The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[canuckgbp]

Well least they took him off at 56'. And they score again lol. 

[dyslexic nam]

Davies off and Gladbach now up 5-0.  It is hard to believe this is the same team that can look so effective in other games.  

[JFL19]

I regret asking how to watch this now lol

[Sal333]

25 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I generally agree, but this is also Bayern.  The possibility of a 3-goal second half comeback is very real.  

 

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

That is bullshit.  This game is over and Bayern are a trainwreck tonight.  

You just confused me. 

[El Diego]

Upamecano got a 6.7 on SofaScore. I have to ask how, considering that was the worst centre back performance I have seen since, well... ever?

[Big_M]

absolutely awful performance from davies...marking non-existent or so late, passes crosses and touches off...at fault on the first two...specially in the first twenty it was disastrous..they kept going on that side seeing how weak he was...after that they put less pressure being up by three...gotta repeat for x'th time...not a left back in a back four...lacking way too much...wing or lwb if he has three behind him

[Floortom]

22 minutes ago, Big_M said:

absolutely awful performance from davies...marking non-existent or so late, passes crosses and touches off...at fault on the first two...specially in the first twenty it was disastrous..they kept going on that side seeing how weak he was...after that they put less pressure being up by three...gotta repeat for x'th time...not a left back in a back four...lacking way too much...wing or lwb if he has three behind him

He was bad…the whole team was a disaster - especially the backline.

Not sure the last time they looked so terrible 

[Aird25]

24 minutes ago, Big_M said:

gotta repeat for x'th time...not a left back in a back four...lacking way too much...wing or lwb if he has three behind him

Missed the match, but this seems like a ridiculous over reaction

[GasPed]

44 minutes ago, Big_M said:

absolutely awful performance from davies...marking non-existent or so late, passes crosses and touches off...at fault on the first two...specially in the first twenty it was disastrous..they kept going on that side seeing how weak he was...after that they put less pressure being up by three...gotta repeat for x'th time...not a left back in a back four...lacking way too much...wing or lwb if he has three behind him

I give him a bit of a pass because under Nags, he doesn't really play in the back 4 because he plays so high up pitch.  So he was looking to go forward a lot today and it was not the right tactic at all.  I agree with you though, his passes and touches were definitely way too loose, especially with the intense press Gladbach was putting on - and he definitely owns some responsibility for the first two goals.  Just not acceptable at all.  Having said that, he was not the worst defender on the night, nor was he even the 2nd worst defender.  Hernandez was a tire fire and Upamecano was a complete train wreck.  In fact, that was by far the worst overall performance I've seen from Bayern in... ...well, forever.  That was horrific.

[Unnamed Trialist]

As I am not a Bayern fan I could care less. 

But I do like the example of the rival, if you get enough chances at a superior team you have to be able to figure it out and beat it. All credit to Gladbach.

This is what bothers me about perpetually losing to or not beating Mexico or the US--not good enough. We have enough chances at them to have be able to figure out how to get those occasional wins. Just keeping hammering away.  Hammer and hammer. And believe in yourself. 

I don't think Davies, as an outside back, was at all the worst out there, but he was not sharp. Still, coming off an injury he was not the player most was expected of, so I think he won't pay for this loss that much if at all.

[Obinna]

55 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

As I am not a Bayern fan I could care less. 

But I do like the example of the rival, if you get enough chances at a superior team you have to be able to figure it out and beat it. All credit to Gladbach.

This is what bothers me about perpetually losing to or not beating Mexico or the US--not good enough. We have enough chances at them to have be able to figure out how to get those occasional wins. Just keeping hammering away.  Hammer and hammer. And believe in yourself. 

I don't think Davies, as an outside back, was at all the worst out there, but he was not sharp. Still, coming off an injury he was not the player most was expected of, so I think he won't pay for this loss that much if at all.

Our results against Mexico:

3-1L

2-1L

1-1

Maybe this is a minority opinion, but I expect nothing less than a win. Being okay with a draw in the context of qualifying is fine, but in the context of the program's growth we NEED to win this one.

Plus we are in our own backyard, so no excuses.

If we want to be the 3rd best in concacaf, this is the standard.

If we can't beat Mexico or the USA semi-regularly, we're not separating ourselves from the rest of the pack (as far as reputation is concerned - not speaking from a "qualifying" context), we're just like every other pretender in this region.

We need wins to cement our reputation. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Obinna

[The Beaver 2.0]

Good news is that Davies still has a few weeks to regain fitness and recover his form. A shit game can be an excellent kick in the pants.  

[SthMelbRed]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Our results against Mexico:

3-1L

2-1L

1-1

Maybe this is a minority opinion, but I expect nothing less than a win. Being okay with a draw in the context of qualifying is fine, but in the context of the program's growth we NEED to win this one.

Plus we are in our own backyard, so no excuses.

If we want to be the 3rd best in concacaf, this is the standard.

If we can't beat Mexico or the USA semi-regularly, we're not separating ourselves from the rest of the pack (as far as reputation is concerned - not speaking from a "qualifying" context), we're just like every other pretender in this region.

We need wins to cement our reputation. 

If we qualify with a top 3 finish and draw all four games against Mexico and the USA, we'd be just fine in every respect. Our reputation would be just fine. The real change in this respect is that I'm pretty sure that both Mexico and the Americans will look at a point in Canada as a good result. That wouldn't have been the case even just 2 years ago. So, in summary, hope for 3 in all matches, but let's not get too jumpy about home draws against very good teams.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

If we qualify with a top 3 finish and draw all four games against Mexico and the USA, we'd be just fine in every respect. Our reputation would be just fine. The real change in this respect is that I'm pretty sure that both Mexico and the Americans will look at a point in Canada as a good result. That wouldn't have been the case even just 2 years ago. So, in summary, hope for 3 in all matches, but let's not get too jumpy about home draws against very good teams.

That would be 1 PPG against MEX/USA. I would have to see how the other teams fare to consider that good enough.

If we play Mexico/USA off the park in our next two home games and get draws, I can probably live with that.

 

[ag futbol]

We’re going to need some tougher to get points. That could have been an away win at Jamaica or one of the earlier ties. 
 

Winning against Mexico at home is as good as an away win IF you perform in your other home matches.

[SthMelbRed]

If we get 4 points in each of the next 2 windows, we'll be on 18 points....probably enough to get the playoff spot, already. If we go into the last window just needing needing a win at home against Jamaica for automatic qualification, I'll be more than content.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Thing is, since we're OT thanks to UT, that just occasionally beating the US or Mexico, including winning the Gold Cup say once a decade, seems to be enough to get to where they are in FIFA rankings. Top 15 really doing very little. 

Being a Gladbach in Concacaf. 

Rafa Márquez was on Spanish TV the other day, in a much commented interview in Mexico,and his only major regret was playing 5 World Cups with nothing to show for it. Mexico can do that and be top 10 in the world. 

[Kent]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Thing is, since we're OT thanks to UT, that just occasionally beating the US or Mexico, including winning the Gold Cup say once a decade, seems to be enough to get to where they are in FIFA rankings. Top 15 really doing very little. 

Being a Gladbach in Concacaf. 

Rafa Márquez was on Spanish TV the other day, in a much commented interview in Mexico,and his only major regret was playing 5 World Cups with nothing to show for it. Mexico can do that and be top 10 in the world. 

Mexico has been eliminated in the round of 16 in 7 straight World Cups. I think as long as they are ranked lower than 8th but higher than 17th you can't really complain either way about their ranking.

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, Kent said:

Mexico has been eliminated in the round of 16 in 7 straight World Cups. I think as long as they are ranked lower than 8th but higher than 17th you can't really complain either way about their ranking.

I don't know. Teams like the US and Mexico so high, on what basis? Winning the Gold Cup, basically. Not even qualifying for the WC.

At the least the US made a quarter final, forget which WC that was. They also came last once, but no complaint, our goal is to a-get to Qatar, b-win a match, c-cross that bridge when we come to it.

Give them credit though, there was a time there especially Costa Rica looked perfectly set to be a strong rival for a long time. Really, given it is a short tournament, that only 3 teams have won the Gold Cup is very odd. Look at Europe, the Eurocup or whatever it is called, there are teams much further below others in ranking who pull it off, with certain frequency (Denmark, Greece).

Be a decent rival to the US and Mexico puts us, likely, into the top 20 in the world. Can we do that until, for example, until I die?

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't know. Teams like the US and Mexico so high, on what basis? Winning the Gold Cup, basically. Not even qualifying for the WC.

At the least the US made a quarter final, forget which WC that was. They also came last once, but no complaint, our goal is to a-get to Qatar, b-win a match, c-cross that bridge when we come to it.

Give them credit though, there was a time there especially Costa Rica looked perfectly set to be a strong rival for a long time. Really, given it is a short tournament, that only 3 teams have won the Gold Cup is very odd. Look at Europe, the Eurocup or whatever it is called, there are teams much further below others in ranking who pull it off, with certain frequency (Denmark, Greece).

Be a decent rival to the US and Mexico puts us, likely, into the top 20 in the world. Can we do that until, for example, until I die?

It was 2002 IIRC.

On USA and Mexico being so high for "Winning the Gold Cup, basically": It is what it is and the methodology is what it is. I don't think there's any unfair advantage to them compared to any other confederation, if that's what you're implying. A team that wins the Euros or Copa America will gain more points because they have to beat stronger teams and thus gain more points. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

It was 2002 IIRC.

On USA and Mexico being so high for "Winning the Gold Cup, basically": It is what it is and the methodology is what it is. I don't think there's any unfair advantage to them compared to any other confederation, if that's what you're implying. A team that wins the Euros or Copa America will gain more points because they have to beat stronger teams and thus gain more points. 

No I don't think it is unfair, any nation that can win their confederation championship can get major FIFA points that will carry forward in a big way.

But really: the US and Mexico in the top 12 in the world? No one believes that. We would not be drawing both away if they were so strong. Uruguay, Colombia and Chile are all below them: which of those would we want to face if it was a deciding home and away for the final spot to Qatar? 

But my real point is that thinking about FIFA rankings, and getting impressed how we are rising: if we make Qatar, and can win a match, then show consistency in the GC especially the off years from the WC qualifying rounds, we'll be up there too. And I don't believe it would be deserved either.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No I don't think it is unfair, any nation that can win their confederation championship can get major FIFA points that will carry forward in a big way.

But really: the US and Mexico in the top 12 in the world? No one believes that. We would not be drawing both away if they were so strong. Uruguay, Colombia and Chile are all below them: which of those would we want to face if it was a deciding home and away for the final spot to Qatar? 

But my real point is that thinking about FIFA rankings, and getting impressed how we are rising: if we make Qatar, and can win a match, then show consistency in the GC especially the off years from the WC qualifying rounds, we'll be up there too. And I don't believe it would be deserved either.

Ah I see, okay I see what you are saying. I am with you that US and Mexico feel overrated, but also the methodology is what it is, so how does one reconcile that? 

1. One possibility is the methodology is flawed, but how is that the case? I don't see it. The methodology applies to everyone. 
2. Or, perhaps we overestimate the South Americans and underestimate our neighbors USA and Mexico? Case in point, would Uruguay rather play Mexico than Colombia or Chile? I am not sure. Would the rather play USA? Probably. Why? Reputations and stereotypes, maybe. 

I'm not convinced the second explains it either, but it makes more sense to me than the first. 

[Kent]

I still don't see how Mexico is overrated in the rankings. Like clockwork they get out of the group in the World Cup. Like clockwork they fail to get to the quarter-finals. So they aren't a top 8 team, but are a top 16 team. The last 2 World Cups they have tied for top of the group, but lost out on a tie breaker. The most recent World Cup they beat Germany in the group stage. The previous one they tied Brazil.

As for USA not even qualifying to the last World Cup but still being ranked 13th, how about Italy. They didn't qualify for the last World Cup and are ranked 4th.

I will say that one unfair advantage for these teams, in particular the USA is the fact that USA hosts every continental competition. If, let's say, Honduras hosted every Gold Cup and Nations League playoffs, I bet they would be ranked higher than they currently are and USA would be ranked lower than they currently are (not necessarily Honduras ranked higher than USA).

[An Observer]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 We would not be drawing both away if they were so strong. Uruguay, Colombia and Chile are all below them: which of those would we want to face if it was a deciding home and away for the final spot to Qatar? 

Chile. We would definitely have a chance against them. The other 2 not so much. Likely it will be Ecuador though this time. 

[Cblake]

Alphonso  has the start for Bayern this morning against Union Berlin. This is great to see, seems to have his health back, which bodes well for the November WCQs. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Cblake