

 

Have to disagree with you (which I rarely do). It takes time for teams to gel, players getting better understanding of their teammates. That takes longer than a few games, especially when you factor in squad rotation, injuries etc. What this means is the players haven't quiet settled into their own sort of comfort which translates to their form. 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Shway said:

Have to disagree with you (which I rarely do). It takes time for teams to gel, players getting better understanding of their teammates. That takes longer than a few games, especially when you factor in squad rotation, injuries etc. What this means is the players haven't quiet settled into their own sort of comfort which translates to their form. 

Perhaps four or five games is not ideal if you wish to do extensive scouting in an attempting to uncover hidden gems. You are right that form will change as teams gel with time. They'll be some more surprises later in the season that we all don't expect.

That said, four or five games may be sufficient to see where players on your short list are at. Players like Awuah or Bekker come to mind.

In time, we may have new and unexpected names on our lips, but Gold Cup is right around the corner. Checking-in on the more known players doesn't need to be so extensive, know what I mean?

[Obinna]

44 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I meant senior level

Ah, see what you mean now. Either way, I agree that U-23 qualifying is where we ought to see a plethora of CanPL players. It will be interesting to see who makes that squad.

[Gian-Luca]

It is just symbolic and optics for me. I don’t want to see anyone currently in the CPL on the 23 man roster but There is no chance that we will call 6 keepers for the 23 man squad, we all know fully well that three will be cut so it would have sent a great message that those keepers playing well and regularly in the CPL might get considered for the national team instead of 4th string MLS keepers  who don’t play. Right now the opposite message is being sent, that for national team aspirations you are better off not playing for an MLS team than playing regularly and well in the CPL as you are less likely to be even considered. 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It is just symbolic and optics for me. I don’t want to see anyone currently in the CPL on the 23 man roster but There is no chance that we will call 6 keepers for the 23 man squad, we all know fully well that three will be cut so it would have sent a great message that those keepers playing well and regularly in the CPL might get considered for the national team instead of 4th string MLS keepers  who don’t play. Right now the opposite message is being sent, that for national team aspirations you are better off not playing for an MLS team than playing regularly and well in the CPL as you are less likely to be even considered. 

I fully agree. I wanted to see Carducci get called ahead of Pantemis. However, if you aren't going to use Carducci, you wouldn't name him. Cavalry only have two keepers.

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It is just symbolic and optics for me. I don’t want to see anyone currently in the CPL on the 23 man roster but There is no chance that we will call 6 keepers for the 23 man squad, we all know fully well that three will be cut so it would have sent a great message that those keepers playing well and regularly in the CPL might get considered for the national team instead of 4th string MLS keepers  who don’t play. Right now the opposite message is being sent, that for national team aspirations you are better off not playing for an MLS team than playing regularly and well in the CPL as you are less likely to be even considered. 

But the league is literally 5 games old.

You'd be right if this was the case comes next time.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Ansem

[apbsmith]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

If anything zero players is better than 1 because you can point to the short benches and fitness concerns for reasons why you didn't call any of them. Calling just 1 is kinda like saying "only 1 player in the entire league is good enough".

This ^. Save the criticism to after the U23 & 40 man Nation League roster. 

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if a statement was made about no CPL players shortly. 

This is an ignorant question, I honestly don't know...do all 40 players attend the first camp? If so, I don't think any CPL players should have been called, not at such early stages of the league.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

This ^. Save the criticism to after the U23 & 40 man Nation League roster. 

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if a statement was made about no CPL players shortly. 

This is an ignorant question, I honestly don't know...do all 40 players attend the first camp? If so, I don't think any CPL players should have been called, not at such early stages of the league.

I was wondering the same thing myself. I don't think this will be the case, but I wouldn't rule it out until the official plans are shared with the fans. Didn't we do this one year though? It sounds like something we've done in the past...

[CanadaFan123]

27 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I fully agree. I wanted to see Carducci get called ahead of Pantemis. However, if you aren't going to use Carducci, you wouldn't name him. Cavalry only have two keepers.

We aren’t going to use Busti or Pantemis either. It’s just symbolic and the message is that you have a better shot not playing than actually playing.  Even if you didn’t want to call a CPL keeper there are guys in USL like Irving and Macleod who are much more deserving than Busti or Pantemis at this stage.  Even St Clair would be more deserving having just won a national championship months back and has played USL.  

Reward players who are playing, even if it’s symbolically.  That’s all those keeper calls were.

Honestly I would have called Ranjitsingh as well over those guys.  Let’s be aggressive and smart.  Calling Busti and Pantemis is neither.

Edited May 21, 2019 by CanadaFan123