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The Importance of Alphonso Davies

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3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If you watch the first 20 min of the final Voyageurs Cup match, that description fits. Sorry to say. There were at least three cases of aiming low to foot or ankle, one protested intensely from the Caps bench, because the ref didn't even call a foul.

If our rival this week does anything similar I'll be interested to see the reactions. 

Yes I'm terrified of this. Especially because USVI is a team full of guys who aren't lucky enough to go pro. I really hope they aren't going to put a target on Davies back because he is acheiving what they haven't... and at such a young age.  I'm nervous every time I watch him in MLS as it really is exactly how MLS teams deal with stars they can't control. I remember seeing the same tactics used on Giovinco when he was lighting up the league. Can't stop him? STOP HIM... Part of me hopes he comes off at half time after we pot a few. 

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9 hours ago, villus said:

But this is the issue, these people are not acting in good faith and are choosing to be offended.  He's come out and said numerous times he's kneeling out of respect and is using peaceful protest and Trump is using it to distract and manipulate his base by inserting himself into the argument.  

So people can’t be offended by something they’ve quite literally risked their life for?  What makes you the arbiter of who is acting in good faith?  Is Kaepernick?  http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11574968/lamarr-houston-confirms-colin-kaepernick-used-n-word-chicago-bears-win-san-francisco-49ers 

this is the same guy who called someone the N word and most people thought was white.  He’s a racist/narcissist/provocateur who was on his way out and is now cosplaying as a black panther.  To me, this isn’t a person who is admirable.  Many people of colour have come out and said it offends them as well and he can’t alter his protest?  Raised fist?  Of course not.

But hey, with Nike’s human rights record and Kaps hypocrisy the two are a match made in heaven!  Funny how that works.. child labour to human rights watchdog.

onto someone who is admirable.. ALPHONSO DAVIES.  I’m thinking at least a brace on Sunday if he’s starting.

Edited by Keegan

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Just now, Keegan said:

So people can’t be offended by something they’ve quite literally risked their life for?  What makes you the arbiter of who is acting in good faith?  Is Kaepernick?  http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11574968/lamarr-houston-confirms-colin-kaepernick-used-n-word-chicago-bears-win-san-francisco-49ers 

this is the same guy who called someone the N word and most people thought was white.  He’s a racist/narcissist/provocateur who was on his way out and is now cosplaying as a black panther.  To me, this isn’t a person who is admirable.  Many people of colour have come out and said it offends them as well and he can’t alter his protest?  Raised fist?  Of course not.

But hey, with Nike’s human rights record and Kaps hypocrisy the two are a match made in heaven!  Funny how that works.. child labour to human rights watchdog.

onto someone who is admirable.. ALPHONSO DAVIES.  I’m thinking at least a brace on Sunday if he’s starting.

Kaepernick was not on his way out. That is a patent error. He was a starter for a leading team in the NFL. And has the talent to still be. 

What you have said about his racial or ethnic identification is also ridiculous, no person of Afro-American origin with some non-African ancestry is ever treated as white in the US. It is a social definition, it is how you are inscribed in society, because that is how the colour lines are drawn in the US, and frequently elsewhere. You cannot deliberately falsify that. 

Once we establish that, if a person who is racially partially, and socially fully, black in America, uses the "n" word, then you are going to have to have a bit more context than to call him "racist". I know there is a generational breach in its use, there is an empowerment argument that is quite complex, against others who feel the term is never justified. In the Afro-American community. You saying that everyone thought he was white and he used the "n" word is malicious and terrible reasoning to boot.

Otherwise, we are going to have to use your silly accusations on Drake, on J. Cole, the list is endless. 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What you have said about his racial or ethnic identification is also ridiculous, no person of Afro-American origin with some non-African ancestry is ever treated as non-black in the US. It is a social definition, it is how you are inscribed in society, because that is how the colour lines are drawn in the US

Clarified your statement, there are "blacks" of mixed race who are part black and part something other than white. Tiger Woods would be a prime example. I mentioned one time at a party that Tiger was discussing the positives of Buddhism in a press conference in Thailand at a tournament he decided to play in on the Asian tour (maybe 10-15 years ago, in his prime) and half the people didn't even realize his Mom was Thai.

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Kaepernick was not on his way out. That is a patent error. He was a starter for a leading team in the NFL. And has the talent to still be. 

What you have said about his racial or ethnic identification is also ridiculous, no person of Afro-American origin with some non-African ancestry is ever treated as white in the US. It is a social definition, it is how you are inscribed in society, because that is how the colour lines are drawn in the US, and frequently elsewhere. You cannot deliberately falsify that. 

Once we establish that, if a person who is racially partially, and socially fully, black in America, uses the "n" word, then you are going to have to have a bit more context than to call him "racist". I know there is a generational breach in its use, there is an empowerment argument that is quite complex, against others who feel the term is never justified. In the Afro-American community. You saying that everyone thought he was white and he used the "n" word is malicious and terrible reasoning to boot.

Otherwise, we are going to have to use your silly accusations on Drake, on J. Cole, the list is endless. 

I love how out of everthing keegan just said....nikes human rights record....Kaepernicks alleged black panther tendancies....coloured people not liking what he is doing......etc.....the only things you chose to comment on was the nature of being african american lol 

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What you have said about his racial or ethnic identification is also ridiculous, no person of Afro-American origin with some non-African ancestry is ever treated as non-black in the US. 

Pfff....clearly you don't follow the hodgetwins. ?

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Just now, Obinna said:

Pfff....clearly you don't follow the hodgetwins. ?

I actually do know that case fairly well, but they tend to get comments from Afro-Americans arguing they can't be black because they have blue eyes. And I don't think their explanation is so bad, they are not professionals at politics, but they do have something to say that is fairly basic and many people do not recognize or relate to. 

Maybe I am off-base, but I did respond to about 3 of Keegan's points. Sorry about the others I ignored.

I get that NIKE is a business and Kaepernick is making money now as by offering an image rather than a player, well those are fair arguments. Until you get to the part where judges are apparently agreeing that he has been boycotted by the league and the owners have shown collusion in doing so. Or that the reasons for kneeling, and the tradition of kneeling, both have a long history that should not be written off as disrespect, just the contrary. 

Federer just dumped Nike for Uniqlo. Just what values has Federer offered Nike over all these years? They guy cherry-picks what tournaments to play, and has a poor committment to his own Davis Cup team. He is an elegant, and for some, handsome player, with immense talent. But not a leader in any particular value set beyond playing the sport marvellously well.

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7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If you watch the first 20 min of the final Voyageurs Cup match, that description fits. Sorry to say. There were at least three cases of aiming low to foot or ankle, one protested intensely from the Caps bench, because the ref didn't even call a foul.

If our rival this week does anything similar I'll be interested to see the reactions. 

Davies will always get those kind of challenges, especially against weaker opponents, because he makes them look clumsy with his power and technique. It won't necessarily be because the USVI players are trying to hack him, it will be because they think the challenge is timed right but because they have never faced a guy with that speed and ability it will be way late.

Regarding the V Cup, I recall those challenges. The one where the Caps protested was not a foul imo (full disclosure, I am a TFC fan and I am working off memory), but the protests led to a foul being called later on a similar challenge that again, imo wasn't a foul. I understand and don't begrudge the protesting from the Caps, you have to protect your guys (especially your best guys). Canada will have to do the same to the referee if a similar thing happens against the USVI or any future opponents. 

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Kaepernick was not on his way out. That is a patent error. He was a starter for a leading team in the NFL. And has the talent to still be. 

What you have said about his racial or ethnic identification is also ridiculous, no person of Afro-American origin with some non-African ancestry is ever treated as white in the US. It is a social definition, it is how you are inscribed in society, because that is how the colour lines are drawn in the US, and frequently elsewhere. You cannot deliberately falsify that. 

Once we establish that, if a person who is racially partially, and socially fully, black in America, uses the "n" word, then you are going to have to have a bit more context than to call him "racist". I know there is a generational breach in its use, there is an empowerment argument that is quite complex, against others who feel the term is never justified. In the Afro-American community. You saying that everyone thought he was white and he used the "n" word is malicious and terrible reasoning to boot.

Otherwise, we are going to have to use your silly accusations on Drake, on J. Cole, the list is endless. 

Find me an example of someone calling someone the N word with a hard “er”.. where it was somehow culturally acceptable.  

I think Kap is a confused individual who probably felt a little left out of the black community and so he’s gone extreme.  I think it bothered him that he wasn’t considered a black QB, that he grew up with white parents etc. And you know, he clearly strayed from one extreme to the other instead.  

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5 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Find me an example of someone calling someone the N word with a hard “er”.. where it was somehow culturally acceptable.  

I think Kap is a confused individual who probably felt a little left out of the black community and so he’s gone extreme.  I think it bothered him that he wasn’t considered a black QB, that he grew up with white parents etc. And you know, he clearly strayed from one extreme to the other instead.  

You hit the nail on the head keegan.

As someone who is biracial, I saw that in him right away, because I can relate to that, growing up in newfoundland of all places. It's a typical case of identity crisis.

I do feel sorry for the guy.

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28 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You hit the nail on the head keegan.

As someone who is biracial, I saw that in him right away, because I can relate to that, growing up in newfoundland of all places. It's a typical case of identity crisis.

I do feel sorry for the guy.

I do as well in a way because while I don’t agree with him, I recognize he’s someone way in over his head.  He’s not really intelligent or a great speaker and I’m sure at this point he’d much rather be at square one realizing his boyhood dream as a NFL QB and protesting respectfully if he so chooses.  

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Since we are completely off topic, i'll share a little story with you. Last time I was in nigeria, playing soccer in the village, one kid walked up to me and called me snowman, which was pretty funny!

Used to play street soccer here in Vancouver with kids who were central American immigrants, and they always referred to me as "Blanquito". (I guess they didn't know the Spanish word for "beaver")

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2 hours ago, Keegan said:

Find me an example of someone calling someone the N word with a hard “er”.. where it was somehow culturally acceptable.  

I think Kap is a confused individual who probably felt a little left out of the black community and so he’s gone extreme.  I think it bothered him that he wasn’t considered a black QB, that he grew up with white parents etc. And you know, he clearly strayed from one extreme to the other instead.  

I play basketball here in Hong Kong with a bunch of guys that are local or mainlanders (not ABC’s) and they trash talk a lot and referred to themselves or their teammates using  the N word with a hard “Er”.  The first time I heard it I almost stop playing.  Now I just find it hilarious. I don’t have the heart to tell them it’s quite offensive as they think they are all LeBron and all that. 

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8 hours ago, Keegan said:

So people can’t be offended by something they’ve quite literally risked their life for?  What makes you the arbiter of who is acting in good faith?  Is Kaepernick?  http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11574968/lamarr-houston-confirms-colin-kaepernick-used-n-word-chicago-bears-win-san-francisco-49ers 

this is the same guy who called someone the N word and most people thought was white.  He’s a racist/narcissist/provocateur who was on his way out and is now cosplaying as a black panther.  To me, this isn’t a person who is admirable.  Many people of colour have come out and said it offends them as well and he can’t alter his protest?  Raised fist?  Of course not.

But hey, with Nike’s human rights record and Kaps hypocrisy the two are a match made in heaven!  Funny how that works.. child labour to human rights watchdog.

onto someone who is admirable.. ALPHONSO DAVIES.  I’m thinking at least a brace on Sunday if he’s starting.

Oh you mean all the soldiers who have come out and said that they risked their lives for the freedom for people like Kaepernick to protest?  Anyone can be offended for any reason they want, whether its logical or in any way related is a different story.  

Besides all that an anthem is simply a song, if people are more worried about the sacred anthem then they are of real people who are mistreated by police every day then I think their priorities are misplaced.  People are going to have an issue with however people protest if its against what they agree with, they always criticize protest for being violent or for disrupting businesses why can't they simply be peaceful?  His protest is peaceful and respectful and people still ***** and go after him, its not the protest or the manner but the fact that they do not want to consider or hear the reasons behind the protest. 

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Has a Canadian athlete ever featured in a Nike ad before? This has got to be a first for a Cdn soccer player. 

Davies ....our talisman. The incredible journey continues. He could be a one man marketing beacon for our program. Love it or not this is going to get loads of coverage.

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9 hours ago, Keegan said:

Many people of colour have come out and said it offends them as well and he can’t alter his protest?  Raised fist?  Of course not.

He did alter his protest. At first, he was sitting during the anthem, but a conversation with a US vet convinced him to kneel as a sign of respect.

That's what kneeling is. In every other instance of getting down on one knee it's a sign of respect, whether it's for a proposal, a monarch, or Zod. Yet somehow Kap's kneeling is disrespectful.

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9 hours ago, Keegan said:

 Many people of colour have come out and said it offends them as well and he can’t alter his protest? 

And many veterans have come out and said that they have no problem with his protest.   That they had proudly fought for freedom.  Which includes the freedom to peacefully protest injustices when they see them.

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16 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said:

And many veterans have come out and said that they have no problem with his protest.   That they had proudly fought for freedom.  Which includes the freedom to peacefully protest injustices when they see them.

But that just brings us full circle.  Just because a few people are okay with it doesn’t make it okay, right?  Similar to the N word or anything else people do that offends. If someone tells you they don’t want their culture appropriated or disrespected you listen.  The American flag and anthem is sacred to that country so you need to be respectful of that fact.. any Canadian knows that you are literally risking your life if you go to that country and disrespect in the wrong scenario. 

It works both ways.  The fact some soldiers said they fought so people like Kap could protest is so besides the point when 99.9% of them weren’t fighting and dying with their friends with a US flag on their shoulder so some millionaire could kneel over his perceived injustice. 

I wonder how it would go over if a white Canadian player kneeled for the USA anthem over Trumps trade policy? 

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16 minutes ago, Keegan said:

But that just brings us full circle.  Just because a few people are okay with it doesn’t make it okay, right?  Similar to the N word or anything else people do that offends. If someone tells you they don’t want their culture appropriated or disrespected you listen.  The American flag and anthem is sacred to that country so you need to be respectful of that fact.. any Canadian knows that you are literally risking your life if you go to that country and disrespect in the wrong scenario. 

It works both ways.  The fact some soldiers said they fought so people like Kap could protest is so besides the point when 99.9% of them weren’t fighting and dying with their friends with a US flag on their shoulder so some millionaire could kneel over his perceived injustice. 

I wonder how it would go over if a white Canadian player kneeled for the USA anthem over Trumps trade policy? 

Yes it works both ways that's why there is a constitution that clearly outlines freedom of speech and the right to protest and dissent.  Its his culture he's an American, most of this post is just rambly non sense which highlights the main point people are using him to attach any gripes they have because at the end of the day they don't like his message, and the US won't change until people face the ugly truth.    

You don't even ever address the actual message, you try to discredit and smear which completely ignores the situation of injustice that has persevered in the US from slavery, through the civil rights movement to current time.  

Edited by villus

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Ok. If you want to talk about Kaepernick or the ad and not really talk about what it does for Davies. Go do it there. http://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/forum/16-general-off-topic-discussion/

If you want to talk about Alphonso Davies,  you can talk about it in this thread. 

With the group we have, I think Davies might score 2 and play the last 30 minutes at left back.

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21 hours ago, Keegan said:

Yes, I know the reason i just think there is a way to send a message without offending people.  I agree with others the anthem should never even be played at sporting events. 

"Offending people".. oh FFS, yes damned be the day when innocent people getting murdered will be more offensive than someone kneeling during an instrumental piece... and last I checked, PEOPLE make a nation, not symbols.

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