Kadenge Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, Obinna said: This is kinda funny when you think if it. All NT coaches should get a pass! Why? Because the clubs developed their players lol Thats a simplification of what I said. I did not say that coaching is not a factor but given that our youth teams don't play friendlies and don't have a significant camp to gel or to develop set plays one has to rely on a certain level of quality. I am not sure if you have watched any of the games but players are lacking certain basic attributes that are frankly quite shocking at this level. Given our soccer infrastructure with 3 MLS teams the inference that SK is posibly on par with us is staggering Junkie and hamiltonfan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Kadenge said: Thats a simplification of what I said. I did not say that coaching is not a factor but given that our youth teams don't play friendlies and don't have a significant camp to gel or to develop set plays one has to rely on a certain level of quality. I am not sure if you have watched any of the games but players are lacking certain basic attributes that are frankly quite shocking at this level. Given our soccer infrastructure with 3 MLS teams the inference that SK is posibly on par with us is staggering Which you can't do unless your quality is much much better Academies can only do so much to improve quality, and I would argue it's not nearly enough to overcome the disadvantages you point out. Addressing those things is where I would look, not the academies these players come from. Edited November 8, 2018 by Obinna Free kick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 35 minutes ago, Keegan said: Look at players 92 birth year and younger in our pool and let’s see where they came from to settle the MLS academy debate. Non-MLS academy: David, Larin, Piette, Osorio, Cavallini, James, Cornelius, Akindele, Millar MLS Academy: Henry, Teibert, Davies, Tabla, Crepeau, Adekugbe, Godinho, Kaye So it doesn’t look like there is a big disparity in terms of development but that looks like a 50/50 split and that isn’t reflected in squad selection.. so maybe that’s the issue here. As we’ve learned in the case of Millar, TFC is based a lot on the provincial team so the favouritism isn’t confined to any one spot. We need to evaluate talent better across all levels. It’s absolutely unforgivable for instance that Cornelius is a starter on our MNT but never got a u20 call.. look at other guys in MLS too like Wright, Awuah and Laryea all largely ignored by the youth teams but not by MLS scouts? Clear favouritism or incompetence. Perhaps nit picking, but I would say it's more so incompetence. Even that is harsh, I would say not doing your due diligence. And I would say that is harsh also, because there is an element of personal bias for what a coach sees in a player. Unless someone is a phenom like Davies, you're going to get split opinion on the player sometimes. These things happen. The other thing to consider is rate of development. Maybe coaches were right not to select Cornelius at the time. Maybe not getting called motivated him to be the senior player he is today. It is not always so cut and dry. shamrock and Free kick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Like TFC saying that Liam Millar was too short...before going to Europe Edited November 9, 2018 by Ansem SirBobsaget 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, Ansem said: Like TFC saying that Liam Millar was too short... Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Obinna said: Exactly. boy were they wrong though Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 54 minutes ago, Obinna said: Acadamies aren't magical factories where every good player becomes great. They are places were elite players can play with other elite players and get elite training, instead of playing with a local amateur club, where they are surrounded by less talented players. The elite players who never had academies to play in before were still elite players, and they were selected for youth national teams. Academy training polishes them, but any individual polishing counts for little compared to the other factors I listed, which any team needs to get results, such as team tactics, cohesion, belief, playing style, familiarity. Getting results in a tournament is different than a skills competition. That's why I specifically pointed out the players as individuals wrt being savvy, technical ect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack15 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) BS Excuses, totally opposite from Herdman’s mentality. He should be fired Your typical CSA Coach saying “We fought, we were there, it just didn’t happen” Edited November 9, 2018 by Thomas hamiltonfan, Junkie and romurra 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 The team was no good. Nevertheless, Without the red card, we probably beat Panama and at least get closer to qualifying than in years past. Instead, the reality of the red card bears to light the top to bottom failure of this qualifying project. We could almost be happy about that if it meant change to the way we approach these qualifications. But in the end it will not matter that we were humiliated. No heads will roll. No one will take responsibility. You think the staff will even make themselves available to the media? Please! It will be as if nothing happened. Olivieri will probably get promoted up the CSA ranks. SirBobsaget, Junkie and Blackjack15 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 50 minutes ago, BrennanFan said: The team was no good. Nevertheless, Without the red card, we probably beat Panama and at least get closer to qualifying than in years past. Instead, the reality of the red card bears to light the top to bottom failure of this qualifying project. We could almost be happy about that if it meant change to the way we approach these qualifications. But in the end it will not matter that we were humiliated. No heads will roll. No one will take responsibility. You think the staff will even make themselves available to the media? Please! It will be as if nothing happened. Olivieri will probably get promoted up the CSA ranks. Rob Gale literally only left because he got offered the Winnipeg job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I was forgiving after the Panama match because we took a red so early. I didn’t see the first half and it could have been one boneheaded move by one selfish player. But losing to SKN is inexcusable. We have 3 professional clubs and a bunch of others at clubs across Europe. If the group we brought couldn’t beat these guys then we for sure should have brought the big guns. If they couldn’t get released then make that the excuse, not this garbage. And this is coming from an admitted CSA apologist. The coach or whoever is in charge of the roster should go. El Hombre and SpecialK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoH037 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Arent you all kind of relieved now that the senior team kept all its guns? As much as this result for our U20 sucks, it would have sucked even more for our senior team to be shocked by St Kitts and Nevis in CNL Free kick and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, LeoH037 said: Arent you all kind of relieved now that the senior team kept all its guns? As much as this result for our U20 sucks, it would have sucked even more for our senior team to be shocked by St Kitts and Nevis in CNL No. We don't yet know how the senior St Kitts squad will play. We may end up getting a win fairly comfortably - in which case you might conclude that we absolutely could have spared a couple of our top U20 players to help the boys qualify for the U20 WC. All we know at this point is that the absence of our four best U20 players really impacted our chances of advancing. If we win in st Kitts by a single goal - and it comes from Tabla to Davies - then we will know the right choice was made. But there are lots of scenarios where I still wouldn't feel good about the way this was handled. HochelagaFC, xabuep2, MtlMario and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Manager and players should be absolutely embarrassed. Resign 1996 and romurra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBobsaget Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Blackjack15 said: BS Excuses, totally opposite from Herdman’s mentality. He should be fired Your typical CSA Coach saying “We fought, we were there, it just didn’t happen” I don't know much about this guy, in truth this is the first time I heard him speak. What a bag of worthless excuses!! Come on Hart stepped down after losing to Honduras blaming himself. This guy blames the schedule!!! All teams play the same busy schedule. He failed miserably. The team failed, there's not much potential for a national team starter in this group.If you lose to St Kitts at any level just man up and admit you failed spectacularly. If Herdman doesn't react to this then I will lose even more optimism for the future of the program. Blackjack15, romurra and Junkie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northvansteve Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, SirBobsaget said: I don't know much about this guy, in truth this is the first time I heard him speak. What a bag of worthless excuses!! Come on Hart stepped down after losing to Honduras blaming himself. This guy blames the schedule!!! All teams play the same busy schedule. He failed miserably. The team failed, there's not much potential for a national team starter in this group.If you lose to St Kitts at any level just man up and admit you failed spectacularly. If Herdman doesn't react to this then I will lose even more optimism for the future of the program. Can't stand the "back-to-back games" excuse when literally every other team plays the same schedule. romurra and hamiltonfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBobsaget Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Northvansteve said: Can't stand the "back-to-back games" excuse when literally every other team plays the same schedule. Its a valid excuse for a country that would have bad depth like a tiny island with 35,000 residents. Canada U20 just lost to at best a Canada College team. St Kitts does get better on the Senior level because some dual national Uk players go over later. But at youth level losing to them is shameful. If you're involved in this result on the pitch or in coaching then you have no future in soccer. Edited November 9, 2018 by SirBobsaget romurra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, LeoH037 said: Arent you all kind of relieved now that the senior team kept all its guns? As much as this result for our U20 sucks, it would have sucked even more for our senior team to be shocked by St Kitts and Nevis in CNL Which is still possible...No overall I guess I'd have to agree with the call. The senior game is more important. Blackdude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northvansteve Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 So I watched the first half of this game and...ugh... Midfield was a horror show. Okello was completely ineffective - which is too bad because he has been very good overall. Verhoeven ran everywhere and accomplished nothing - he didn't show much effectiveness with his passing or attacking decisions. Fazili let his opponent run past him which led to the first goal. Hernandez made a series of pointless runs which resulted in nothing. The defense was equally a horror show. The only guy on the field who made any good impressions was Theo Bair - who worked his tail off the whole time. The youth failures are getting very very tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I didn't watch the first game, watched the second half of the second game, the full Panama game, and the last 20 minutes of yesterday's game. I thought we actually played pretty well in midfield and up front in the Panama game, but otherwise... 1. Our defence, to a man, was terrible. 2. Through 65 minutes of the 2nd and 4th matches, there was a single moment of quality, and that was the 3 subs combining to score the winning goal against Guadaloupe. 3. Choiniere looks like a proper player and one who might develop into an excellent pro over the next few years. 4. Baldisimo, Bair, Okello, Reid, and Bayiha (sp?) could, if they become smarter, develop into serviceable pros. 5. The rest of the outfield players may as well get binned right now, because I can't see them ever being significant factors for the MNT at any point, ever. Those are just my takeaways from this tournament. Take 'em or leave 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtlMario Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 A little humor here.....Busti back in Torino " So Busti how did the U20 go? Busti "We were undefeated until we lost to power houses Panama and (coughing)..... ST. KITTS. But the weather was good tough.?? gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lev Yashin Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 These results are all on the coaching either at club or national level. If we are unable to win against ANY concacaf of note then the young men have not been exposed to a high enough mental as well as physical level. This in turn tells you that the coaches are not either. CSA is still an old boys club that has just changed the outer cover with new flashy labels. Until the coaching reaches five levels higher expect the same results over and over again———St Kitts 2—- Canada 1. It is not just the skill level but also the Mental fortitude to drive the team forward that is needed! romurra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 14 hours ago, Blackjack15 said: BS Excuses, totally opposite from Herdman’s mentality. He should be fired Your typical CSA Coach saying “We fought, we were there, it just didn’t happen” Opposite from Herdman’s mentality??? This guy was put there by Herdman !?! He was herdman’s assistant coach from the women’s team. Herdman needs to fire this guy ASAP and he shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a national team again! But watch this will get swept under the rug and forgotten, I bet he’ll be on the bench vs St.Kitts for SMNT game. hamiltonfan, Blackjack15, romurra and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 He should be fired? You're only as good as the players you have. I'm not at all surprised by this result, we had mediocre players and this results are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, dyslexic nam said: No. We don't yet know how the senior St Kitts squad will play. We may end up getting a win fairly comfortably - in which case you might conclude that we absolutely could have spared a couple of our top U20 players to help the boys qualify for the U20 WC. All we know at this point is that the absence of our four best U20 players really impacted our chances of advancing. If we win in st Kitts by a single goal - and it comes from Tabla to Davies - then we will know the right choice was made. But there are lots of scenarios where I still wouldn't feel good about the way this was handled. Agree but must point out a goal or assist is not the only measure. It could be defensively tracking bank on a play, or making a key run off the ball. You could even argue just the physical presence from a guy like Davies is an advantage psychologically. So we can't really quantify their impact in goals and assists alone. And thus, we can't retroactively conclude the right choice was made based on whether or not they get on the scoresheet. Edited November 9, 2018 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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