Goderich CPL

[Unnamed Trialist]

This is not a joke thread, it is a thread that exposes the joke that Canadian pro soccer has been. Let's not be confused.

If a deep pocket from Goderich wanted to build a stadium and spend the yearly amount for a team, indefinitely, what is the precise reason to prohibit that from happening?

Of if the townspeople were to get on the bandwagon in a big way. What is the reason for not thinking that could be viable?

[Keegan]

I see Goderich won some kraft local competition for right to play or something along those lines.  Maybe this inspiration is the next step?  It’s commendable if this is a genuine effort, it’s going to at the very least turn some heads.

[Admin]

Still making Goderich shirts.

Screw all you haters.

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, if this isn't a joke/troll thread, you will basically have to wait until there are at least 3 or 4 tiers of CPL before entry would be realistic.  If the province of PEI (and it is essentially a single market with 90+% of the 150,000 population within 45 minutes of Charlottetown) is deemed too small to sustain a team given the costs involved, the idea that a town of 7000 can do it is pretty unrealistic.

And to build on what jpg intimated, it could be interpreted as borderline insulting to CPL to pretend that Goderich is the level of Division 1 soccer we can expect from the league.

[Blackjack15]

Wow I saw an ad on TSN

Apparently Goderich was selected for the Kraft Project Play 

Don’t know if that’s a coincidence or not, considering one is serious and the other is not (CPL)

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, if this isn't a joke/troll thread, you will basically have to wait until there are at least 3 or 4 tiers of CPL before entry would be realistic.  If the province of PEI (and it is essentially a single market with 90+% of the 150,000 population within 45 minutes of Charlottetown) is deemed too small to sustain a team given the costs involved, the idea that a town of 7000 can do it is pretty unrealistic.

And to build on what jpg intimated, it could be interpreted as borderline insulting to CPL to pretend that Goderich is the level of Division 1 soccer we can expect from the league.

In top flight Spain, arguably the best in the world, there are now four teams in towns smaller than the population of PEI. 

True, European demographics tend to draw from denser regions. 

But the point is to let them all complete. We have no league and a highly defensive anti competitive mentality, based on monopolistic trusts, that we think is how to solve the national embarrassment of no league.

When all we need to do is let them play like the rest of the world does.  Let them play and let that decide, not looking at the census stats.

[Alex D]

I am all for an open pyramid, but this is totally a joke thread by a troll who doesn't really get trolling. I would wager he has the same IP address as mister215 and tg11. 

[deschamp86]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

In top flight Spain, arguably the best in the world, there are now four teams in towns smaller than the population of PEI. 

True, European demographics tend to draw from denser regions. 

But the point is to let them all complete. We have no league and a highly defensive anti competitive mentality, based on monopolistic trusts, that we think is how to solve the national embarrassment of no league.

When all we need to do is let them play like the rest of the world does.  Let them play and let that decide, not looking at the census stats.

Yes, I agree that they should all be able to compete.

The point is that no structure has yet been properly established, and so larger markets need to be set up before a town of 7,000. I would love the day that a town the size of Goderich is in the CPL (First Div) but that time is not anytime soon

[Shortdutchcanuck]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

In top flight Spain, arguably the best in the world, there are now four teams in towns smaller than the population of PEI. 

True, European demographics tend to draw from denser regions. 

But the point is to let them all complete. We have no league and a highly defensive anti competitive mentality, based on monopolistic trusts, that we think is how to solve the national embarrassment of no league.

 

Apples and oranges in my opinion.  The soccer pyramids in Spain and England developed organically over a long period of time in countries with a deep soccer culture right down to the grassroots level.  Also in countries with minimal (comparatively) travel requirements.  The 4 teams in smaller towns in La Liga arrived there via a series of promotions through the pyramid.  They did not suddenly start up a team and immediately gain entry to La Liga.  And as you stated they generally tap denser surrounding populations than Goderich has access to.

By your argument we should not be starting CanPL at all.  We should let it develop organically, as some teams from L1O or PLSQ become more ambitious and outgrow regional leagues and band together to form a national league with the regional leagues as lower divisions.  This sounds great in theory but there are no signs of it actually happening and we can't afford to wait another 10 or 20 years to see if it does.

So we have to do it backwards.  We have to implement the top level very carefully, with properly vetted owners, and in my opinion a salary cap and franchise fees (however much people hate the term franchise) to keep shady owners away since the league cannot afford many big failures early on.

 Then over a period of 5-10 years we solidify that top tier and add a second division west and a second division east, while incorporating L10, PLSQ, and similar leagues out west and down east, as a potential 3rd division of semi-pro/amateur teams.  At that point perhaps an ambitious L1O team like Oakville could decide to go fully pro, win the league, move up to DII and eventually to the CanPL.

So I applaud someone in Goderich for getting the ball rolling (though I am a little cynical as to whether they represent actual significant interest in the town, because I know grew up in rural Ontario where interest in soccer might be growing but not nearly at the rate it is in larger urban centres).  I don't think it is a joke thread or an impossibility but I do think it is a joke to think of Goderich in the league any time soon.  

The path for them is this: get a small field built with room for expansion and find an owner willing to finance a L1O team (though even the travel of L10 would be difficult for an amateur team).  Become one of the more successful and well-backed L10 teams so that when CanPL D2 rolls around they are on the map.  Join D2 or promote to D2 and expand field capacity to 7-10,000.  Promote to CanPL.

This would be a magnificent and inspiring story but it is a long-term process that involves many variables coming perfectly together.  I wish them good luck and hope to see them winning the L1O title soon.

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Shortdutchcanuck

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

They do have a nice field at the Agricultural Park that could be developed a bit with bleachers. Been there as a coach rather than a player many years back. WOSL (London, Ont's local district amateur league) would be a more likely starting point than L1O as you need a large population to have the players needed locally to compete with what the GTA has to offer. Even WOSL might be asking for regular defeats that would quickly get old, although some of the more rural clubs do OK in that context. 

[Admin]

There is way too much high level analysis in this thread.

I will make it my life mission now to get CanPL into Goderich. 

Line in sand is drawn.  Anyone against us takes said position at their own peril. 

[CanPL4Goderich]

We aren't targeting the immediate future. I don't think I have said that once. This is a marathon, not a sprint. 

 

Support us!

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Apples and oranges in my opinion.  The soccer pyramids in Spain and England developed organically over a long period of time in countries with a deep soccer culture right down to the grassroots level.  Also in countries with minimal (comparatively) travel requirements.  The 4 teams in smaller towns in La Liga arrived there via a series of promotions through the pyramid.  They did not suddenly start up a team and immediately gain entry to La Liga.  And as you stated they generally tap denser surrounding populations than Goderich has access to.

By your argument we should not be starting CanPL at all.  We should let it develop organically, as some teams from L1O or PLSQ become more ambitious and outgrow regional leagues and band together to form a national league with the regional leagues as lower divisions.  This sounds great in theory but there are no signs of it actually happening and we can't afford to wait another 10 or 20 years to see if it does.

So we have to do it backwards.  We have to implement the top level very carefully, with properly vetted owners, and in my opinion a salary cap and franchise fees (however much people hate the term franchise) to keep shady owners away since the league cannot afford many big failures early on.

 Then over a period of 5-10 years we solidify that top tier and add a second division west and a second division east, while incorporating L10, PLSQ, and similar leagues out west and down east, as a potential 3rd division of semi-pro/amateur teams.  At that point perhaps an ambitious L1O team like Oakville could decide to go fully pro, win the league, move up to DII and eventually to the CanPL.

So I applaud someone in Goderich for getting the ball rolling (though I am a little cynical as to whether they represent actual significant interest in the town, because I know grew up in rural Ontario where interest in soccer might be growing but not nearly at the rate it is in larger urban centres).  I don't think it is a joke thread or an impossibility but I do think it is a joke to think of Goderich in the league any time soon.  

The path for them is this: get a small field built with room for expansion and find an owner willing to finance a L1O team (though even the travel of L10 would be difficult for an amateur team).  Become one of the more successful and well-backed L10 teams so that when CanPL D2 rolls around they are on the map.  Join D2 or promote to D2 and expand field capacity to 7-10,000.  Promote to CanPL.

This would be a magnificent and inspiring story but it is a long-term process that involves many variables coming perfectly together.  I wish them good luck and hope to see them winning the L1O title soon.

 

Of course you are right, well expressed.

The point, as I see it, is that the supposed "right" way to set up a league in Canada, has not, historically, been any more successful than any other method. So why not try those methods instead of ruling them out a priori? We are on this CPL bandwagon, yelling this is how it is done, when in fact we have no clue how it is done, we are the most ignorant country in the world in this regard.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

We already have lots of leagues and lots of clubs. Maybe at some point we'll start supporting them and building them up to be all they can be? More soccer in Goderich is something to strive for. Getting a well-funded local senior level club up and running that can compete in the Ontario Cup would be the obvious starting point for a town like Goderich then down the road if interest really takes off in a big way who knows what the future holds, if interest in the pro level continues to boom? There is a cultural issue with Canadian soccer (particularly on the men's side of things) that organized competitive soccer involving a reasonable level of match fitness through training as well as games is something that is viewed by many/most as ending after youth level and U-sports. That means that the elite amateur leagues that do exist and often play to a very reasonable standard tend to be dominated by ethnic clubs who have a very different mentality about where soccer fits in the larger scheme of things. That in turn means the mainstream media outlets out in the boonies won't give it the coverage they would to something like the Goderich Flyers in Junior C hockey. No easy answers on this.

[Kent]

On 8/13/2018 at 10:25 PM, Tigers said:

Ooh, get sponsored BF Goodrich. 

I just saw on Goderich’s Wikipedia page that one of the two founders of the town was named Dunlop. Tire company bidding war?!?

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, Kent said:

I just saw on Goderich’s Wikipedia page that one of the two founders of the town was named Dunlop. Tire company bidding war?!?

I looked at the Wiki page and came across the Steven Truscott story; then it turns out there are a few more infamous cases, including a trial on this summer. I am not sure why I am repeating this, other than the fact that I ended up, perhaps morbidly, reading the case in detail. Maybe Goderich really does need a team to help offer the world a more uplifting image of the town.

So, to CanPL4Goderich (and tell me to FO if this is not fair): what is the opinion in the town? Innocent or guilty?

[CanPL4Goderich]

We were recently featured the Maple Leaf Forever blog. https://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/2018/08/28/goderich-is-canada/

[tyler453]

Wtf did I just read?

[ChrisinOrleans]

1 hour ago, CanPL4Goderich said:

We were recently featured the Maple Leaf Forever blog. https://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/2018/08/28/goderich-is-canada/

I don't know if I would be proud of being mentioned on that blog. 

[matty]

On 8/16/2018 at 2:21 AM, Alex D said:

I am all for an open pyramid, but this is totally a joke thread by a troll who doesn't really get trolling. I would wager he has the same IP address as mister215 and tg11. 

Nah those guys were artists

[Blackjack15]

2 hours ago, CanPL4Goderich said:

We were recently featured the Maple Leaf Forever blog. https://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/2018/08/28/goderich-is-canada/

This is the last part of the article:

“CanPL for Goderich? We should all hope so. Not because that town is something special, but because it isn’t.”

???

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I don't know if I would be proud of being mentioned on that blog. 

"That blog" huh.  I'd treat it as a badge of honour.  It is both insightful, humorous and passionate about Canadian soccer.  Not sure there is a better place for the Goderich in CPL to be written about.

[Kent]

13 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I don't know if I would be proud of being mentioned on that blog. 

Is it possible to like a like? I like the fact that Lord Bob liked this comment.

[Admin]

I don't see why people are calling this guy a troll.  Did I miss something?

I think this is awesome.

[ChrisinOrleans]

22 hours ago, kacbru said:

"That blog" huh.  I'd treat it as a badge of honour.  It is both insightful, humorous and passionate about Canadian soccer.  Not sure there is a better place for the Goderich in CPL to be written about.

I'll gladly retract my words when the blog is nominated for a Man Booker Prize, or the Governor General's Award in Literature. 

I will concede, it probably is the best place for Goderich CPL to be mentioned.