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CONCACAF U-20 Championship (November 2018)


Lou

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8 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

I didn't watch the first game, watched the second half of the second game, the full Panama game, and the last 20 minutes of yesterday's game.

I thought we actually played pretty well in midfield and up front in the Panama game, but otherwise...

1. Our defence, to a man, was terrible.
2. Through 65 minutes of the 2nd and 4th matches, there was a single moment of quality, and that was the 3 subs combining to score the winning goal against Guadaloupe.
3. Choiniere looks like a proper player and one who might develop into an excellent pro over the next few years.
4. Baldisimo, Bair, Okello, Reid, and Bayiha (sp?) could, if they become smarter, develop into serviceable pros.
5. The rest of the outfield players may as well get binned right now, because I can't see them ever being significant factors for the MNT at any point, ever.

Those are just my takeaways from this tournament. Take 'em or leave 'em.

This is typical. We generally get a standout or two, a few serviceable  guys, and a bunch of throw aways every cycle.

My hope is that CPL gives the throw aways a decent level to play for a living. Some of them may find a path to the senior team that way.

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17 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Without the red card, we probably beat Panama

That's quite a leap of faith. It's not like we were winning the game at the time of the red card. I admit, I wasn't yet watching the game by the time of the red card, but when there is still over an hour left and you aren't even ahead, it's quite a projection to say we would have won. Especially considering Panama won their group the last two tournaments (in groups with USA both times) while Canada was busy crashing out. In fact, I just found out that Panama has now won their last 14 group games in this tournament, going back to their last loss in 2011! So they just clinched their 4th consecutive group win at the U20 men's level.

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I just had lunch at a bar that had a TV on CP24. CP24 had a headline on their ticker about yesterday's loss to St. Kitts and Nevis. I heard a table next to mine read it out loud. This is helping reinforce people's thoughts about Canadian soccer. I even heard one of the people at the table say "I know where St. Kitts is, but I don't know where Nevis is."

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Just now, Kent said:

I just had lunch at a bar that had a TV on CP24. CP24 had a headline on their ticker about yesterday's loss to St. Kitts and Nevis. I heard a table next to mine read it out loud. This is helping reinforce people's thoughts about Canadian soccer. I even heard one of the people at the table say "I know where St. Kitts is, but I don't know where Nevis is."

No matter how some want to spin this the bottom line is it is unacceptable and embarrassing with potential to set back the image of our whole men's program! Hopefully this will be a wake up call for the senior team if one was in fact needed because a loss next Sunday would be a complete disaster!

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The worst part for me, is this is another case of us shooting ourselves in the foot. The media does the same old "we lost to a minnow", soccer is stupid story which helps kill gains made in the last few years.  We could have at least tried to get one of the top kids down there for the first slate of games.  I know we dont know the whole story, but this just reeks of the same old sh#t.  And if the reasoning really was we needed them for the CMNT, then all 4 better see the field next week.  

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26 minutes ago, Kent said:

I just had lunch at a bar that had a TV on CP24. CP24 had a headline on their ticker about yesterday's loss to St. Kitts and Nevis. I heard a table next to mine read it out loud. This is helping reinforce people's thoughts about Canadian soccer. I even heard one of the people at the table say "I know where St. Kitts is, but I don't know where Nevis is."

I hope you see then again in a few weeks and they catch the scoreline: 

Canada outclasses SKN in qualifying!

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2 hours ago, shamrock said:

He should be fired? You're only as good as the players you have. I'm not at all surprised by this result, we had mediocre players and this results are in. 

He’s the one picking the players, the tactics, motivation, preparation. It’s all  on the manager. Im so sick of the CSA hiring no name/ no experience  managers for our youth teams. Herdman put his buddy in there and he shit the bed. 

There are Canadian managers ( if they wanted to stay with a Canadian ) out there that are more  qualify then that tool. 

 

Also The CSA should go after Concacacf over the  referees and the  venue, that pitch was  garbage after the the amount of games playing on it and  The format and the schedule. Even if it doesn’t change anything, I want to see the CSA make a statement. 

Edited by SpecialK
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Oliveiri ran the show with the womens U-20 program and was coach there under Herdman (assistant coach) for the senior womens side.  The same logic in bringing Herdman over (to the mens side) works with bringing oliveri over to guide the mens U-20. He is only there because Herdman wants him there.  Seems to me that Biello should have been handling the coaching like at Touloun, but what do I know?? I guess someone prioritized Touloun more than the U-20 WC qualifying.   

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27 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

He’s the one picking the players, the tactics, motivation, preparation. It’s all  on the manager. Im so sick of the CSA hiring no name/ no experience  managers for our youth teams. Herdman put his buddy in there and he shit the bed. 

There are Canadian managers ( if they wanted to stay with a Canadian ) out there that are more  qualify then that tool. 

 

Also The CSA should go after Concacacf over the  referees and the  venue, that pitch was  garbage after the the amount of games playing on it and  The format and the schedule. Even if it doesn’t change anything, I want to see the CSA make a statement. 

Whether this is a good format or not is up for debate. But I don't think we failed due to format. This is the 4th championship in a row that has had a different format, and we failed at all of them. 4 groups of 3 with top 2 advancing to quarter finals is no good (2013), 2 groups of 6 with top 3 advancing is no good (2015), 3 groups of 4 with top 2 advancing is no good (2017), 6 groups with 4 of them having 6 teams and 2 of them with 5 teams is no good (2018).

It's not the format that is keeping us out of the top 4. It's that we aren't a top 4 team in CONCACAF that keeps us from the U20 World Cup. The reasons for that we could (and have already) talk all day about.

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

Whether this is a good format or not is up for debate. But I don't think we failed due to format. This is the 4th championship in a row that has had a different format, and we failed at all of them. 4 groups of 3 with top 2 advancing to quarter finals is no good (2013), 2 groups of 6 with top 3 advancing is no good (2015), 3 groups of 4 with top 2 advancing is no good (2017), 6 groups with 4 of them having 6 teams and 2 of them with 5 teams is no good (2018).

It's not the format that is keeping us out of the top 4. It's that we aren't a top 4 team in CONCACAF that keeps us from the U20 World Cup. The reasons for that we could (and have already) talk all day about.

My issue with the format and the schedule is that it’s not during FIFA windows. If Europe figured out this issue why can’t Concacaf? 

I think we had the talent to  qualify without our big guns. Most of the players we had played in the Toulon Tourney and we played well. But it’s not fair if we ( all teams ) don’t have the option to call all our  eligible players. If all the big players were allowed to play from every Concacaf nation would’ve raised the bar for the  consideration. Concacaf dropped the ball! Like normal!

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9 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

My issue with the format and the schedule is that it’s not during FIFA windows. If Europe figured out this issue why can’t Concacaf? 

I think we had the talent to  qualify without our big guns. Most of the players we had played in the Toulon Tourney and we played well. But it’s not fair if we ( all teams ) don’t have the option to call all our  eligible players. If all the big players were allowed to play from every Concacaf nation would’ve raised the bar for the  consideration. Concacaf dropped the ball! Like normal!

I don't know how UEFA does it, but if the games were in FIFA windows presumably it would be just as hard to get our senior team teenagers since they would have games with the senior team at that time.

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8 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't know how UEFA does it, but if the games were in FIFA windows presumably it would be just as hard to get our senior team teenagers since they would have games with the senior team at that time.

I would rather  that problem,  then being denied the option.  

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Hiring Herdsman to the men’s team was suspect from the beginning. I didn’t like it then and I don’t like it now. Canada soccer has more problems than anyone is willing to admit and everyone at the top are lacking in vision and innovation and really should have been removed long ago. It is so obvious, but let’s blame it on the rain instead of where it squarely sits. Canada soccer board made a horrible decision in removing Zambrano, but that is just my opinion. I don’t think Herdsman was ever the answer. He is a great speaker and probably has good ideas, but my feeling is he would be better suited to administration / spokesperson for the CSA as he seems well suited for that. Selection is a huge problem. There are many u20 players that could’ve done a much better job, but we always seem to get that wrong because the wrong people are in charge. Top to bottom needs to change, but no one can do that except the people funding the program. Perhaps that is the way to get things done. Very sad to see this outcome.

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I've spent some time thinking about why we're having such difficulties against relatively small countries, and I think i realize why: It's because we're too big. It takes a lot of effort to bring a team together from all parts of the Great White North, and the pieces the coaches pick don't always gel in time before the tournament is over. But these small nations with a population the size of Fredericton all have their players within 2 hours of their respective training grounds and build chemistry throughout the year.

So perhaps we should revamp how the CSA chooses their U20 team. We should be looking at the best team instead of the best players. So, organize qualifying on a Regional basis around individual clubs that have been playing together for long periods of time. Get players playing for their team to reach a bigger stage. Think of Curling, how the provinces play against each other in a round-robin tournament format, then the winner goes out to medal at the Worlds.

Have the best 8 U20 local teams from each region (BC, Alberta, Manitoba+Saskatchewan+Territories, Ontario, Quebec, Maritimes+Newfoundland - each region uses whatever method they feel will result in the best representative) get together for a week-long  double elimination knock-out tournament. The winner of the tournament becomes the Canadian U20 representative team. The CSA pays their transportation and accommodations to whatever location is hosting.

This method can't produce any worse results than what we've seen the last two decades. Why continue with the insanity?

Edited by Initial B
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On 11/8/2018 at 4:01 PM, Ansem said:

York 9 select defeats Juventus ✔️

Atlantic Selects defeats Fortuna Dusseldorf ✔️

Youth teams getting beat year after year since the MLS era and with MLS heavy roster 

Hopefully CPL changes things and we stop our blind reliance on MLS Academies because...it ain't working. 

So Canada is getting embarrassed by a country with a population the size of my old high school and the best you got is to blame the MLS really!

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21 minutes ago, shamrock said:

Who are they?

There was no camp of 40 -60 players, We had one tourney in France but that had a mix of  eligible and nine eligible players , which was great and we need to go back. But there was no extra friendlies to see who are the best players. Maybe we would get the same players. I don’t think it was a talent problem. It was a coaching, lack preparation and at the end the lack of  motivation. Time and time again the CSA hires  amateur coaches. I have said this time and time again and no body believers me. Herdman put his buddy ( a CSA lacky) in with no  experience in the men’s qualifier and he got  exposed.

if you had - Mark Watson, Mauro Biello, Dwight Lodeweges or even Michael Findlay in there. We would have a different   Results I’m sure of it 

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:27 AM, deschamp86 said:

Canada automatically qualified in 2007. So they haven't earned a spot since 2005, so its actually even worse than you make it sound

The strange thing thing is that the u20 NT did really well in 2003.  But its been a massive drop since then.  We’ve fallen off a cliff.  I didnt think 2005 was very good even though they did play at the U20 world cup.  Not much to say about 2007 because when you are the hosts and fail to qualify for the knockout stage, that pretty much says it all.  

I am out of explanations for this.  

Edit:  to continue my thought.  The strange thing is, when the academy sides (which are comprised of cnd players obviously) go to the youth tounaments in places like Italy or in Dallas etc.  They seem to show that they can hold their own. A few years, a TFC youth clubs went to that prestigious tounament in Italy playing some academies from some of the biggest clubs in world. That tournament was reputed for having top youth talent.  And,  from the results, at the very least,  you can say that they showed can play with the top sides in the world.  So why is it that whenever  these players play under the auspices of the CSA, they suddenly cant beat St kitts and panama.

Edited by Free kick
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On 11/7/2018 at 9:17 PM, Soccerpro said:

I'm going to nitpick here.

A few years ago, the CSA decided the reason our youth teams were unsuccessful was a lack of preparation. They held a ton of camps and friendlies (in Central America no less!). Every youth coach was hyping up the preparation in every interview.

Perhaps no youth team in CSA history had as much money spent on them for preparation as the last edition of the u20s managed by Rob Gale. They played a ton of friendlies IN Central America and looked at a ton of players in different camps. No expense was spared. Google it, I promise you'll find evidence!

Guess what happened in that Concacaf qualifying tournament? Go ahead and guess...

Heres an alternative theory to our woes: our youth players, for whatever reason, even those in MLS academies , aren't very good soccer players, especially when faced with adverse conditions and there's nothing a CSA staff coach can do about it with the limited amount of time they get with these young players.

You make some good points about the preparation part.  Just prior to the 2007 WC that canada hosted,  they had played a ton of prep matches prior to the tounament.  And then look what happened.   Preparation, is obviously important, but no national squad from any country is well prepared going into a youth tournament.

I agree, lack of preparation is one of those lame excused we like to throw out there everytime. 

Edited by Free kick
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9 minutes ago, Free kick said:

You make some good points about the preparation part.  Just prior to the 2007 WC that canada hosted,  they had played a ton of prep matches prior to the tounament.  And then look what happened.   Preparation, is obviously important, but nobody is well prepared going into a youth tournament comprised of national teams.   

I agree, lack of preparation is one of those lame excused we like to throw out there everytime. 

Who was the manager for the 2007 World Cup .... ??  Oh wait I know ! Dale Mitchell

We need a real manager and real plan for the youth teams. A Camp or two with 40-60 play pool and a decent amount of games to figure out who’s the best. 

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