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What is our CB depth


baulderdash77

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In my opinion James is probably the guy I have pencilled in to start every game.... Beside him I'd like it to be Henry, I think the good outweighs the bad with Henry and still think he can improve. It is situational though, maybe if we are playing a Panama or Costa Rica it might be good to have Jako, Vitoria or Edgar in there as they are savy vets who deal with the diving better and are less clumsy in the box.. But if we are playing Honduras or Jamaica those three will get absolutely burned for pace. For as muc as people want to talk about Henry potentially costing us an important game, people seem to forget our other CB's getting tourched at the Gold Cup because they're not athletic enough to keep up with Concacaf speedsters.... Its how we got eliminated...

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29 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

But I agree he is losing his prospect tag and needs to make something happen ASAP.  Same could be said for Thomas and Roberts.

Hmm.. Davies is a prospect, Millar is a prospect, Busti is a prospect... Didic is not a prospect

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1 hour ago, Pottsy3 said:

I’ve said this a few times on the forum, but I truly think Legault seems much more fit as a LB. We played him out side during the Toulon.

I though he was a RB at Toulon with Kinumbe on the left. Has Legault played extensively at LB during his youth career?

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Thats the knock against college eh? You get out and you are 22 or so and within 2 years people are writing you off already.  The fact that Didic hasnt cracked the SKC lineup isnt good but him being a CB and only a few years into a pro career its not bad. They thought enough of him to keep him around.  What more could he do coming out of college undrafted, unsigned etc, he latched onto a MLS team and has been starting on their USL squad for 3 years (20+starts every year and getting into the game day 18 for SKC).   Dropping to the CPL to get games is silly, he is playing plenty already and is an injury or 2 away from MLS games.  But I agree he is losing his prospect tag and needs to make something happen ASAP.  Same could be said for Thomas and Roberts.

To play devils advocate, SKC need guys like him to fill out their USL team, so "keeping him around" doesn't mean anything. And while it's nice for him to get a healthy number of USL games, and feature in playoffs, the fact he's 24 should surely see us drop the "prospect" label already.

Take Karl Ouimette for instance. At 23/24 he dropped down to the USL level, but the conversation around him wasn't that he's a prospect. The conversation was that he's no longer considered an option. This was despite the fact he had already played nearly 40 MLS matches, hit the double digit cap mark for Canada, and even played in a WCQ.

Ouimette accomplished all that while Didic, at the same age, has no MLS games under his belt, no senior caps and definitely no WCQ appearances. So why is Didic a prospect again?

I think it's just because Didic is expected (at least by some) to move up a level, while Ouimette moved in the wrong direction. But it begs the question, when is he just a player who couldn't find a game in MLS? 25? 26? 27?

I read a lot of complaints that Jakovic is too slow, or Vitoria, but Didic is really not going to help in this department. 

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I agree Obinna, I am not thinking Didic (any 20+ year old USL guys) I mentioned are going to become national team players, but the thread is about depth and they are the next level down and heres hoping one of those guys pulls a MA Kaye  (another usl type that is almost 24 and only made his break though this last year).  My point wasnt that Didic was a prospect, but that with our pool so shallow we cant write off many CB, or RB.  

BUT..in fact Didic is 23 not 24, funny how it goes from he's almost 24, to he is 24 and then the next guy says he's going to be 25, etc etc.  And to be fair, dIdnt Ouimette play mostly RB and even some RM??  Not really a CB, but He should be in a DEPTH conversation as well.  I never understood how he dropped off the radar while we are trying to convert Petrasso or Aird into RB.  

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1 hour ago, Footscray said:

Herdman should work on Nick Hagglund.  He's been with tfc long enough to get Canadian citizenship fairly easily now if I'm not mistaken and has never got a look from the US.  Cb depth is pretty bad and he'd be in the picture for a while as he's still fairly young.

Nick Haglund lol  I can see now a dream center back pairing of Haglund and Henry, Qatar 2022 he we come lol!

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9 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I agree Obinna, I am not thinking Didic (any 20+ year old USL guys) I mentioned are going to become national team players, but the thread is about depth and they are the next level down and heres hoping one of those guys pulls a MA Kaye  (another usl type that is almost 24 and only made his break though this last year).  My point wasnt that Didic was a prospect, but that with our pool so shallow we cant write off many CB, or RB.  

BUT..in fact Didic is 23 not 24, funny how it goes from he's almost 24, to he is 24 and then the next guy says he's going to be 25, etc etc.  And to be fair, dIdnt Ouimette play mostly RB and even some RM??  Not really a CB, but He should be in a DEPTH conversation as well.  I never understood how he dropped off the radar while we are trying to convert Petrasso or Aird into RB.  

Thanks for the clarification, I see where you are coming from, but:

- Ouimette is a natural CB that played a lot of RB for Canada because, as you know, that was a problem area for years. I think it's to Karl's credit that he was essentially played out of position and held his own. He never played RM by the way. But I do agree he should be in this depth chart, and ahead of Didic.

- Didic is 23 right now, but will be 24 in just a few months time. He's a 1994 with a late birthday. Even if he was a 95, the same arguments hold weight. Instead of comparing him with a player 2 years his senior (Ouimette 1992), I would compare him with Henry (1993).

- The thing about MAK is that he was clearly talented and playing at a level where he really stood out (with Louisville). From the time I saw him in Qatar with the U23's, I said "now this guy will be a player".

When I saw Didic, I immediately thought "this guy is not good enough". Now obviously I don't have a crystal ball, and I would love to be wrong about Didic, but I just don't see him ever earning any caps for Canada, so I guess we are in agreement there.

To me, the point of a depth chart should be to map out players with a realistic chance to play for us, with a cut off at players who realistically won't. So Didic should not be on this list based on those standards (in my opinion). 

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8 hours ago, 1996 said:

Nick Haglund lol  I can see now a dream center back pairing of Haglund and Henry, Qatar 2022 he we come lol!

I think he's better than many of the names being discussed personally... major contributor to a team that went to the mls finals two years in a row.  Moot point anyway as it's unlikely he goes through the hassle of nationalizing to play a few internationals but you never know if the experience appeals and He's enjoyed Canada.  Miles ahead of guys who are still in the ncaa or random euro 3rd and 4th divs anyway and wouldn't hurt to add to our pool.

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11 hours ago, Footscray said:

Herdman should work on Nick Hagglund.  He's been with tfc long enough to get Canadian citizenship fairly easily now if I'm not mistaken and has never got a look from the US.  Cb depth is pretty bad and he'd be in the picture for a while as he's still fairly young.

Hasn't this whole thread been bitching about Henry, a played with athletic gifts but prone to mental errors?

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Let's just hope our attack can outscore the opposition.  I'm perfectly fine with 5-4 wins!!  Our center back are our weak spot and against top teams will be exposed.  I always though Henry had tons of quality, but as others have said he just makes way to many stupid mistakes, and I don't see how you coach that out of a player.  James I do like, but at 25 I would hope he would be playing at a higher level then danish 2nd division.  I admit I don't know too much about cornelius and haven't seen much of him personally.  I really like Edgar but with his injuries and age I don't think he is a serious contender.  Straith is good for depth if needed, but should be considered for a starting spot.  And this may be a personal bias, but Vittoria I don't want to rely on as a starter.  Hopefully there are some good young kids coming up who will break into the first team and provide the rock and the back that we need

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9 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

This depth is terrible.  Our back line will either be very old and slow, or athletic and error prone. Or both. There is no sugar coating this. Our back line is at a historic low point.

 

I keep seeing this opinion, but I don't think our CBs have been that great over the time I've been following the national team, with a few exceptions. Outside of De Vos and McKenna, have any of the CBs we've fielded over the last 20 years been significantly better than what he have now?

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54 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I keep seeing this opinion, but I don't think our CBs have been that great over the time I've been following the national team, with a few exceptions. Outside of De Vos and McKenna, have any of the CBs we've fielded over the last 20 years been significantly better than what he have now?

I suspect the sentiment that depth/quality is low is largely being advanced in the context of the bell curve of the rest of the squad.  When players from unattached FC were still being called up in other positions, the current calibre of backline would not look out of place.  But when we have had a quantum leap in the pedigree of many of our players (and it really is everywhere except the back line) I think they just look weak by comparison.  Given the other players we now have at our disposal, there is a feeling that if we continue failing to get results, it will likely be due to that group, and not the others.

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18 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Didic is a very fine player, when I've seen him I've liked him a lot.

I'd like him to find a way into more minutes at a higher level. All I see is upside. Does anyone know his weak points?

 

From what I remember, a lack of pace. 

Someone more familiar can challenge that if I am off base, but from what I recall, he had JGL pace.

 

Edited by Obinna
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Have seen Didic play in person several times. His pure pace is certainly less than Henry or James but moves fairly well for a really big dude

his decision making playing out of the back and defensive instincts are typically very good and so he spends much less time “recovering” than james and henry which helps him compensate for less pure athleticism / speed than the others. He is also disadvantaged in the sense that Cornelius is younger, but Didic, much like Straith should be a long term reliable CB at whatever level he ultimately lands. 

Have heard that DeVos is with the team this time around. Coincidence??

if this is a forward looking thread, names like Dunn and LeBourhis (spelling?) might need to be in the mix, esp if they get called to U20 and show well. 

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2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I suspect the sentiment that depth/quality is low is largely being advanced in the context of the bell curve of the rest of the squad.  When players from unattached FC were still being called up in other positions, the current calibre of backline would not look out of place.  But when we have had a quantum leap in the pedigree of many of our players (and it really is everywhere except the back line) I think they just look weak by comparison.  Given the other players we now have at our disposal, there is a feeling that if we continue failing to get results, it will likely be due to that group, and not the others.

I think this is largely true.  We have seen the rest of the talent pool grow by leaps and bounds the last 2 years and our CB depth is largely unchanged, just 2 years older.

Henry, Straith, Cornelius  and James are all pretty good players but there hasn’t been a very good to great player emerge.  I think Henry had a chance but due to injuries he stagnated a bit at the MLS level.

Most of the other CONCACAF teams would be thrilled to have those 4 as the primary depth but against the US, Costs Rica and Mexico we will continue to struggle.

On the other hand those 4 are probably good enough to qualify for 2022 if the rest of the team is solid, so it’s not like all is lost here.

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16 hours ago, KMB said:

I always though Henry had tons of quality, but as others have said he just makes way to many stupid mistakes, and I don't see how you coach that out of a player.

I long believed that Henry was good at the things you can't coach, and bad at the things you CAN coach. I think limiting stupid mistakes is exactly the kind of thing you can coach out of a player. However, all these years later and it feels like it's still a problem (I don't watch much Whitecaps, so my observations are just anecdotal). I'm a lot less inclined to think he'll significantly improve that aspect of his game now.

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38 minutes ago, Kent said:

I long believed that Henry was good at the things you can't coach, and bad at the things you CAN coach. I think limiting stupid mistakes is exactly the kind of thing you can coach out of a player. However, all these years later and it feels like it's still a problem (I don't watch much Whitecaps, so my observations are just anecdotal). I'm a lot less inclined to think he'll significantly improve that aspect of his game now.

Well expressed. If just keeps his hands down or you could say the penalty was harsh, then we'd all be saying had a good game. Okay, in MLS terms, and in Caps terms, but still. 

Since you see players doing these extreme discipline things with hand behind back, totally unnaturally, and they are old veterans who have only started to control hands in the area past the age of 30, you have to insist he frigging well learn that trick. 

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