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Posted (edited)

I like that that they’ve done away with the embarrassing roster changes after the group stage rule.

I like the draw as we’re garaunteed a game against Mexico and likely to get a game against Costa Rica.

This will provide a good measuring stick for progress. Between the GC and Nations League our guys will get a run out against all three top teams. 

If we do well it’ll instill confidence in the new tactics and mental approach, if we get our asses handed to us, we’ll know that for all the talk not much has actually changed, and if we somehow manage to loose to Cuba/Martinique we all gotta start asking some serious questions. 

Edited by A_Gagne

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I love the draw.  Now Herdman has no excuse if he can’t qualify Canada to the next round out of this group.  I prayed for a tough Gold Cup draw and now I got it.  Lets how the CMNT handle Cuba, Martinique and Mejico.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

I like that that they’ve done away with the embarrassing roster changes after the group stage rule.

I like the draw as we’re garaunteed a game against Mexico and likely to get a game against Costa Rica.

This will provide a good measuring stick for progress. Between the GC and Nations League our guys will get a run out against all three top teams. 

If we do well it’ll instill confidence in the new tactics and mental approach, if we get our asses handed to us, we’ll know that for all the talk not much has actually changed, and if we somehow manage to loose to Cuba/Martinique we all gotta start asking some serious questions. 

I guess I kinda agree here although the team as already changed a lot to previous versions. For one these are all professionals under contract and not the least for some of them. It's just our defense that is weak and it will show against Mexico. 

Martinique is tricky, I have no idea how they can build a competitive squad but you look at their numbers, they have! 

Of course we should go through though. 

Edited by shamrock

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Posted (edited)

It’s crazy how concacaf made a group of Jamaica, El Salvador, Honduras and curaçao and another with both Nicaragua and Bermuda. But if you think of it the so called group of death has the fewest number of nations league A teams in it versus any other gold cup group. 

Edited by Alex

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In terms of straight qualifying out of the group, I like this group in comparison to having 3 or 4 teams competing for 2 spots (like Group C or D’a group) Might jinx it, but if we can’t advance against martinique with our current crop oh boy.

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Am I alone in thinking we could beat Costa Rica ? I mean, Davies and David are dynamic and could change the game.

 

And with Hutch and Kaye in the midfield, we’ll have great distribution. 

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11 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Am I alone in thinking we could beat Costa Rica ? I mean, Davies and David are dynamic and could change the game.

 

And with Hutch and Kaye in the midfield, we’ll have great distribution. 

You are not.

We have had some good results against them in the GC. Some tight games that were back and forth. I don't see any reason to expect something different this time around, if we face them. If anything, I am slightly more optimistic than in previous tournaments.

Their big players don't seem to be having steller seasons at club level.

Joel Campbell never found the net with his Serie A team and subsequently left for Liga MX, with Leon I think, where he's played a little bit, but I don't think he's lighting it up. I don't even think he has scored down there. Ruiz hasn't played much for Santos down in Brazil. Borges has left Deportio La Coruna for a team in the Turkish Super Lig, but hasn't played much either, I don't know if he was/is injured or what.

Keylor Navas lost his spot at Real Madrid, but he is still world class and the aforementioned players are good and didn't become bad overnight. They also have a large MLS contingent of solid players, as do we, so I think either team could win.

Perhaps an ex-factor for us could be Davies, if he really heats up and finds form. To do that, he needs to get healthy and try and earn a few more Bayern appearnces before the season ends. I hope they wrap up the league and Dortmund fail to increase his chances of seeing the field. It really is such a hard team to break into.

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49 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You are not.

We have had some good results against them in the GC. Some tight games that were back and forth. I don't see any reason to expect something different this time around, if we face them. If anything, I am slightly more optimistic than in previous tournaments.

Their big players don't seem to be having steller seasons at club level.

Joel Campbell never found the net with his Serie A team and subsequently left for Liga MX, with Leon I think, where he's played a little bit, but I don't think he's lighting it up. I don't even think he has scored down there. Ruiz hasn't played much for Santos down in Brazil. Borges has left Deportio La Coruna for a team in the Turkish Super Lig, but hasn't played much either, I don't know if he was/is injured or what.

Keylor Navas lost his spot at Real Madrid, but he is still world class and the aforementioned players are good and didn't become bad overnight. They also have a large MLS contingent of solid players, as do we, so I think either team could win.

Perhaps an ex-factor for us could be Davies, if he really heats up and finds form. To do that, he needs to get healthy and try and earn a few more Bayern appearnces before the season ends. I hope they wrap up the league and Dortmund fail to increase his chances of seeing the field. It really is such a hard team to break into.

We definitely have a chance against Costa Rica with the talent we have.  The talent for Costa Rica is still immense and much deeper than us.  They have one of the best keepers in the world and a great backline.  They have 5 or 6 MLS defenders with nearly 150 caps experience.  Their MLS backline is better than our best backline.  That isn't even including defenders from Bologna (serie a), espanyol (la liga), celtic & Sunderland (he's stuck it out during he downfall!)  Celso is still playing in Turkey but Bryan Ruiz & Joel Campbell have both come back from Europe but we would love to have players of their pedigree and experience and we would take any player playing for Santos & Leon. 

In regards of attack, we're fairly even but defensively we are still quite far behind them.

I do have to disagree with your statement on Canada having a a large contingent of solid MLS players though.  We have 6 Canadian players that have played in the MLS this year that do not play for any of Montreal, Vancouver or Toronto. 

This 6 includes;

Buchanan who has played 20 minutes, Edwards who has played in 1 game.  Kamal Miller who has played 2 games.  I will say that Tesho & Johnson are proven MLS players.  MAK is on another level of this group.  So essentially we have between 1 to 3 CURRENT quality MLS players outside of Canada.

As for the Canadian teams, Piette, Osorio & Henry are the only starters (perhaps Teibert as well).  Hamilton, Choiniore, Chapman, Cornelius, etc. are all role players currently.

I know we should be proud of far we have come in terms of players in the MLS but based on this year's statistics so far we have 4 regular starters in all of the MLS in Osorio, MAK, Henry & Piette and 3 others when healthy Teibert, Johnson, Tesho.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Corazon said:

We definitely have a chance against Costa Rica with the talent we have.  The talent for Costa Rica is still immense and much deeper than us.  They have one of the best keepers in the world and a great backline.  They have 5 or 6 MLS defenders with nearly 150 caps experience.  Their MLS backline is better than our best backline.  That isn't even including defenders from Bologna (serie a), espanyol (la liga), celtic & Sunderland (he's stuck it out during he downfall!)  Celso is still playing in Turkey but Bryan Ruiz & Joel Campbell have both come back from Europe but we would love to have players of their pedigree and experience and we would take any player playing for Santos & Leon. 

In regards of attack, we're fairly even but defensively we are still quite far behind them.

I do have to disagree with your statement on Canada having a a large contingent of solid MLS players though.  We have 6 Canadian players that have played in the MLS this year that do not play for any of Montreal, Vancouver or Toronto. 

This 6 includes;

Buchanan who has played 20 minutes, Edwards who has played in 1 game.  Kamal Miller who has played 2 games.  I will say that Tesho & Johnson are proven MLS players.  MAK is on another level of this group.  So essentially we have between 1 to 3 CURRENT quality MLS players outside of Canada.

As for the Canadian teams, Piette, Osorio & Henry are the only starters (perhaps Teibert as well).  Hamilton, Choiniore, Chapman, Cornelius, etc. are all role players currently.

I know we should be proud of far we have come in terms of players in the MLS but based on this year's statistics so far we have 4 regular starters in all of the MLS in Osorio, MAK, Henry & Piette and 3 others when healthy Teibert, Johnson, Tesho.

Originally I was going to suggest our MLS midfielders were arguably on par with theirs, but then I had a look at their roster and it looks like we have an edge: Osorio, Kaye, Piette, Akindele versus Guzman, Segura and Wallace? I'll take our group.

However, in terms of MLS defense, they are clearly better and (most importantly) more experienced. I would take Calvo, Waston over Cornelius and Henry, plus Mataritta is definitely better than Morgan, if we want to compare full backs (Mataritta is more off a wing back, but close enough).

Another thing we shouldn't discount is their domestic players. Venegas and/or Bolaños are basically MLS-level players who may sneak onto their Gold Cup squad, plus they have many young up and coming players who could be very talented, both domestic and playing with lower teams in Europe.

Ultimately though, I think you are right that their defense overall is better on paper, and have more experience, but if I can be optimistic (and maybe a bit of a homer), it was the same group on defense that we faced last gold cup, and we scored on them, a la Gamboa falling asleep and allowing Davies to ghost in behind. That is what happens when you don't play regularly, you lose your sharpness.

Their European-based defenders are admittedly on the books of some recognizable clubs, but they are still largely bench players at those clubs and are two years older now, with many already in their 30s or close to it.

Meanwhile, our attack has much more potential now than two years ago and our most dangerous attackers are mostly athletic, skilled and young.

On the other end, we can say our defense is weak, but if their main attackers are not in form and not scoring, that matters less.

We'll see how the tournament develops and they should cruise in their group and gain confidence, but they'll also be much less battle tested than us by that point, as we would have had a game against Mexico by then. Who is the strongest team they'll play, Haiti?

Edited by Obinna

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7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Originally I was going to suggest our MLS midfielders were arguably on par with theirs, but then I had a look at their roster and it looks like we have an edge: Osorio, Kaye, Piette, Akindele versus Guzman, Segura and Wallace? I'll take our group.

However, in terms of MLS defense, they are clearly better and (most importantly) more experienced. I would take Calvo, Waston over Cornelius and Henry, plus Mataritta is definitely better than Morgan, if we want to compare full backs (Mataritta is more off a wing back, but close enough).

Another thing we shouldn't discount is their domestic players. Venegas and/or Bolaños are basically MLS-level players who may sneak onto their Gold Cup squad, plus they have many young up and coming players who could be very talented, both domestic and playing with lower teams in Europe.

Ultimately though, I think you are right that their defense overall is better on paper, and have more experience, but if I can be optimistic (and maybe a bit of a homer), it was the same group on defense that we faced last gold cup, and we scored on them, a la Gamboa falling asleep and allowing Davies to ghost in behind. That is what happens when you don't play regularly, you lose your sharpness.

Their European-based defenders are admittedly on the books of some recognizable clubs, but they are still largely bench players at those clubs and are two years older now, with many already in their 30s or close to it.

Meanwhile, our attack has much more potential now than two years ago and our most dangerous attackers are mostly athletic, skilled and young.

I was just thinking the same thing. Their defence and goalie are better than us, but I would take our midfield and forwards. (Combined we might actually be as good as Mexico)

Also, if you look at both teams top 15 players we have 3-4 that are over 28, while Costa Rica only has 3-4 under 28. In 3 or so years when they are gettin past their prime and our team is just entering it we should surpass them.

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I’d be disappointed if we lost to Costa Rica.  Not shocked because they’re a good squad but disappointed because we are right there and can beat them. 

In terms of young talent we are head and shoulders above Costa Rica and have only added to it since 2017, when we drew them.  

They have the advantage in experience and some skilled players but they are in decline (not rapidly but still). 

Even though I would give them credit for all that experience let’s not forget we have one of the most experienced players in concacaf in Atiba.. I don’t know how everyone always forgets that when they talk about “experience”.  Atiba is arguably more experienced than any player on Costa Rica save Navas. 

Since 2017 we have added some pretty impressive pieces and our young players have only gotten better.  

Does anyone know the last year we played mexico and USA in competitive matches in the same year?  This is exciting prep for WCQ.

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1 hour ago, Stryker911 said:

I was just thinking the same thing. Their defence and goalie are better than us, but I would take our midfield and forwards. (Combined we might actually be as good as Mexico)

Also, if you look at both teams top 15 players we have 3-4 that are over 28, while Costa Rica only has 3-4 under 28. In 3 or so years when they are gettin past their prime and our team is just entering it we should surpass them.

Agree but this is the best group of players we have ever had.  Mexico will have another group of youngsters move to Europe in the coming years.  They produce the quality in constant waves.

We could always produce an upset but honestly Mexico is hands down better top to bottom.  I am curious as to why you would think that believe that Lozano, Tecatito, Raul & Chicharito are inferior to Cavallini, Balou, Larin, Millar & David or why you think Herrera, Guardado, J Dos Santos, Gutierrez is inferior to Arfield, Atiba, Osorio, MAK & Piette?

Vela doesn't seem to be a part of El tri's plan but is probably the best player in the MLS in his 30s.

I get that our current core is much younger than Mexico's current core but I find it very hard to believe that anyone truly believes we are as good as Mexico anywhere in our lineup.

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11 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Agree but this is the best group of players we have ever had.  Mexico will have another group of youngsters move to Europe in the coming years.  They produce the quality in constant waves.

We could always produce an upset but honestly Mexico is hands down better top to bottom.  I am curious as to why you would think that believe that Lozano, Tecatito, Raul & Chicharito are inferior to Cavallini, Balou, Larin, Millar & David or why you think Herrera, Guardado, J Dos Santos, Gutierrez is inferior to Arfield, Atiba, Osorio, MAK & Piette?

Vela doesn't seem to be a part of El tri's plan but is probably the best player in the MLS in his 30s.

I get that our current core is much younger than Mexico's current core but I find it very hard to believe that anyone truly believes we are as good as Mexico anywhere in our lineup.

What I meant is that us and Costa Rica combined could beat Mexico.

Also I was comparing our core to Costa Rica not Mexico.

 

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27 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

What I meant is that us and Costa Rica combined could beat Mexico.

Also I was comparing our core to Costa Rica not Mexico.

 

My mistake.  I agree with our comparison to Costa Rica 100%.  Our defense is definitively lacking in comparison.

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I would definitely go full "A" squad in the first game and, sadly, I think it might be best to rest several players vs. Mexico.  I know that this won't be a popular sentiment, but in the bigger scheme of things the first and third games are way more important ... and we'd realistically lose even with our A squad vs. Mexico.

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I know, it's transfermarkt, but our squad is listed as 25.45 Million Euros, while they are 26.5 Million Euros. Pretty much equal.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/kanada/startseite/verein/3510/saison_id/2018

https://www.transfermarkt.com/costa-rica/startseite/verein/8497

Note though, our squad doesn't contain Davies or Arfield. 

So Canada is worth about 20 million more? 

It would be an interesting matchup, CR has an elite goalie and two very solid CBs. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Addona said:

I would definitely go full "A" squad in the first game and, sadly, I think it might be best to rest several players vs. Mexico.  I know that this won't be a popular sentiment, but in the bigger scheme of things the first and third games are way more important ... and we'd realistically lose even with our A squad vs. Mexico.

I disagree, we should play all games to win

Edited by Blackjack15

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