Best XI

[SkuseisLoose]

4 hours ago, BleepBlap said:

Almost enough depth to field two semi-competitive teams. Except at right back, obviously (unless I'm missing someone). And I'm aware some of these players are slightly out of position. I think the first team is without question the strongest team Canada can field (except possibly at RB).

First Team:                                                                                   Second Team:

                                 Larin                                                                                              Cavallini

                                 Tabla                                                             Teibert           Millar      Wothersp.   David                 

Davies        Arfield       Osorio       Hoilett                                                               Piette

MDJ            Jakovic     Hutch        ZBG                                  Adekugbe    James    Henry           Petrasso

                                   Borjan                                                                                           Crepeau

Agree somewhat this but think cavalinni is better than Larin right now because he’s actually consistently scoring. Also think we’ll play two up front with cavalinni and larin/David with airfield and tabla/ossorrio in the middle. Otherwise agree with back line and wingers.

[soccer.shocker]

I think Herdman rates Godinho highly and if he regains his form and fitness after injury this winter I think we will see him next March in NL and probably Gold Cup ahead of petrasso

[An Observer]

If we want to see the best players on the field especially against good sides, we might see Larin or Cavallini up top with Hoilett and Balla on the wings, Arfield and Osorio in midfield and one of Piette or Hutch in front of the backline.  That would leave Davies as left back and what an attacking left back he could be with his speed and ball control.  That still leaves the issue of the right back position.  Didn’t MAK play some right or left back in the Gold Cup.  Could be an option?

[El Diego]

I can't see Larin and Cavallini together against decent sides. Neither guy does much defending and I don't think their styles complement each other. Against the Dominicas of the world they'd destroy the box and it'd be a joy to watch.

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, soccer.shocker said:

I think Herdman rates Godinho highly and if he regains his form and fitness after injury this winter I think we will see him next March in NL and probably Gold Cup ahead of petrasso

I think Godinho is already ahead of Petrasso. I think he has right back locked down until ZBG rises to challenge him there or Cordova.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I think Godinho is already ahead of Petrasso. I think he has right back locked down until ZBG rises to challenge him there or Cordova.

A 21 year old with 16 pro apps for Scottish Premiership and League Two sides is ahead of the 23 year old with 67 pro apps for Championship, League One and MLS sides?

I don’t agree at all, the RB spot is still wide open at this point.

[Bison44]

Haworth has been playing some RB with Ottawa....just saying.

[Kent]

11 hours ago, El Diego said:

I can't see Larin and Cavallini together against decent sides. Neither guy does much defending and I don't think their styles complement each other. Against the Dominicas of the world they'd destroy the box and it'd be a joy to watch.

My memory is fuzzy on this, but wasn't Cavallini defending pretty well in the Gold Cup? I thought that was part of what got everyone so excited about him. I tucked it away in my memory as him doing the little things better than Larin, and I feel like that included defending.

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, Kent said:

My memory is fuzzy on this, but wasn't Cavallini defending pretty well in the Gold Cup? I thought that was part of what got everyone so excited about him. I tucked it away in my memory as him doing the little things better than Larin, and I feel like that included defending.

I remember that as well.  He definitely harasses the defenders more than Larin - which is a pretty essential key to any sort of high press.  And given our wealth of talent up front and in mid, and our lack of depth in defence, a high press and defending from the top wouldn't be a bad strategy for us to adopt/adapt.

On another note, if it is actually true that we won't be playing Cav and Larin together, we shouldn't continue to play them together against CNL minnows.  We might as well get the guys used to Herdman's ultimate (as in eventual, not gnarly) system of play.  No point practicing a formation we have no intention of using once things get tough.

[BleepBlap]

10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Haworth has been playing some RB with Ottawa....just saying.

This is true. And he was recently named to the USL team of the week at right back. Showed great positional awareness and was dangerous going forward. Given the lack of depth at this position I think Herdman would be remiss not to consider him.

Edited September 27, 2018 by BleepBlap

[Kent]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

On another note, if it is actually true that we won't be playing Cav and Larin together, we shouldn't continue to play them together against CNL minnows.  We might as well get the guys used to Herdman's ultimate (as in eventual, not gnarly) system of play.  No point practicing a formation we have no intention of using once things get tough.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again. I imagine if we are chasing a goal against Honduras, Panama, etc, we could very well see more people thrown up front. So I think there probably is some amount of value in practising a more offensive formation against the weaker teams.

[El Diego]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

My memory is fuzzy on this, but wasn't Cavallini defending pretty well in the Gold Cup? I thought that was part of what got everyone so excited about him. I tucked it away in my memory as him doing the little things better than Larin, and I feel like that included defending.

He's certainly more active than Larin, but I'm not necessarily talking about harassing the back line but about us getting outnumbered in midfield. Arfield and Piette (or Osorio, but in a midfield two I think it has to be Piette), as solid as they are, would get outplayed by many midfield threes in CONCACAF, unless they got help from an attacker to drop back. Cavallini, for all his industry, isn't the type of striker to drop into midfield and pick up a deep lying playmaker effectively (from what I've seen -- admittedly I don't watch him every week). And although he's quite good at playing back to goal, I don't see him being able to drop deep and give numbers in midfield to possess the ball. We'd have to play quick on the counter with those two up front, which isn't necessarily a negative.

Of course, this assumes we play a flat 4-4-2. You can certainly play Larin and Cavallini together in other formations.

[Shway]

Formation variety is key. Having the ability to go from a 2-5-3, to a 3-5-2, to 5-4-1 will be massively advantageous. 

Players roles are always evolving and changing especially in the international game. The possibility of players being injured is high, so being able to adjust your formation while still having your best players on the field is always an advantage. 

I wouldn't expect us to play the same way against Mexico, vs a team like Guadeloupe, or Curaçao. 

[Califax]

I like these threads because they are equal parts optimism and trying to do a lineup without fucking up the formatting.

[soccer.shocker]

1 hour ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Formation variety is key. Having the ability to go from a 2-5-3, to a 3-5-2, to 5-4-1 will be massively advantageous. 

Players roles are always evolving and changing especially in the international game. The possibility of players being injured is high, so being able to adjust your formation while still having your best players on the field is always an advantage. 

I wouldn't expect us to play the same way against Mexico, vs a team like Guadeloupe, or Curaçao. 

#tacticalperiodization!

[Shortdutchcanuck]

I have a tough time coming up with an 18 let alone a starting 11 right now.  It's fantastic to have so many options but it means some good payers are not going to see the field.

Just as an example, when Kaye comes back from injury, is there still a way he fits into the 18 on game day?  Regardless of formation, I'm assuming a roster breakdown of roughly 3 strikers, 7 midfielders, 6 defenders, and 2 keepers. 

F - Cavallini, Larin, David

MF - Arfield, Osorio, Hutch, Piette, Hoilett, Tabla, Davies

D - whoever steps up

Not much room for Kaye (or Millar either) unless you count Davies as a defender or play a 3-5-2.

Obviously Hutch is inching toward retirement, and chances are someone will always have some injury issues.  So having this depth is key.

But we are moving toward a time where for young players like Kaye, Raheem Edwards, or even Millar as a Liverpool U-23 player, despite all they've accomplished at a young age, they will still need to bump their career up another level to be guaranteed a spot in our 18, let alone our 11.  

There should be some massive arguments in the future over roster decisions.  You see it with every USMNT roster announcement: they have a ton of depth and a ton of young prospects at very good clubs, and every time there are not only very good MLS players but players at strong clubs in Europe who are left out.  And fans have wildly different opinions about the options at certain positions.  

The goal is to get to a point where just being an occasional MLS starter, or a Bundesliga 3 or even lower-level Scottish Premiership starter, should not be enough to even get a sniff outside of friendlies and games against minnows.  

We've suddenly gotten our attack to the point where you have to be a top-level MLS player or getting minutes at a good club in Europe, Mexico, or South America.  Players who have served well in the past, like Ricketts, or who we were once excited about, like Akindele or Wotherspoon, are depth players.  

Now we need to get our defense to a similar level.

 

[baulderdash77]

I think with the roster depth that we have a 3-5-2 will be the natural formation because it gets more of our best players in a position to succeed.

Until some more depth emerges at our defending positions playing advanced and flooding the midfield will be the best way for us to stay competitive with good teams.

I really hope the CanPL becomes a breeding ground for some young Canadian defenders and players emerge because we need some.

That being said our midfield and attacking depth is reaching all time high levels with a flood of additional players coming onboard.  For the 2022 cycle we really should be the 4th best CONCACAF team and be pushing for 3rd.

[Blackjack15]

3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Until some more depth emerges at our defending positions playing advanced and flooding the midfield will be the best way for us to stay competitive with good teams.

 

3 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

I have a tough time coming up with an 18 let alone a starting 11 right now.  It's fantastic to have so many options but it means some good players are not going to see the field.

F - Cavallini, Larin, David

MF - Arfield, Osorio, Hutch, Piette, Hoilett, Tabla, Davies

D - whoever steps up

 we need to get our defense to a similar level.

 

Honestly I think that if we don’t get some new defenders from here until WCQ starts it will present a big challenge for us

For the first time ever, we have so many options attacking that a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 is an ideal formation for this team 

There’s so much healthy competition for places in our Midfield/Wingers/Strikers that it’s  a good problem to have, whether it’s the Starting XI, the 18 or the 23 that causes Herdman and company a headache is something we can look forward to 

But in all seriousness, if we want to compete with Costa Rica, Honduras, Panama to get to Qatar 2022 we NEED a renewal in our back line

Whether that’s naturalization, dual nationals (Ferreira, Tomori) or From out of nowhere we see a promising new player emerge and into the picture 

I’m actually less worried for LB/RB because we have several options 

Adekugbe, Levis, Gutierrez, Morgan as well as Petrasso, Aird, Córdova and Godihno

We need just one on eitheir side to get on and be permanent solutions 

Right now it’s Henry-James leading the way once Jakovic leaves the fold 

[PopePouri]

I think we have enough time for a CB(s) to emerge via CPL or college. 

[SpecialK]

I hope and pray we can see this starting XL soon and against some heavy weight teams. I feel we could really shock the world.

[Blackjack15]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

I hope and pray we can see this starting XL soon and against some heavy weight teams. I feel we could really shock the world.

Fingers crossed that Ferreira and Tomori commit to Canada internationally

De Jong winding down his career

brault-Guillard too young not enough pro experience and we certainly have better options at RB 

Can Tabla play CAM? Thought he was a winger

[SpecialK]

7 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Fingers crossed that Ferreira and Tomori commit to Canada internationally

De Jong winding down his career

brault-Guillard too young not enough pro experience and we certainly have better options at RB 

Can Tabla play CAM? Thought he was a winger

 those two guys are game changers even if we got Ferreira for a few important games due to being injury prone.

De Jong - totally agree with you, but right now he’s the best LB in my eyes, his got over 50 caps and nice balance with defence and offence. Morgan is good but De Jong gets the edge in my book because of  experience . Cristián Gutiérrez should be dejong replacement or Bassong.

B-G is young and yes lacks pro and international exp. but Lyon likes him a lot, that says a lot in my eyes. RB is kinda a mess because no one has  establish themselves as that go to guy. It’s all up in the air.

He mostly plays wing but has played AM a few times. My question is Ballou better than Hoilett or Davies ? I say No but one can make that  argument he is. I would love to see him at AM with that talent around him.

Edited October 3, 2018 by SpecialK

[baulderdash77]

Osorio is our best AM.  He’s a our only true AM and he’s in his prime and in form.  Tabla has been more of a wing player and right now I rate him as our 3rd best winger, which is still good as we finally have very strong wing players in Hoilett and Davies.  

[dyslexic nam]

28 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Osorio is our best AM.  He’s a our only true AM and he’s in his prime and in form.  Tabla has been more of a wing player and right now I rate him as our 3rd best winger, which is still good as we finally have very strong wing players in Hoilett and Davies.  

 

That is what I am curious about.  Despite all the hype about Tabla as a prospect, I really don't know where he ranks.  And in relation to someone like Oso, I have no baseline for comparison.  He will definitely see minutes against Dominica, but I don't know if he displaces anyone to start or gets subbed on. 

[SpecialK]

2 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Osorio is our best AM.  He’s a our only true AM and he’s in his prime and in form.  Tabla has been more of a wing player and right now I rate him as our 3rd best winger, which is still good as we finally have very strong wing players in Hoilett and Davies.  

Osorio is playing great, wonderful season ! But here is my question, can he play against the best? He’s a player playing in MLS. YES mls has gotten better but it’s still not up there. I think that’s always going to be Osorio’s knock, the question mark? I think he made a huge mistake signing a long term deal at TFC. I guess staying at home and money are more important to him than challenging his career. 

Tabla yes is playing for  Barcelona B team but his  ceiling is higher and is  exposed to the best players in the world,  The best  facilities ,  The best coaches. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by SpecialK