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mightymoose

CPL economics

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13 hours ago, Lofty said:

YouTube is free. A 1S subscription is $50 or more. Low YouTube subs indicates low interest from anyone but hardcore fans. Not good.

CPL channel subs are 5k. Also extremely poor.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing that you have one.

I just realized I'm not subbed to either channel... Watch most if not all of the content, but not subbed.

I guess I can boost the subscriber number a little, but I'm already paying audience so I doubt there's much real benefit...

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Before we decide the issue is with the general public not paying for content, how many of us are actually paying for the One Soccer service?  Would be interesting to know if it’s north or south of 25%.

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9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Before we decide the issue is with the general public not paying for content, how many of us are actually paying for the One Soccer service?  Would be interesting to know if it’s north or south of 25%.

I suspect lots of us are (I am).  I think the issue is that we are not representative of the broader public. 

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29 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Before we decide the issue is with the general public not paying for content, how many of us are actually paying for the One Soccer service?  Would be interesting to know if it’s north or south of 25%.

Could be worth a poll. I do feel like there are quite a few people here who don't which I find incredible given that this is something we've all wanted for years

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19 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Could be worth a poll. I do feel like there are quite a few people here who don't which I find incredible given that this is something we've all wanted for years

I regularly see people on the V's FB page asking for free stream links for games that are on OS.  I usually point them to OS and also (probably annoyingly) moralize that the V's page shouldn't be used to undermine  the media organization providing an excellent and affordable platform for Canadian footy.

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2 hours ago, Rintaran said:

I just realized I'm not subbed to either channel... Watch most if not all of the content, but not subbed.

I guess I can boost the subscriber number a little, but I'm already paying audience so I doubt there's much real benefit...

I just use subs as a heuristic but I agree that views on the videos is the important number. And unfortunately they are also very low, as one would expect with a low subscriber count.

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45 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Could be worth a poll. I do feel like there are quite a few people here who don't which I find incredible given that this is something we've all wanted for years

They are giving them away free next season so that tells us something.

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

They are giving them away free next season so that tells us something.

I never envisioned that most of the fans going to the games had OneSoccer accounts. I would figure that a good portion of them don't. I am curious as to how many of us who waste away our work days on this site actually pay for it.

I also doubt that they are giving them away for free. I'd be very surprised if OneSoccer wasn't being compensated by the clubs

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Just now, deschamp86 said:

I never envisioned that most of the fans going to the games had OneSoccer accounts. I would figure that a good portion of them don't. I am curious as to how many of us who waste away our work days on this site actually pay for it.

I also doubt that they are giving them away for free. I'd be very surprised if OneSoccer wasn't being compensated by the clubs

Yes, a poll on here would be interesting. It is a shame if a lot of people are not just stepping up. It is about $5 a month. The price of a beer.

I was really just saying that the overall numbers must be very disappointing for them to give it away next season. But I think that is a great way to get the numbers up.

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Just now, Lofty said:

Yes, a poll on here would be interesting. It is a shame if a lot of people are not just stepping up. It is about $5 a month. The price of a beer.

I was really just saying that the overall numbers must be very disappointing for them to give it away next season. But I think that is a great way to get the numbers up.

Yeah. Part of the problem is that likely most of the people going to the games only care about their team. If they already have seasons tickets, they are only going to really be watching 14 games on OneSoccer instead of 28.

Its a great deal for someone like myself with no team in my market. When the season started I pretty much constantly had OneSoccer streaming

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5 hours ago, Lofty said:

Yes, a poll on here would be interesting. It is a shame if a lot of people are not just stepping up. It is about $5 a month. The price of a beer.

I was really just saying that the overall numbers must be very disappointing for them to give it away next season. But I think that is a great way to get the numbers up.

Rumours seem to be that numbers were very low.  At the same time, I'm assuming that after giving away (or at least discounting) a kit to every season ticket holder in year 1, the league needed to find something of perceived value for year 2.

Also, I'm not subscribed.  I'll catch games occasionally on CBC but that's about it.  I've done the free month once and bought one game, but honestly I'm already subscribed to enough services and the inability to watch on delay (in a reasonable amount of time) don't make it appealing to me.

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Since CPL (specifically Valour) seems to be attracting players from the League of Ireland, I thought this article on their finances (2016 season) was interesting. Apparently the average player wage bill per club was around €490 (~710k CAD) although squads do seem to be a bit bigger (~27 players).

Sources of revenue is also interesting, particularly the lack of transfer revenue, which might be an early lesson for CPL expectations in that area as the two leagues do seem quite comparable in a number of aspects.

"In all, 32pc of revenue came from commercial and sponsorship opportunities, with 21pc taken from gate receipts and 4pc from other sources. Just 1pc of revenue comes from transfer proceeds and the absence of a TV deal is another factor that sets the League of Ireland apart from the high-earning leagues."

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/wages-in-league-of-ireland-rise-by-28pc-36496919.html

fai_trophies.jpg

Edited by Lofty

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Interesting video regarding the proposed All Island league. Politics aside would be fantastic. Interesting economic data that I think relates to the Canadian sport landscape and our challenges being so close to the US

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Doubt it would make much difference given what happened with the Setanta Cup and if anything it highlights why FIFA's national league structure can have severe drawbacks, if you are not in one of the very few countries that obscene amounts of money get funnelled into from global broadcasting deals. Think the people pushing this are well aware that having Linfield play Bohemians rather than Larne won't suddenly transform interest levels, so it's probably mainly about politics.

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21 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Doubt it would make much difference given what happened with the Setanta Cup and if anything it highlights why FIFA's national league structure can have severe drawbacks, if you are not in one of the very few countries that obscene amounts of money get funnelled into from global broadcasting deals. Think the people pushing this are well aware that having Linfield play Bohemians rather than Larne won't suddenly transform interest levels, so it's probably mainly about politics.

So how would you increase interest level?

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Won't happen any time soon but I think there needs to be a UEFA-wide league structure to break the stranglehold that the English, Spanish, German and Italian leagues have and provide a viable way in to the higher levels for a Dublin or Belfast club and a way back to competing for a continental title for clubs like Ajax, Benfica and Red Star Belgrade. It's similar to how things are in CONCACAF in many ways. There is zero chance of high level full-time professionalism in a country like Jamaica if clubs are confined to a Jamaica only league. The national league structure is OK for some countries but places a glass ceiling on what's doable in others.

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17 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Won't happen any time soon but I think there needs to be a UEFA-wide league structure to break the stranglehold that the English, Spanish, German and Italian leagues have and provide a viable way in to the higher levels for a Dublin or Belfast club and a way back to competing for a continental title for clubs like Ajax, Benfica and Red Star Belgrade. It's similar to how things are in CONCACAF in many ways. There is zero chance of high level full-time professionalism in a country like Jamaica if clubs are confined to a Jamaica only league. The national league structure is OK for some countries but places a glass ceiling on what's doable in others.

So you suggest an all island league. I kinda don't care about Irish football. I just posted the video because the data is interesting and relates to Canadian sports in many ways

Edited by SpursFlu

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Don't think an all-island league makes sense at this point. This is really about politics rather than football and things are still not at the point where Derry City vs Linfield is just another game rather than an accident waiting to happen in security terms. The IFA have already vetoed it as far as I'm aware:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50254193

Beyond that I really don't think there is much of a parallel with Canada given we get to have teams in MLS, because FIFA has been flexible on the national league structure where Canada is concerned as they saw that as the best way to foster the growth of the sport in a Canadian context.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Don't think an all-island league makes sense at this point. This is really about politics rather than football and things are still not at the point where Derry City vs Linfield is just another game rather than an accident waiting to happen in security terms. The IFA have already vetoed it as far as I'm aware:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50254193

Beyond that I really don't think there is much of a parallel with Canada given we get to have teams in MLS, because FIFA has been flexible on the national league structure where Canada is concerned as they saw that as the best way to foster the growth of the sport in a Canadian context.

Cool

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7 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Interesting video regarding the proposed All Island league. Politics aside would be fantastic. Interesting economic data that I think relates to the Canadian sport landscape and our challenges being so close to the US

At ~3:15 they mention the short term contacts which result in little or no compensation when players leave. CPL need to eventually address this if they hope to include non-negligible transfer revenue in their business model.

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I think with the u23 import approach and Borges resigning maybe just to move on this is definitely on their radar. If you look around the world at all the trampoline leagues, this is a way to become economically viable. Alphonso and Jonathan David in a round a bout way may be the best things to ever happen to the CPL

Edited by SpursFlu

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This guy is a fabulous writer (link below). Excellent article on the economics of lower division football in the US (Apr 2018). Set aside 15-20 mins to read it as the article is quite long.

...

"As things stand currently, teams are losing millions every year. And no, I’m not just talking about a team owned by everyone’s favorite lower-division braggadocios billionaire who claims to have lost $18 million. I’m talking about responsible owners, who are consistently finding themselves in the red year after year, with no real respite in sight."

...

"There seem to be three ownership models currently in the USL. The early teams, who are trying to decide between selling and finding additional investors to mitigate losing millions each year. And MLS dreamers, who are investing heavily in their teams in order to attract the roving Eye of Garber. And finally, there has been a recent influx of owners in the USL who happen to also own baseball teams. By investing in soccer, these owners are able to drive more tickets and schedule more dates into their baseball stadiums."

"This triumvirate set of owners are using disparate methodological solutions to the problem."

...

https://www.soctakes.com/2018/04/18/too-small-to-succeed-the-perils-of-owning-a-lower-division-pro-soccer-team/

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Isn't it common knowledge that sports teams are generally a money losing business for their rich owners? The major exceptions are the centralised control economies of the big four leagues in North America.

Edited by Ruffian

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7 hours ago, Ruffian said:

Isn't it common knowledge that sports teams are generally a money losing business for their rich owners? The major exceptions are the centralised control economies of the big four leagues in North America.

Where would that leave CPL? Needing a bunch of rich owners willing to bleed millions of dollars every year for the privilege of owning a CPL club?

I don't think that would ever happen, so CPL needs to learn to be profitable by examining those leagues that are losing money.

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