The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[cronaldo7]

He had a solid game. Rarely put a foot wrong and was good going forward. He was getting hacked a bit in the first half and Leverkusens winger Bellarabi (capped 11x by Germany)  struggled against Davies, picked up a yellow and was subbed at half. The consistency of his performances have been remarkable and it still feels like he has another gear we’ve only seen glimpses of. Been an absolute pleasure to watch.
 

Whoscored.com rated Davies as one of the best on the pitch. 
 

Lucas Hernandez came up for him in the 84th and his man scored after a bit too much space was given (I write man, but it was 17 year old, Wirtz, who has now become the youngest player ever to score in the Bundesliga)

[TGAA_Star]

Phonzie just continues to evolve and mature and I can't help but love it

[Unnamed Trialist]

I had fun watching him, but really, he is not really being pushed.

After a season watching Bundesliga, I can't say I overly enjoy it. It is very one-dimensional, or at least lacking in character, very flat overall, and dry too. Where is the rage, the guts, the visceral mentality? Little flash, everything is rather predictable, and then there are tactical things going on that make no sense. Not even the fouling is nasty, it is all very nice: you are losing or trying to hang on vs. Bayern, you have to dig in and kick butt.

And then:  B Leverkusen got hit on the counter a few times, and they were winning, then drawing, that is ridiculous. What sort of coaching is that? Same happened with Union Berlin the other week, high useless press, then getting caught out behind the ball. There is this notion out there that Bundesliga is a pressing league, I read an article recently on that in The Guardian, but it is assinine if you can't press effectively and get hit on the counter by the best team in the league. 

Bundesliga is a lower quality than La Liga, and I'd say the same about EPL too, both are much richer and varied versions of football, which more interesting players as well. The internationals are more interesting, and they have that mix of European, S American, of different traditions blending in single clubs. I don't think that Bayer Leverkusen would even be top half of the league in England or Spain. 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I had fun watching him, but really, he is not really being pushed.

After a season watching Bundesliga, I can't say I overly enjoy it. It is very one-dimensional, or at least lacking in character, very flat overall, and dry too. Where is the rage, the guts, the visceral mentality? Little flash, everything is rather predictable, and then there are tactical things going on that make no sense. Not even the fouling is nasty, it is all very nice: you are losing or trying to hang on vs. Bayern, you have to dig in and kick butt.

And then:  B Leverkusen got hit on the counter a few times, and they were winning, then drawing, that is ridiculous. What sort of coaching is that? Same happened with Union Berlin the other week, high useless press, then getting caught out behind the ball. There is this notion out there that Bundesliga is a pressing league, I read an article recently on that in The Guardian, but it is assinine if you can't press effectively and get hit on the counter by the best team in the league. 

Bundesliga is a lower quality than La Liga, and I'd say the same about EPL too, both are much richer and varied versions of football, which more interesting players as well. The internationals are more interesting, and they have that mix of European, S American, of different traditions blending in single clubs. I don't think that Bayer Leverkusen would even be top half of the league in England or Spain. 

 

I think your analysis is fair. I have personally enjoyed watching the Bundesliga despite everything you said, because it is a high quality league featuring our best player on the best team. It has been refreshing to learn about different teams and players I wouldn’t have bothered to pay much attention to otherwise.

When I think about the tactics and one-dimensionality and lack of pragmatism, it all screams development league, which makes sense considering how many great young players are going there to develop. It is undoubtedly the highest quality development league in the world, and I am beginning to love it for what it is. I am very happy with our best players going there to develop.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Obinna

[Bertuzzi44]

46 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I had fun watching him, but really, he is not really being pushed.

After a season watching Bundesliga, I can't say I overly enjoy it. It is very one-dimensional, or at least lacking in character, very flat overall, and dry too. Where is the rage, the guts, the visceral mentality? Little flash, everything is rather predictable, and then there are tactical things going on that make no sense. Not even the fouling is nasty, it is all very nice: you are losing or trying to hang on vs. Bayern, you have to dig in and kick butt.

 

To be fair, playing in huge empty stadiums probably doesn't help. I'm sure everyone, from the commentators to coaches to players, feeds off the emotion and noise a huge crowd can bring.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

To be fair, playing in huge empty stadiums probably doesn't help. I'm sure everyone, from the commentators to coaches to players, feeds off the emotion and noise a huge crowd can bring.

Probably right. The stats so far, with this rather small sample of a few games, say matches have less fouls than normal. And that the stats of dribbles had greatly decreased, not sure if I heard that in the Bayern game or later watching bits of Dortmund. I am sure you are right then, that the crowd pushes players into being more aggressive, and taking on rivals, where without fans they are containing without the ball and passing with it. 

I watched last year too, maybe I liked it better. Mind you, I am not a Bayern fan and want to see rivals push them. With Kovac as coach, since he was not as good as Flick (who has that team really working well), that happened more often, Bayern stretched, and maybe I enjoyed it more. 

[SpursFlu]

Bayern just too good

Potential final 8 world cup style single game knockout Champions League in Lisbon in August. This could elevate Phonzie's global status in to another hemisphere 

[Aird25]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I had fun watching him, but really, he is not really being pushed.

After a season watching Bundesliga, I can't say I overly enjoy it. It is very one-dimensional, or at least lacking in character, very flat overall, and dry too. Where is the rage, the guts, the visceral mentality? Little flash, everything is rather predictable, and then there are tactical things going on that make no sense. Not even the fouling is nasty, it is all very nice: you are losing or trying to hang on vs. Bayern, you have to dig in and kick butt.

And then:  B Leverkusen got hit on the counter a few times, and they were winning, then drawing, that is ridiculous. What sort of coaching is that? Same happened with Union Berlin the other week, high useless press, then getting caught out behind the ball. There is this notion out there that Bundesliga is a pressing league, I read an article recently on that in The Guardian, but it is assinine if you can't press effectively and get hit on the counter by the best team in the league. 

Bundesliga is a lower quality than La Liga, and I'd say the same about EPL too, both are much richer and varied versions of football, which more interesting players as well. The internationals are more interesting, and they have that mix of European, S American, of different traditions blending in single clubs. I don't think that Bayer Leverkusen would even be top half of the league in England or Spain. 

 

Until this season I always followed the Premier League and La Liga more closely than Bundesliga, but, I'm very much appreciating the chance to watch a young Canadian break through at one of the top teams in the world. Suggesting his time there is being wasted is ridiculous.

Six Bundesliga teams advanced to the rounds 16 in European competitions this season, which is the same as either Spain or England. As for Bayern, they've outscored English competition 13 - 3 this season in only 3 games, and IMO look primed to give any team in the world a run for their money.

Your comment about 'interesting internationals' seems a bit biased. What does that even mean? La Liga's 198 (40%) internationals are more interesting than Bundesliga's 280 (53%) internationals? Personalities, style of play?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Aird25

[CanadianSoccerFan]

 

[Bdog]

22 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

Funny how Davies is either “North American”, “from CONCACAF”, or “former MLS player” when most Americans talk about him. If I was European or something and didn’t pay a lot of attention, I’d think he was American lol. 

[TGAA_Star]

30 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

Gives me chills here.. I love it

[dyslexic nam]

46 minutes ago, Bdog said:

Funny how Davies is either “North American”, “from CONCACAF”, or “former MLS player” when most Americans talk about him. If I was European or something and didn’t pay a lot of attention, I’d think he was American lol. 

It is pretty laughable.  If he was a US international, I am pretty sure he wouldn't be identified as a "Concacaf player".

[A_Gagne]

1 hour ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

Wholly sh**balls! that's a nice list to be on!

[A_Gagne]

**Delete. Double post

Edited June 8, 2020 by A_Gagne

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

I'm not so happy he made this list. Looks more like a list of the most overrated players in the world.

I'm only half kidding but there's some money to be wasted with that group. Davies excluded of course

[Obinna]

54 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It is pretty laughable.  If he was a US international, I am pretty sure he wouldn't be identified as a "Concacaf player".

For sure. I think the Americans in general are jealous we have Davies. I love it.

The best export and best rookie of the year from their league are both Canadian.

We'll have even more fun when American-born David moves to a bigger league and starts scoring!

Edited June 8, 2020 by Obinna

[TGAA_Star]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

For sure. I think the Americans in general are jealous we have Davies. I love it.

We'll have even more fun when American-born David moves to a bigger league and starts scoring!

Yeah but David could end up with Leipzig especially with Timo Werner leaving for Chelsea 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

I've seen people on twitter claiming the Whitecaps have a 20% sell-on clause.  Anyone know for sure?  

 

 

[SpursFlu]

7 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

I've seen people on twitter claiming the Whitecaps have a 20% sell-on clause.  Anyone know for sure?  

 

 

I dont recall but that would be sweet. 

I just remember it was 10 million up front with bonuses up to 22 million.

I'm just assuming the Caps have received 22 million USD

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Until this season I always followed the Premier League and La Liga more closely than Bundesliga, but, I'm very much appreciating the chance to watch a young Canadian break through at one of the top teams in the world. Suggesting his time there is being wasted is ridiculous.

Six Bundesliga teams advanced to the rounds 16 in European competitions this season, which is the same as either Spain or England. As for Bayern, they've outscored English competition 13 - 3 this season in only 3 games, and IMO look primed to give any team in the world a run for their money.

Your comment about 'interesting internationals' seems a bit biased. What does that even mean? La Liga's 198 (40%) internationals are more interesting than Bundesliga's 280 (53%) internationals? Personalities, style of play?

You should watch a bit more: EPL or La Liga would be a greater challenge for Alphonso, don't you think? I have not seem him pushed to the limit by a wing once, not a single time, not last season, not this. The mid to lower level teams are not very good and many compete poorly. So he looks good and we are pleased with his development. But let's see him take a step up. Champions?

As for German teams advancing into Europe, well that is the established deal with UEFA, it does not mean anything in and of itself. It does not mean they are amongst the most interesting sides, they are not. 

About the word "interesting", it is an opinion, not a bias. Yes, for me the internationals in La Liga shine more, have more character, do not have their traits squashed by the system as readily, and are more interesting to watch. The Argentines are Argies, the Brazilians bring in what they have different, and then the youth shines just as brightly in more complex game situations. Take Real Sociedad, Odegaard on loan from Madrid, and Isak, who is just 20, I like those two more than any other young pairing of the same age in Bundesliga.

[johnyb]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

For sure. I think the Americans in general are jealous we have Davies. I love it.

The best export and best rookie of the year from their league are both Canadian.

We'll have even more fun when American-born David moves to a bigger league and starts scoring!

I can see the Headlines now "Jonathon David becomes highest transfer ever for an American born player" 

[Unnamed Trialist]

18 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Whatever you say, that list is ridiculous, the numbers are bogus, as is the list. Except for Mbappe at the top.

First of all, this business of putting 5 England players on the list. Really? Five guys from England? Who is going to pay those numbers: they are just making them up, no one would pay more than 100 million for any of them. Sancho is more valuable than anyone else in Germany? Then the list just assumes the talent is in England, throwing in Mané, Salah. Very biased and inaccurate.

Take Griezmann, where did that come from. He is not worth half that, he has played poorly for two seasons, and is not even amongst the top dozen players in Spain.

Finally, take the leading players in the world, like Messi: right now, if he were for sale, any team with the money would put down 150 million for the 3 seasons he has left, he has missed a huge chunk of the season to injury and is still a leading scorer and in assists in Europe--apart from the fact that just for shirt sales and marketing it'd pay off. True, Messi is in decline, still amazing but slipping. Sort of like Harry Kane?

 

[SthMelbRed]

22 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Whatever you say, that list is ridiculous, the numbers are bogus, as is the list. Except for Mbappe at the top.

First of all, this business of putting 5 England players on the list. Really? Five guys from England? Who is going to pay those numbers: they are just making them up, no one would pay more than 100 million for any of them. Sancho is more valuable than anyone else in Germany? Then the list just assumes the talent is in England, throwing in Mané, Salah. Very biased and inaccurate.

Take Griezmann, where did that come from. He is not worth half that, he has played poorly for two seasons, and is not even amongst the top dozen players in Spain.

Finally, take the leading players in the world, like Messi: right now, if he were for sale, any team with the money would put down 150 million for the 3 seasons he has left, he has missed a huge chunk of the season to injury and is still a leading scorer and in assists in Europe--apart from the fact that just for shirt sales and marketing it'd pay off. True, Messi is in decline, still amazing but slipping. Sort of like Harry Kane?

 

I agree that the list is largely bullshit. However, English players do tend to be overpriced, in reality, due to the prevalence of the richest clubs being English and requiring HG players. Otherwise, I wrote much the same as what you wrote on a cousin's FB post sharing this graphic.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

I agree that the list is largely ********. However, English players do tend to be overpriced, in reality, due to the prevalence of the richest clubs being English and requiring HG players. Otherwise, I wrote much the same as what you wrote on a cousin's FB post sharing this graphic.

This is all just to get some balance with the Alphonso hype on this thread. 

 if you look at the highest transfers ever, only 2 of the top 50 are English, McGuire and Sterling, inside the EPL both. Then there's Bale. 

In terms of paying high transfer fees, England and Spain. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_association_football_transfers#:~:text=The current transfer record was,million) in August of 2017.

Sterling has already made the move up, he can't go anywhere in England. Same for Rashford. The Alexander-Arnold value is laughable. Kane could still transfer up, so could Sancho. 

If Bayern had not redone Alphonso's contract, he probably could transfer out for 70-80 million, which is still amazing: the logic being that if Bayern had refused to improve his conditions he could hold out and not renew, taking a much higher salary from another side. But that is not the case, he is on the right sort of growth curve with that new contract.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[cronaldo7]

Ha, lovin the list, no matter how unrealistic it is. My German friend who is a lifelong Bayern fan actually sent me the list, the hype is real.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/sports/mbappe-tops-value-list-of-footballers-in-europe/1869745#

Didn’t see a link posted above.