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The Importance of Alphonso Davies


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32 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Its not just that you are "neutering" a midfielder, its that the CB playing beside him is not capable of helping out like his CB's at Bayern.  Cornelius, Vittoria, James, Henry etc, they all have their hands full when playing against top level CONCACAF teams, putting an extra burden on them seems risky.  Sacrifice the LW you wished was there, let Davies run wild and goals will come with some combo of Hoilet David, Cav, Larin, Arfield, Kaye, Osorio et al.  Defense seems to be the spot that need shoring up.  

If Canada had more depth at the left back position as well as at the right back position, then Canada would be just fine

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Wow guys, this one was special. I was in the building for this one and got to see Davies up close in a big match.    he didn’t offer a ton offensively in this one and was absolutely GASSED by t

Phonzie still doing Phonzie things after being injured.. David finding form in Ligue 1/Europe.. Eustaquio emerging as a top CM in Portugal.. Millar tearing apart PL2 and looking at a Championship loan

Kudos to Hansi Flick for taking Davies off just as David was about to start for Lille so we could all switch streams. Now there's a coach who truly understands the needs of Canadian soccer fans.

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On 6/17/2020 at 6:47 AM, Ivan said:

Exactly.  Chuckled repeatedly through the segment, but at least they were talking soccer and their general topic was bang on (Davies' influence).  At the end (the clip didn't extend that far) Hayes acknowledged their lack of soccer knowledge and said they would try and get KJ or Caldwell, or perhaps someone from Munich, on tomorrow's show (today) to knowledgeably discuss Davies (and hopefully David's and Millar's et al) potential influence on the game in Canada.

Some of the 'sports experts' in this country are outright embarassing. Some asshats from Sportsnet had an interview with a German soccer reporter when the re-start was announced and they asked "How do the players in the Bundesliga and Bundesliga 1 feel about the prospect of playing without fans". 

Having watched the clip, they certainly mangled the Hargreaves back story with that provincial team nonsense.

Edited by Ed_S
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6 hours ago, El Hombre said:

I think this is the key point.  For everyone looking for Davies at LB, which of the midfielders are you going to neuter in order to cover for him?  Even with Bayern's firepower, they still need to have someone cover for him on a regular basis and they choose Kimmich and Thiago.

We don't have a Kimmich or Thiago that can transition from offense to defense and back again like they do.  Therefore, even if we do hold someone back it may not be enough.

Davies is garnering raves for two things these days:

1 - Crazy runs forward with a cross

2 - Last ditch recoveries on defense.

Which do you want to see more of in a Canada shirt?  He won't be able to do 1 from the LB position with Canada against good opposition, because he doesn't have the surrounding talent that he does with Bayern.  And, when he does, it will leave Canada much more exposed than it does with Bayern.

This shouldn't be as much of an argument as it is.

Piette, Kaye, Hutch, Eustaquio, Teibert, Arfield etc are all more than capable of covering for him. It's a pretty basic element of the game, and we have plenty of capable defensive midfielders. I really don't think you're giving our squad, or Davies enough credit. TBH I disagree with just about everything you've said here, and the fact that you use 'neutering' as a term to describe defending tells me pretty much everything I need to know about your outlook on the sport. Kimmich, Thiago and Goretzka all manage to contribute a great deal to the attack despite occasionally having to cover when the fullbacks get forwards. It's just part of the system. Piette has a grand total of 0 goals in 200 + games anyways. He already acts like a shield

Edited by Aird25
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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I watched and at times it was painful. Some things were a result of not being "soccer" guys, but some things are inexcusable, such as claiming Davies never played LB in MLS, which is clearly false. This doesn't require you to be a soccer guy, it just takes a little bit of extra effort to get your facts straight. 

Anyways, painful as it may be I do think we should support these guys and appreciate their attempts. Do we want to chase away anyone and everyone who are not "pure" soccer folk?

Patience is a virtue. 

They didn’t invent the “Davies never played left back before” myth. They were just repeating what I have seen several people say, and these are people who ARE soccer guys, but don’t follow MLS or Canada.

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3 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Piette, Kaye, Hutch, Eustaquio, Teibert, Arfield etc are all more than capable of covering for him. It's a pretty basic element of the game, and we have plenty of capable defensive midfielders. I really don't think you're giving our squad, or Davies enough credit. TBH I disagree with just about everything you've said here, and the fact that you use 'neutering' as a term to describe defending tells me pretty much everything I need to know about your outlook on the sport. Kimmich, Thiago and Goretzka all manage to contribute a great deal to the attack despite occasionally having to cover when the fullbacks get forwards. It's just part of the system. Piette has a grand total of 0 goals in 200 + games anyways. He already acts like a shield

It’s normally Kimmich that slides over but we don’t have any holding midfielders of the quality of Kimmich.

Also while Kimmich slides to defend, Thiago is more than capable of being the sole holding midfielders.

Bayern is just a well oiled machine with fantastic talent.  Our players don’t do enough training together to become that cohesive.

On the other hand in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 as a left winger  Davies remains exceptional in both attack and defence for Canada and we don’t have to make any exceptional rotations to cover.  He is our best player and his natural position is a good place to put him.

 

Edited by baulderdash77
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TSN Overdrive ended up with Alexei Lalas on yesterday, which was a bit disappointing.  While he confirmed for the boys Davies' current high profile on the global scene, nothing else on Davies or the Canadian team was discussed.  Some MLS return to play talk and a debate on whether or not fake crowd noise should be used during broadcasts.  Meh.

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4 minutes ago, Ivan said:

TSN Overdrive ended up with Alexei Lalas on yesterday, which was a bit disappointing.  While he confirmed for the boys Davies' current high profile on the global scene, nothing else on Davies or the Canadian team was discussed.  Some MLS return to play talk and a debate on whether or not fake crowd noise should be used during broadcasts.  Meh.

What do you expect from an American though? I mean let's be serious here...USA especially their men's national team or any American pundit doesn't even think about Canada's national team or they don't think Canada is on USA's level. Because let's face it we are not because if we were, we would qualify for more World Cups and we would be winning Gold Cups too.

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14 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

It’s normally Kimmich that slides over but we don’t have any holding midfielders of the quality of Kimmich.

Also while Kimmich slides to defend, Thiago is more than capable of being the sole holding midfielders.

Bayern is just a well oiled machine with fantastic talent.  Our players don’t do enough training together to become that cohesive.

On the other hand in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 as a left winger  Davies remains exceptional in both attack and defence for Canada and we don’t have to make any exceptional rotations to cover.  He is our best player and his natural position is a good place to put him.

 

No we're not Bayern, and yes clubs have more time to gel than international teams, but I'm a bit surprised so many of you don't think our midfielders are capable of a task that is very common in the modern game. I've considered the DM position one of strength for us for quite a while now. Not world beaters, but fairly solid at the CONCACAF level. I don't think anyone needs to hear me go on about Davies best position for the national team depending on the tactics and opponent again. 

I'm struggling to remember many occasions where we even conceded because Davies didn't have cover. I remember him losing his mark several times in the box, and I remember him turning the ball over against the US when trying to take players on in his own half, but these are faults that he has already improved on and mistakes he rarely makes anymore with Bayern. My problem with Davies at LB has been that he plays differently with Canada than he does with Bayern

Edited by Aird25
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Its not that we dont think that the midfielder cant help cover, but I dont think the CB's can help like Bayerns do.  If our guys were so capable what happened against the USA in that second game?? I think that is why a lot of us are worried.   Granted Davies looks to be improving defensively every game, but I wont feel much better about him creating all his offense from LB until Henry/Cornelius/Insert name here improves their game at CB.  

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2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Its not that we dont think that the midfielder cant help cover, but I dont think the CB's can help like Bayerns do.  If our guys were so capable what happened against the USA in that second game?? I think that is why a lot of us are worried.   Granted Davies looks to be improving defensively every game, but I wont feel much better about him creating all his offense from LB until Henry/Cornelius/Insert name here improves their game at CB.  

We got beat by a better team, and Davies just so happened to have a howler, playing quite possibly the worst game of his career. I agree that our CBs are often a weakness of ours, but imo that's not a reason to move our 'get out of jail free card' as Flick put it, out of defense. Quite the opposite in fact, as we have stronger alternatives in attack than we do in defense. Anyways, I'll bow out for now. I've been suggesting for like 4 years that Davies often looks more dangerous attacking with space in front of him but nobody on this board seems to agree.   

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9 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

We got beat by a better team, and Davies just so happened to have a howler, playing quite possibly the worst game of his career. I agree that our CBs are often a weakness of ours, but imo that's not a reason to move our 'get out of jail free card' as Flick put it, out of defense. Quite the opposite in fact, as we have stronger alternatives in attack than we do in defense. Anyways, I'll bow out for now. I've been suggesting for like 4 years that Davies often looks more dangerous attacking with space in front of him but nobody on this board seems to agree.   

I am personally more open to Davies at LB than I was back in November. He has grown a lot since then so I am more optimistic about it.

He is better attacking with space in front of him, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. 

Like you said earlier, it depends on whether Davies can play in the same way he does for Bayern. He is getting better at knowing when to take players on, when to combine with players, when to play the simple pass, etc. He is more likely to show this for Canada now than any time in the past.

I somewhat agree that we have the midfielders who are capable of covering for him. Actually I don't think it is a matter of can they, but will they? Does the team have enough reps together to know when to drop back and cover for Davies? I still have a question mark here, but I am willing to see Davies at LB again, or at least I won't complain about it like I have done in the past. 

Edited by Obinna
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3 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I'm struggling to remember many occasions where we even conceded because Davies didn't have cover.

 

The highlights are available to see.

USA Goal #1: Failed offside trap on a corner and his man was free behind him.  Part of what makes him risky on the backline is because he is a risky player by nature and he will expect Vitoria/Cornelius/Henry to play like Alaba and Boateng.  That's a tall ask.

USA Goal #2: Long cross comes in from his man who has beaten him.  Sets up the goal.

USA Goal #3: Set piece and the scorer was between him and Henry I believe.

USA Goal #4: Cross comes in after a long ball over Davies, sets up the goal.

Even the third Haiti goal is a ball played in behind him because he's starting to cheat forward.

I love the kid, but he tries to do too much for Canada.  Take the reins off him and let him run.  He's good enough that he'll help out defensively as well.
(goddamn, I hated revisiting those highlights)

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It all depends on the opponent and tactics. To have Davies up front against a team that is bunkering, while we have most of the possession, is a waste. I think if we play a team that we should dominate them in the midfield, he should be at LB or LWB. If we play a superior team that will out possess us, he should be up top (winger or striker) to hit them on the counter.

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2 hours ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

Another clip I thought y’all would wanna see:

 

Alphonso winning Rookie of the Season surprised me given the fact that Haaland was a goal machine and produced far more than Davies did but that is neither here nor there. Davies won the award and he has also won the Bundesliga title too. Probably had a lot to do with it but what is next on the horizon now? UEFA Champions League 

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6 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Alphonso winning Rookie of the Season surprised me given the fact that Haaland was a goal machine and produced far more than Davies did but that is neither here nor there.

There may be a requirement for a minimum number of minutes played in order to qualify for the award and Haaland only played half a season in the BL.

Also, he was off to a torrid start with twelve goals in his first eight games but he's now only scored twice in the last eight. It's questionable how his numbers would project across an full season. Davies on the other hand has proven that he can consistently perform at a top level for an entire season.

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5 hours ago, Norrin Radd said:

There may be a requirement for a minimum number of minutes played in order to qualify for the award and Haaland only played half a season in the BL.

Also, he was off to a torrid start with twelve goals in his first eight games but he's now only scored twice in the last eight. It's questionable how his numbers would project across an full season. Davies on the other hand has proven that he can consistently perform at a top level for an entire season.

I'm not going to argue because you have good points and yes Davies has been consistent but since Champions League is set to return in August, if Davies can win CL with Bayern, then sky's the limit. I mean Flick already loves him some Davies.

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4 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

I'm not going to argue because you have good points and yes Davies has been consistent but since Champions League is set to return in August, if Davies can win CL with Bayern, then sky's the limit. I mean Flick already loves him some Davies.

Whether Bayern win the CL or not, Phonzie has already proven this season that the sky’s the limit. 

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4 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

I'm not going to argue because you have good points and yes Davies has been consistent but since Champions League is set to return in August, if Davies can win CL with Bayern, then sky's the limit. I mean Flick already loves him some Davies.

TBF most soccer fans in the world seem to love Davies.  He’s really exciting to watch at both ends of the field.  He’s becoming a true star in the sport and has a great story and personality.

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10 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

TBF most soccer fans in the world seem to love Davies.  He’s really exciting to watch at both ends of the field.  He’s becoming a true star in the sport and has a great story and personality.

Yeah he is becoming a big star at club level or his stardom is continuing to emerge while he is at Bayern but he has to do it at international level for Canada too. If Canada qualifies for the World Cup in 2022, then there you go Phonzie's stardom and stock will go through the roof even more.

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12 hours ago, Norrin Radd said:

There may be a requirement for a minimum number of minutes played in order to qualify for the award and Haaland only played half a season in the BL.

Also, he was off to a torrid start with twelve goals in his first eight games but he's now only scored twice in the last eight. It's questionable how his numbers would project across an full season. Davies on the other hand has proven that he can consistently perform at a top level for an entire season.

Haaland was one of the five nominees. So he was definitely eligible, and Davies beat him out.

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Current fan voting for the Golden Boy award. Most predictions have Davies coming in top 3 behind Sancho and Haaland.

1 Alejandro MARQUÉS Juventus 2077
2 TETÊ, Shakhtar 1985
3 Alphonso  DAVIES Bayern Munich 1767
4 Mason GREENWOOD Machester United 1638
5 Dominik SZOBOSZLAI Red Bull Salzburg 1612
6 Heorhiy TSITAISHVILI Dynamo Kiev 1572
7 Eduardo QUARESMA Sporting Lisbon 1454
8 Erling HÅLAND Dortmund 1324
9 Mohammed KUDUS Nordsjelland 1277
10 Marley AKÉ Olypique Marseille 1258
11 Jadon SANCHO Dortmund 1093
12 Anssumane FATI Barcellona 939
13 Mamadou SÈNE Juventus 937
14 Lutsharel GEERTRUIDA Feyenoord 814
15 Mathías SOULÉ Juventus 789
16 RODRYGO Real Madrid 678
17 Matias  RAMOS Benfica 673
18 VINÍCIUS JÚNIORR Real Madrid 669
19 Gabriel  MARTINELLI Arsenal 620
20 Jonathan  DAVID Gent  605
21 Ozan  KABAK Schalke 577
22 David COLINA Hajduk 573
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