What is our CB depth

[Bertuzzi44]

That is not a "really good group", and if Canada wants to take the next step and be a consistent top 35-ish ranked team that gets out of the World Cup group stage, our CBs must improve.

[A_Gagne]

16 hours ago, Shway said:

4 year bump ( I swear there was another thread)

I think it looks like this..

1. Vitoria (36)
2. Miller (25)
3. Cornelius (25)
4. Kennedy (25)
5. Henry (29)
6. Waterman (27)
7. Zator (28)
8. MacNaughton (27)
9. Heibert (25)

 

I'd put Waterman and MacNaughton, and potentially Heibert (if he establishes himself as a starter) above Henry. Love they guy but Henry's body just can't stay healthy. At 29 I'm not sure how much more he's got in the tank, and with the WC in the rear view mirror it's I think it's time to give others an opportunity.

[FC_Hali]

Saw a post that Piette was training as a CB with Montreal and got me thinking; could he be a bandaid solution in the Hutchinson back 3 role? A bit more mobile and could potentially bridge the gap until a pure CB emerges post Vitoria. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by FC_Hali

[Kadenge]

32 minutes ago, FC_Hali said:

Saw a post that Piette was training as a CB with Montreal and got me thinking; could he be a bandaid solution in the Hutchinson back 3 role? A bit more mobile and could potentially bridge the gap until a pure CB emerges post Vitoria. 

He will need these then

 

[Shway]

5'7 CB with no pace, and lack of aerial strength........

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

He will need these then

 

He's going to play broomball? 

 

[FC_Hali]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

5'7 CB with no pace, and lack of aerial strength........

That’s a dated take… The ability to read the game, tactical flexibility, and ball-playing ability far outweigh the importance of height in the modern game. Especially when you’re playing with 3 CB’s.  As for pace, Herdman rotated Vitoria, Henry and Hutchinson in that central position… Like I said, perhaps a temporary solution worth exploring until another option proves to be superior.

[Bison44]

Hutch was in a rotation for the central CB spot???  WHA????  You have to back that up...did he play CB more than just a few times for us?  Mb I am misremembering......

[Shway]

1 hour ago, FC_Hali said:

That’s a dated take… The ability to read the game, tactical flexibility, and ball-playing ability far outweigh the importance of height in the modern game. Especially when you’re playing with 3 CB’s.  As for pace, Herdman rotated Vitoria, Henry and Hutchinson in that central position… Like I said, perhaps a temporary solution worth exploring until another option proves to be superior.

Dated take….okay.

Name me some professional CBs that are 5’7….correct me - Go!

Lisandro Martinez is 5’9, but 1 thing is he’s always played CB professionally, second thing is he’s really really great in the air and has a great vertical, and lastly his recovery speed is great. (I hate man utd)

All of those things isn’t Piette, so yes you’re right that statement could be outdated, but when you look at the player and his abilities it’s accurate in my opinion. 

I would rather give you know Derek, Scott, Dominik, Joel, Lukas any natural CB that opportunity before “trying” Piette there. 

[Dominic94]

I don’t see it for piette 

[An Observer]

In their first match against inter miami, he played RCB for the last 30 minutes when they brought on Rea for ZBG and moved Herrera up to RWB.  They actually were quite a bit better in that set up. I was surprised to see it but Piette did quite fine back there distributing the ball and interrupting attacks down his side.  I don't remember his height being tested though.

[sebdeserio]

Used last season's stats for every MLS player that played last season. Included Camacho even though I'm not a fan and don't think he joins and if Piette continues to play cb with Waterman healthy then I'll add him.

 

[Ansem]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:10 AM, Shway said:

4 year bump ( I swear there was another thread)

I think it looks like this..

1. Vitoria (36)
2. Miller (25)
3. Cornelius (25)
4. Kennedy (25)
5. Henry (29)
6. Waterman (27)
7. Zator (28)
8. MacNaughton (27)
9. Heibert (25)

 

I think Waterman, MacNaughton and Zator are ahead of Henry

[Bigandy]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:56 AM, Ansem said:

I think Waterman, MacNaughton and Zator are ahead of Henry

Although I am not disputing that henrys ability has waned, I would say he is likey ahead of those 3 - maybe waterman edges him out if he has another good year. 

Waterman was so out of his depth in the pre WC friendly so its likely that macnaughton and Zator would be as well. Obviously with more experience they will all improve but none of these 3 are good candidates to play in the middle of the back 3. Henry can play this role. Hes also a physical presence so even if waterman is a better player, Henry provides a better skill set to our depth chart. Its difficult to find a pairing for Kamal if vitoria is unavailable. He should be paired with a more physical/Aerially dominant CB and we dont really have a right footed CB at that level. 

This obv doesnt account for the lack of minutes as both waterman and henry are unavailable and its likely that Henry doesnt have many minutes this season and falls off completely but its still a bit early in my mind to write off Henry 

[sebdeserio]

Updated centre back fotmob ranking before the window:

[Sal333]

3 hours ago, sebdeserio said:

Updated centre back fotmob ranking before the window:

 

I DON'T THINK Camacho is not a Canadian citizen yet.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

I DON'T THINK Camacho is not a Canadian citizen yet.

So you think he is a Canadian? 

[Ansem]

5 hours ago, sebdeserio said:

Updated centre back fotmob ranking before the window:

 

I have a question : who determines the "league bonus"?

[sebdeserio]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

I DON'T THINK Camacho is not a Canadian citizen yet.

I don't like him and even if he was one don't think he'd be an addition to the program but enough people here mention him that I added him

20 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I have a question : who determines the "league bonus"?

There's a website (https://www.globalfootballrankings.com) with a ranking of leagues based on the average SPI score (from 538: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/global-club-rankings/) of the teams in the league. The league bonus is found using the standard deviation of the avg SPI of the leagues involved (from the Prem to league 2) and using MLS's score as the mean since it's more or less in the middle and most of our pool is there. The league bonus is how many standard deviations away from MLS that specific league is.

It's limited by the number of leagues there's data on, for example no Ekstraklasa so had to come up with a bonus for Zator myself.

Edited March 21, 2023 by sebdeserio

[masster]

5 hours ago, sebdeserio said:

Updated centre back fotmob ranking before the window:

 

The Henry and MacNaughton games played numbers must be wrong.

[Bigandy]

So as of now, this is how i see our depth chart. My logic was a combination of form, history with the NT, Order of call ups, how i rate them and how i think john rates them. 

1. vitoria 38 caps
2. Miller 32 caps
3. Cornelius 14 caps
4. Kennedy 8 caps 
5. Zator 0 caps
6. Heibert 0 caps
7. Waterman 2 caps
8. Henry 44 caps
9. MacNaughton 1 cap

This is a bit fluid as Heibert may be above zator as a player, but our need for a right footed CB sees zator on top. Another example: Waterman may be 5th but his injury derailed him so far this season. 

[sebdeserio]

4 minutes ago, masster said:

The Henry and MacNaughton games played numbers must be wrong.

From last season since they haven't played yet this season.

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

So you think he is a Canadian? 

Lol. No, I don't

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

So as of now, this is how i see our depth chart. My logic was a combination of form, history with the NT, Order of call ups, how i rate them and how i think john rates them. 

1. vitoria 38 caps
2. Miller 32 caps
3. Cornelius 14 caps
4. Kennedy 8 caps 
5. Zator 0 caps
6. Heibert 0 caps
7. Waterman 2 caps
8. Henry 44 caps
9. MacNaughton 1 cap

This is a bit fluid as Heibert may be above zator as a player, but our need for a right footed CB sees zator on top. Another example: Waterman may be 5th but his injury derailed him so far this season. 

Perhaps I missed this, but isn't Waterman healthy now? I know he missed the first game or two of the season, but he's played since then, so when you say injury derailed him what do you mean exactly? Are you suggesting this is why he wasn't called? I figured Herdman just decided to go with Zator instead, since he's clearly in better form and probably has better fitness as well. Both are backups to Johnston, but we only really need one of them.

It probably helps Zator that he's actually playing right back for his club as well. Waterman is someone you can theoretically throw in at right back, but he's not actually doing it right now. Seems to me this is more why he was called over Waterman than injury concerns, unless I missed something of course. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Obinna

[Bigandy]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:24 PM, Obinna said:

Perhaps I missed this, but isn't Waterman healthy now? I know he missed the first game or two of the season, but he's played since then, so when you say injury derailed him what do you mean exactly? Are you suggesting this is why he wasn't called? I figured Herdman just decided to go with Zator instead, since he's clearly in better form and probably has better fitness as well. Both are backups to Johnston, but we only really need one of them.

It probably helps Zator that he's actually playing right back for his club as well. Waterman is someone you can theoretically throw in at right back, but he's not actually doing it right now. Seems to me this is more why he was called over Waterman than injury concerns, unless I missed something of course. 

Waterman was clearly ahead of Zator in the depth charts but the start of his season was derailed by injuries. Im not saying that he is dropped because he is injured. At the time of the roster announcement, waterman had 1 game played this year. He needs to find form and fitness, which is one of the reasons zator got the call.

I honestly think that Zator playing RB is more of a hinderence than a help for his CMNT. We are weak in RCB depth and johnston is only a RCB in a back 3 but could never do it in a back 4. Zats biggest opportunity with CMNT is at RCB, not RB. Obviously the versatility helps but we want zats as a CB who can play RB rather than a RB who can play CB. 

In a back 4, Laryea and Johnston are clearly our RB and I can't see Zator being utilized there. Even in a back 4, i think buchanan starts at RB ahead of Zator, unless we are bunkering down defensively. 

In a wingback formation, theres zero chance zator plays there. Zat's is our CB depth for vitoria as we dont have another right footed CB.