Christine Sinclair calls out CSA

[matty]

4 hours ago, Keegan said:

To be fair this is about the game and it appears that our biggest (only?) advertising medium has now been slashed.  I imagine it will start up again at some point closer to the game but it’s unfortunate. 

Dude they've been running a ton of subway ads in Toronto for the game for about a month already. They feature Davies, Oso and Hoilett.

[jpg75]

I can't believe the sexism in this thread, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Thinking that a strong woman like Christine Sinclair needs you to pipe in and defend her is just patriarchy at it's finest. She's a big girl, she can take the criticism. We have to stop treating women like they need to be protected.

Continue the bashing.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

I can't believe the sexism in this thread, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Thinking that a strong woman like Christine Sinclair needs you to pipe in and defend her is just patriarchy at it's finest. She's a big girl, she can take the criticism. We have to stop treating women like they need to be protected.

Continue the bashing.

LOL you so silly. These folks don't need your permission to keep shitting on someone for the sake of shitting.

[Keegan]

Everyone LOVES Christine. If you don’t you can’t call yourself a Canadian but it’s okay to call out someone’s behaviour/ignorance (even if said person is a woman *gasp*). 

I’ve never heard Sinclair called out just like I’ve never heard Atiba called out.  But if Atiba made a passive aggressive comment on a tweet about a young lady committing to Canada we would all (hopefully) have a problem with that.. and he would actually have more of a gripe all things considered.

[matty]

7 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Everyone LOVES Christine. If you don’t you can’t call yourself a Canadian but it’s okay to call out someone’s behaviour/ignorance (even if said person is a woman *gasp*). 

Lol did I say you couldn't or that she was right? No.

I think this thread is getting a ton of info wrong and contributes nothing other than the stale shit that is killing these forums.

She has a valid point when you consider that it's the concacaf women's championship and the gold cup got a ton of promotion from the csa but she's wrong to think it warrants as much or near as much promotion from the csa as a home game. her promotion complaint should be directly towards concacaf or this is thing

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

9 hours ago, paul-collins said:

So, she's about to begin the qualification tournament for next year's World Cup, where hopes are high that our team will have a chance to go deep, and she's disappointed that CSA hasn't even been able to secure coverage - not even streaming - and everyone's takeaway is that she's being mean?

This is a bad take, fellas.

Agree 100%. The CSA had yet to announce if the games were being broadcast. Since the games are not a home, and they didn't even announce a stream, of course the coverage was not at the same level on social media!

This is what Sinclair was on about, don't blame everyone else's reaction to her tweet on her. my goodness!

This is an eager Canadian Press journalist (Neil Davidson?) blowing something out of proportion by creating a whole article out of 1 tweet.

[Keegan]

I assume you mean it should be directed at the CSA and I agree @matty.  

I think she has a point somewhat because the CSA generally falls short on promotion for all teams but it came off as passive aggressive and that’s the way Neil Davidson (the king of ignorance) and many Canadians took it as well unfortunately.  

I think the women and their fans have been left genuinely hurt by Herdman leaving them because they truly felt they were the top team and they act as if the MNT has some scheme to steal him.  But it was HIS choice and his right to aim for a higher level.  If anything our women deserve incredible kudos for being the first team in history to have their coach move to the men’s equivalent.. they carried him there.

[Kent]

I feel like if you can forget about the article, or whatever comments you read (I didn’t read them) and just look at the tweet in isolation, this really isn’t a big deal. I think it’s being over analyzed to death and people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Keegan]

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

I feel like if you can forget about the article, or whatever comments you read (I didn’t read them) and just look at the tweet in isolation, this really isn’t a big deal. I think it’s being over analyzed to death and people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Well the problem now is the CSA abandoned all men’s coverage.. for a week straight they had been on a roll getting people hyped and now they’re too scared to even post.  Coincidence? Of course not.

The blame should be spread across everyone.. probably mainly Davidson for the article because otherwise it wouldn’t have affected anything. 

[Bison44]

Maybe the ladies are missing Herdman??  He is a shameless promoter (not a bad thing) and knows how to get air time and coverage for his team.  And now he is doing it for the men and maybe pushing the hype needle a little bit more towards the mens side.  Good for Sinclair to remind CSA, but I dont see a feud or anything serious coming out of this.  

[matty]

10 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I assume you mean it should be directed at the CSA and I agree @matty.  

I think she has a point somewhat because the CSA generally falls short on promotion for all teams but it came off as passive aggressive and that’s the way Neil Davidson (the king of ignorance) and many Canadians took it as well unfortunately.  

I think the women and their fans have been left genuinely hurt by Herdman leaving them because they truly felt they were the top team and they act as if the MNT has some scheme to steal him.  But it was HIS choice and his right to aim for a higher level.  If anything our women deserve incredible kudos for being the first team in history to have their coach move to the men’s equivalent.. they carried him there.

the csa is falling well short in drumming up support for a team that's about to play in a major tournament while going in on a somewhat minor home game. that statement is 100% true. there's an easy fix and that's mention the women's tournament more than a few times in the 2-3 weeks leading up to it. i'm pretty sure sinclair understands and accepts the csa has to promote the dominica game and are going to promote it more than the tournament but i think you and everyone here can accept the csa has really done a shit job on their end promoting the women's tournament.

i don't think this really has anything to do with herdman and is just sinclair, who adores the women's game and is a feminist, speaking about what she sees as some bullshit (which is 100% fine) and because she is famous which is why the media picked this up.

[Shway]

no one wants to say what it really is. 

The mens game is and has always been more important in the local, national, and global perspective. 

Equality in sports comes down to the comparison of Quality. The same debates are made about the USMNT vs the USWNT, but the reality is neglected or "politically correctly" dealt with.

[matty]

13 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

no one wants to say what it really is. 

The mens game is and has always been more important in the local, national, and global perspective. 

Equality in sports comes down to the comparison of Quality. The same debates are made about the USMNT vs the USWNT, but the reality is neglected or "politically correctly" dealt with.

Thank you for supporting my comment about who gets more ink in a standard year.

And you're 100% right, the men's game is far bigger than the women's game, even when it comes to Canada's national programs. There's more money to be made from it and put into it and it generates more attention (the later is something a lot of folks here do not seem to get).

I disagree on it being about the comparison of quality (if your talking about some level of play thing which many often do) but instead what happens outside of the national team picture and, of course, the history of the men's game compared to the women's game. We've seen women can be as popular as men when it comes to sports (individual sports like tennis, MMA and skating mainly) but it does have a lot to do with presentation and history.

I think you could argue PC here but, like the US case, it's a popular athlete criticizing the national body very publicly on a matter that they do have a fairly valid point on: the promotion on the CSA's end for the Women's Tournament is meh at best and should be better as it is a major tournament. 

[SthMelbRed]

First thing I did when I entered this thread was to click on the CBC.ca link and read the actual tweet by Sinclair. The second thing I did was look at the fact that we had 3 pages of comments on this bit of nothing and despaired for the world we currently live in.

[Obinna]

11 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

This is what Sinclair was on about, don't blame everyone else's reaction to her tweet on her. my goodness!

This is an eager Canadian Press journalist (Neil Davidson?) blowing something out of proportion by creating a whole article out of 1 tweet.

I agree with your comment about the Canadian Press. However, when it comes to Sinclair being blameless, I think you are way off the mark.

Like others have said, she could have simply talked to the CSA in private, and if she felt this tweet was the best way to force their hand, then fine, but you got to take responsibility either way.

She is clearly responsible for the CSA's reaction (more canwnt coverage), but isn't responsible for the media's reaction or the fans reaction? Media is going to create stories out of nothing and fans are going to debate and be critical. That is what we do.

And the CSA is going step their promotion game up when a legend calls them out publicly. All of these reactions are predictable, which is why she did it in the first place. She set the wheels in motion, so to say she deserves praise for the good (increased promotion) but no criticism for the bad (increased criticism) for the same act is disingenuous.

[Admin]

Has anyone asked Neil Davidson why he hadn't covered Women's World Cup Qualifying before that article?

[Admin]

There is a third posbility here. 

The whole thing was intended as a casual transition from the beginning.   "Hey what about us....."   "...  here you go Sinc..."

And in today's climate it was read wrong by the reactionary masses. 

 

[paul-collins]

Just now, admin said:

There is a third posbility here. 

The whole thing was intended as a casual transition from the beginning.   "Hey what about us....."   "...  here you go Sinc..."

And in today's climate it was read wrong by the reactionary masses. 

 

Can't say the thought hadn't occurred to me.  I saw the tweets first and I was actually kind of glad the two events were being promoted in the same thread.

Honestly I'd love if there was quid pro quo, with some suggestion of interplay between the teams.  Say, Oso promoting the WWCQ tournament followed by Jessie doing a spot for the Dominica game.

[RS]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Has anyone asked Neil Davidson why he hadn't covered Women's World Cup Qualifying before that article?

Eh... Davidson does pretty much everything for CP and will probably focus on the WNT now that the tournament is here.

Just checked his Twitter account and his most recent article of any kind is one on the Erin McLeod injury.

[Keegan]

22 minutes ago, paul-collins said:

Can't say the thought hadn't occurred to me.  I saw the tweets first and I was actually kind of glad the two events were being promoted in the same thread.

Honestly I'd love if there was quid pro quo, with some suggestion of interplay between the teams.  Say, Oso promoting the WWCQ tournament followed by Jessie doing a spot for the Dominica game.

Yes! This is how it should be.  Christine Sinclair is an icon and she has never said a word in support of our MNT.. we could use her support!  Christine alone would generate more press than the CSA.  Why isn’t this done?  I can only assume there’s some jealousy/competition in their minds because it’s always struck me as odd the pitting of our men v women by the general public.. I’m sure they revel in the comments of “you guys could beat our men’s team”. 

When I played high school hockey our girls team was national champs and our guys team was average yet we would be the team people came out for.. it obviously ticked the girls off and there was jealousy despite any and every guy supporting our girls and going to games.  

Edit: this example is probably more akin to the USA than us since our women’s team is more popular.  Of course I can understand that our women probably love the fact we’re the one country where the women’s team is more relevant and they don’t want to concede that. 

[Admin]

27 minutes ago, paul-collins said:

Can't say the thought hadn't occurred to me.  I saw the tweets first and I was actually kind of glad the two events were being promoted in the same thread.

Honestly I'd love if there was quid pro quo, with some suggestion of interplay between the teams.  Say, Oso promoting the WWCQ tournament followed by Jessie doing a spot for the Dominica game.

Yeah, but it might backfire.   On the women's side, not the men's.  I hate to even use the word side. 

Some of the criticism of the people reacting negatively to this should at least be walked back enough to see they are upset because of the respect they have for her and how much they think she matters to the game in general.  There may be more, but I got really bored of reading it all to be honest. 

As someone who has spent a very very long time handing out fliers, putting up posters working at booths and tables in Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver,  soccer shows ect.....    I can say it is not obvious that you would want women's players promoting the men's game.  There is a significant number of people in the women's fan base who would straight up see that as a betrayal.  Their vitriol for the mens' team, and I have experienced this first hand everywhere is astonishing.   

The conversation with people who don't watch women's soccer is very different than with those who don't watch the men's team.  With those who don't watch the women's game, it is almost always technical.  They don't watch it because of the quality of the play.  Practice makes perfect in these conversations and what I say to them now is something along the lines of the amazing rate of change in the women's game.  For example teams we used to beat 21-0 now are/or almost are competitive matches.   Almost universally they find this interesting. You can now have a conversation about progress, coaching and change.   They leave with an interest and a positive vibe.

No such thing when talking to those who don't watch the men's game.  The conversation is never about soccer. It is best in my experience to extricate yourself asap before you are seen as literally a collaborator of some kind.   

 

 

 

 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

Yeah, but it might backfire.   On the women's side, not the men's.  I hate to even use the word side. 

Some of the criticism of the people reacting negatively to this should at least be walked back enough to see they are upset because of the respect they have for her and how much they think she matters to the game in general.  There may be more, but I got really bored of reading it all to be honest. 

As someone who has spent a very very long time handing out fliers, putting up posters working at booths and tables in Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver,  soccer shows ect.....    I can say it is not obvious that you would want women's players promoting the men's game.  There is a significant number of people in the women's fan base who would straight up see that as a betrayal.  Their vitriol for the mens' team, and I have experienced this first hand everywhere is astonishing.   

The conversation with people who don't watch women's soccer is very different than with those who don't watch the men's team.  With those who don't watch the women's game, it is almost always technical.  They don't watch it because of the quality of the play.  Practice makes perfect in these conversations and what I say to them now is something along the lines of the astonishing rate of change in the women's game.  For example teams we used to beat 21-0 now are/or almost are competitive matches.   Almost universally they find this interesting. You can now have a conversation about progress, coaching and change.   They leave with an interest and a positive vibe.

No such thing when talking to those who don't watch the men's game.  The conversation is never about soccer. It is best in my experience to extricate yourself asap before you are seen as literally a collaborator of some kind.   

 

 

 

 

This is absolutely bang on.

[Keegan]

If you’re passionate enough to be on this board you’ve probably experienced something similar to Jamie. 

Its incredibly frustrating and the psychology behind it even more so. Until the MNT does something significant or becomes mainstream there’s almost nothing you can do. 

 

[El Diego]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

Yeah, but it might backfire.   On the women's side, not the men's.  I hate to even use the word side. 

Some of the criticism of the people reacting negatively to this should at least be walked back enough to see they are upset because of the respect they have for her and how much they think she matters to the game in general.  There may be more, but I got really bored of reading it all to be honest. 

As someone who has spent a very very long time handing out fliers, putting up posters working at booths and tables in Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver,  soccer shows ect.....    I can say it is not obvious that you would want women's players promoting the men's game.  There is a significant number of people in the women's fan base who would straight up see that as a betrayal.  Their vitriol for the mens' team, and I have experienced this first hand everywhere is astonishing.   

The conversation with people who don't watch women's soccer is very different than with those who don't watch the men's team.  With those who don't watch the women's game, it is almost always technical.  They don't watch it because of the quality of the play.  Practice makes perfect in these conversations and what I say to them now is something along the lines of the amazing rate of change in the women's game.  For example teams we used to beat 21-0 now are/or almost are competitive matches.   Almost universally they find this interesting. You can now have a conversation about progress, coaching and change.   They leave with an interest and a positive vibe.

No such thing when talking to those who don't watch the men's game.  The conversation is never about soccer. It is best in my experience to extricate yourself asap before you are seen as literally a collaborator of some kind.   

Disappointing to read that, but it made me realize that a large part of the reason I got more upset about this tweet was because of the twitter comments (I know, I know: NEVER READ THE COMMENTS). Most of them are from supporters of the WNT (and I use that term colloquially, I don't think many of them actually go to the games, more likely they are supporters of women) who don't know anything about what's going on and are bashing the MNT. I get if you are trying to advance women's sport but 1. The situation isn't as you think it is, and 2. You can do so without bringing anyone else down. I saw tweets saying how garbage the men's team is so why do we support them... like isn't this attitude exactly what many women's sports supporters (rightly) get upset about?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

https://www.canadasoccer.com/canadian-soccer-business-csb-a-new-sports-enterprise-now-represents-premier-soccer-properties-in-canada--p161479

....Canadian Soccer Business now represents the following:

• On behalf of Canada Soccer, all corporate partnerships and broadcast rights for Women’s and Men’s National Team Programs...

Could see this sort of thing lumbering over the horizon when I read this, because if you are a CWNT player or supporter what that implies is that the CSA is directing money being generated by the relative success of the women's national team to boost a men's domestic pro league that has announced no definite timeline for the launch of a women's league. Add to that the CWNT coach moving over to the CMNT recently and the 2026 World Cup hosting and there is likely to be a shift in focus increasingly over to the men's team, so the CWNT vs CMNT tension is probably only going to build in the years ahead, unfortunately.