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HFX Wanderers launch/2019 offseason thread


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17 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

it is possible to be part of supporter culture without deluding yourself into thinking you are god's gift to football.

Sorry to go off topic, but I agree with this and was about equal parts eye-rolling and annoyed at the banner at the TFC game on Wednesday. I think it said "Football without Ultras is nothing". That has to be the most arrogant banner I have seen at a game.

End mini rant.

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8 minutes ago, Kent said:

Sorry to go off topic, but I agree with this and was about equal parts eye-rolling and annoyed at the banner at the TFC game on Wednesday. I think it said "Football without Ultras is nothing". That has to be the most arrogant banner I have seen at a game.

End mini rant.

I've been on this board since last century, and have been chanting in stands since the 70s. But thinking that somehow the couple hundred supporters on this board are something special, that we are making or breaking soccer in Canada, that the fact of singing and bouncing sets you apart, well that is just embarrassingly needy in a sort of pathological way. It is fully delusional. 

We are all adults, or mostly. So separate what you love with your sense of self-importance about it from the reality of the world beyond you. Football without ultras or chorus lines on tinny benches is just fine, thank-you. It will go on without us. In fact it almost always does.

Sure, we are passionate, have fun, are right to want some things our way, and even, occasionally, are totally right about things in the soccer world--but in the end you cannot honestly say that we are that important. No middle-aged soccer-loving fan sitting with his dad and sister near the centre line is any less than we are. That some think they are, well that is sickening.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Football without ultras or chorus lines on tinny benches is just fine, thank-you. It will go on without us. In fact it almost always does.

Not in North America in 2018 it doesn't.

There is a direct line between loud and energetic supporters and the success of MLS 2.0. Without groups like the Southsiders, Red Patch Boys, etc in the stands in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver there would have been no atmosphere. Bland sterility would have reigned that likely would have put the survival those teams at risk or even prevented investment in them.

Are "utras" still crucial? Maybe not, but that is not the fucking point.

Cushy seats for those who want to sit are a good idea. They are however way down on the priority list for 2019 and not expected by most of the target audience. (That said, you could probably build a marketing campaign around decent seating for casuals on the fence.)

BTW if you identify as a "prawn-sandwich eater" then we have a problem, or at least a failure to agree definitions. When I use that term, I am referring to is casual fans who come to the game to eat fancy food, socialise with their friends, be seen at a match, anything other than actually watching the football. This is not an either-or situation: besides them and "ultras" I would identify regulars and casuals as general categories of people in the stands.

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2 hours ago, ted said:

...Without groups like the Southsiders, Red Patch Boys, etc in the stands in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver there would have been no atmosphere. Bland sterility would have reigned that likely would have put the survival those teams at risk or even prevented investment in them...

Can only comment on the TFC part of that, but honestly don't think that is true. There was plenty of spontaneous chanting happening in the southend at BMO Field at the beginning in 2007 much to the chagrin of some in the fan groups who very much wanted to set the agenda. Overall, I think there was always going to be chanting even if nothing had happened online in advance given how many first generation immigrants who grew up with that culture overseas were around and that it was the quality of the soccer that really made the difference in the survival of the team and interest level in it, because from what I've heard over the years the atmosphere really isn't anything particularly special most of the time if you are in the expensive seats as the acoustics of the stadium are not that great. The ability of the entertainment product to sustain interest will also be what makes or breaks CanPL and the influence of fan groups will be of secondary importance compared to that.

Edit: as for this idea of MLS 2.0 being mainly about the fans in expansion cities, what tends to be conveniently forgotten in that narrative is that the Barra Brava in DC were doing that arguably better than anything that has ever happened in Toronto from the very beginning, so TFC didn't suddenly invent loud and energetic supporters in an MLS context. What really changed in fundamental terms in 2007 was the arrival of David Beckham and that later had wider effects elsewhere with the designated player rule being used by teams right across the league, which made Giovinco's arrival possible.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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3 hours ago, ted said:

Not in North America in 2018 it doesn't.

There is a direct line between loud and energetic supporters and the success of MLS 2.0. Without groups like the Southsiders, Red Patch Boys, etc in the stands in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver there would have been no atmosphere. Bland sterility would have reigned that likely would have put the survival those teams at risk or even prevented investment in them.

Are "utras" still crucial? Maybe not, but that is not the fucking point.

Cushy seats for those who want to sit are a good idea. They are however way down on the priority list for 2019 and not expected by most of the target audience. (That said, you could probably build a marketing campaign around decent seating for casuals on the fence.)

BTW if you identify as a "prawn-sandwich eater" then we have a problem, or at least a failure to agree definitions. When I use that term, I am referring to is casual fans who come to the game to eat fancy food, socialise with their friends, be seen at a match, anything other than actually watching the football. This is not an either-or situation: besides them and "ultras" I would identify regulars and casuals as general categories of people in the stands.

You are a legend in your own mind, that is what I got from this. I am happy for you Ted. 

What I don't understand is that someone like you who actually was involved in a project for a Canadian league, and an insider at a relatively young age, and extremely knowledgeable and demanding about what it all meant, has now dropped the level of the discourse to the point of basically saying you are god's gift to Canadian football and that without you it would all fall apart. 

I suggest going to the main stand one day, like invite your mom or something, and watch how the world keeps spinning and the ball keeps rolling and  you were not in fact the cornerstone holding the entire edifice up.

Edit: regarding the Southsiders or the entire "west end" of BC Place right now: the atmosphere is very poor considering how many people are there, the Southsiders have maybe half or more who stand silently, game in, game out. I've been there, and then I see it on tv, it is far from being a solid block of support. Only the Curva is consistent in support and properly unified, which is why I tend to go there. Go to Seattle: based on your principles, you get huge numbers, thousands, standing for absolutely no reason, and not supporting either. Like hipsters. The supporter culture in MLS is, up close, mostly lame, very derivative, reliant on excessive cheerleading, and not at all as committed or atmosphere-enhancing as you are making out.

I went to a promotion playoff game a few weeks ago in Barcelona, for a team to go up from 4th to 3rd tier, and the block of support behind one goal, in a stadium with 6000 capacity, was way more powerful, consistent, insane and committed than anything in MLS.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Can only comment on the TFC part of that, but honestly don't think that is true. There was plenty of spontaneous chanting happening in the southend at BMO Field at the beginning in 2007...

Edit: as for this idea of MLS 2.0 being mainly about the fans in expansion cities, what tends to be conveniently forgotten in that narrative is that the Barra Brava in DC were doing that arguably better...

 

OMG, now you are picking nits to the point of absurdity.

The point is that fans chanting and singing etc was integral to the re-birth/salvation of the league that we now call MLS 2.0. Not necessarily about supporter groups that came to MLS or developed within MLS but about people making noise and creating an exciting atmosphere at games. An atmosphere that MLS still uses in it's markeint campaigns BTW.

 

54 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are a legend in your own mind, that is what I got from this. I am happy for you Ted. 

What I don't understand is that someone like you who actually was involved in a project for a Canadian league, and an insider at a relatively young age, and extremely knowledgeable and demanding about what it all meant, has now dropped the level of the discourse to the point of basically saying you are god's gift to Canadian football and that without you it would all fall apart. 

What the actual fuck? When did this become about me personally? This is not about me nor my personal contribution nor in fact about you and yours.

I was talking about supporters in other cities. I have never been to BMO or Stade Saputo and have never been in the Southside for a Whitecaps game. If you think any of the three Canadian teams would be in MLS today without loud and boisterous supporters I think you are fooling yourself.

Middle-aged men (like me) sitting quietly in the stands watching soccer never has and never will make professional soccer in North America sustainable. Doesn't mean I can't do that or it's not contributing, it just means that for more than my lifetime it has failed to sustain a pro league.

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16 hours ago, ted said:

...Middle-aged men (like me) sitting quietly in the stands watching soccer never has and never will make professional soccer in North America sustainable...

Given that's a sizable portion of who fills the expensive seats and the corporate boxes in a TFC context I don't think that's accurate. Leagues only hang around when at least some of the franchises have demonstrated an ability to turn a profit, so middle aged reasonably high income people who are ready, willing and able to pay a disproportionate portion of the ticket revenues are a very important part of the equation on sustainability. A combination of fan groups and youth soccer groups sales in the absence of that demographic being a significant factor has usually been a recipe for eventual bankruptcy because of the low ticket prices that are involved.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Given that's a sizable portion of who fills the expensive seats and the corporate boxes in a TFC context I don't think that's accurate. Leagues only hang around when at least some of the franchises have demonstrated an ability to turn a profit, so middle aged reasonably high income people who are ready, willing and able to pay a disproportionate portion of the ticket revenues are a very important part of the equation on sustainability. A combination of fan groups and youth soccer groups sales in the absence of that demographic being a significant factor has usually been a recipe for eventual bankruptcy because of the low ticket prices that are involved.

+1. I agree 100%.  

Financial sustainability is about a mix some crazy fans in the end helping atmosphere but also largely attracting people like myself and my friends.  

We’re going to buy 6 season seats, in the lower bowl at midfield.  All my friends are late 30’s, early 40’s and we will buy the expensive seats and drink the 10 dollar beers and snacks, get merchandise and come for years.  

Get 5,000+ people like me and my friends, a core of 500-1,000 supporters and fill the balance with casuals.  That’s financial sustainability.

Edited by baulderdash77
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25 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

+1. I agree 100%.  

Financial sustainability is about a mix some crazy fans in the end helping atmosphere but also largely attracting people like myself and my friends.  

We’re going to buy 6 season seats, in the lower bowl at midfield.  All my friends are late 30’s, early 40’s and we will buy the expensive seats and drink the 10 dollar beers and snacks, get merchandise and come for years.  

Get 5,000+ people like me and my friends, a core of 500-1,000 supporters and fill the balance with casuals.  That’s financial sustainability.

I think that is great, but from what we are seeing you many not find the expensive seats in Halifax!

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19 hours ago, ted said:

 

OMG, now you are picking nits to the point of absurdity.

The point is that fans chanting and singing etc was integral to the re-birth/salvation of the league that we now call MLS 2.0. Not necessarily about supporter groups that came to MLS or developed within MLS but about people making noise and creating an exciting atmosphere at games. An atmosphere that MLS still uses in it's markeint campaigns BTW.

 

What the actual fuck? When did this become about me personally? This is not about me nor my personal contribution nor in fact about you and yours.

I was talking about supporters in other cities. I have never been to BMO or Stade Saputo and have never been in the Southside for a Whitecaps game. If you think any of the three Canadian teams would be in MLS today without loud and boisterous supporters I think you are fooling yourself.

Middle-aged men (like me) sitting quietly in the stands watching soccer never has and never will make professional soccer in North America sustainable. Doesn't mean I can't do that or it's not contributing, it just means that for more than my lifetime it has failed to sustain a pro league.

You're the one who started this by deriding me and others for criticising cheap tinny seating options.

You were being a blowhard, trying to make yourself out to be a superior fan, and were offensive and personal, with cheap "prawn-sandwich" comments. As a way to cut down my arguments. 

If you can't take what you give out, can insult without wanting it back, and think you are frigging superior to other fans, you totally deserve to be taken to task.

So grow up and if you can give, it, learn to take it,  Ted.

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On 6/14/2018 at 5:49 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

^^^Could wind up feeling a bit foolish if there is a team announced in St John's.

Just saw this. That's me. 

I'm born and raised in Nova Scotia. I've lived in St. John's for a decade, but Halifax is my city. 

I'll attend St. John's games if we get a team, however unless I personally have an equity stake in said team (haha), I suspect I'll always be rooting for Hali deep down. And even if I do grow to love an eventual St. John's team, I want access to early merch and new and possible ticket discounts when I travel home over the next few years.

Thinking of doing my Bachelor party next summer in NS with some buddies there, I expect I'll try to line it up with a game and spend a night or two at the Casino. 

So yeah, I dunno, I'm happy to chuck $50 at CPL. 

Edited by Copes
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Not *quite* the home yet. The stadium configuration for the Wanderers will be different from this one.

For starters, there will be two grandstands, rather than just one, plus an open-air bar. As far as I know, the plan is to install cushioned seats on the grandstands as well, but I have no confirmation on that.

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SEA podcast w/Derek Martin (no direct link SEA website, uploaded yesterday)

-Talked about ball hockey tournament they ran.  Talked importance of corporate partners (Canadian Tire, Boston Pizza, Subway, Booster Juice, Good Life)

-Talked the stadium and the rugby game, near sell out

-Talk on HFX Wanderers-launched exceeded his expectations in every regard (numbers, excitement).  Around 700 memberships (when recorded last Saturday), had hoped for 500. 

-Announcements in the next couple of weeks of coach/GM (will be one person)

-Other events planned to keep momentum going

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Just curious, but has the ownership group addressed the possible CFL expansion in to the maritimes? I'd assume it wouldn't impact a core of soccer fans, but that it could impact casual-fan ticket sales, and that local advertising revenue might be a bit more divided.

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6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Just curious, but has the ownership group addressed the possible CFL expansion in to the maritimes? I'd assume it wouldn't impact a core of soccer fans, but that it could impact casual-fan ticket sales, and that local advertising revenue might be a bit more divided.

Not recently that I can recall, last thing I can find is this from the beginning of the year http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1533160-would-halifax-support-pro-football

Mostly just questions the economic feasibility of the CFL in Halifax given the costs, lack of stadium and lack of culture there.

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Absolutely no need to address that issue. The odds of a 25,000 seat stadium being built in Halifax are about the same as an expansion team winning the Stanley Cup......... lol  Seriously though a CFL franchise would be several years away (and it really is a long shot). If we ever did get a team it would be just one more even competing for entertainment dollars. I will say this there is little serious interest in the CFL present day in Halifax. I personally don't know anyone who follows it.  Derek Martin has always said he feels 5000-10000 is the right size for Halifax and I agree. 

 

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54 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Absolutely no need to address that issue. The odds of a 25,000 seat stadium being built in Halifax are about the same as an expansion team winning the Stanley Cup......... lol  Seriously though a CFL franchise would be several years away (and it really is a long shot). If we ever did get a team it would be just one more even competing for entertainment dollars. I will say this there is little serious interest in the CFL present day in Halifax. I personally don't know anyone who follows it.  Derek Martin has always said he feels 5000-10000 is the right size for Halifax and I agree. 

 

I respectfully disagree. I think that this Maritime Football ownership group is serious and they are taking all the right steps right now. I believe they will be making a Landsdowne type of pitch with commercial property and promised new taxes. My thinking is that if SEA were able to get in on the planning phase of the new stadium they might be able to get some concessions that would help the atmosphere for them as they build their fan base. The way the Whitecaps have done at BC Place, but on a smaller scale. 

We will definitely know something on July 17th when this is supposed to go public. There will be a ton of opposition. It seems to be the Halifax way. Derek Martin had enough trouble building a temp stadium at no cost to the city.

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I also think they are serious but there is no real support for the CFL in Halifax. Less support for public money in a stadium after the Convention center fiasco. I mean how can you pitch a stadium that requires 10's of millions of public funding for 9 games a year? Sure one or 2 concerts and a few University games. The reality is a 25,000-30,000 seat stadium is a massive long shot. While the ownership group claims to be serious they don't have the money to build such a thing. It also very doubtful such a thing is any way remotely viable. 

Nor do I think a CFL team is viable in Halifax. Dont get me wrong I would love to have one here. I do enjoy grid iron football. However as a guy who knows many sports fans (hockey, soccer, football, baseball and even basketball) I dont know a single one who is excited in any way about the CFL coming to Halifax. Major red flag.

 

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Derek Martin did address the Halifax CFL question in a 4 part tweet on Nov17/2017.  I'd say they have different visions as the what would be required to make it fly.  Downtown intimate atmosphere vs big stadium in Burnside for one.  Not sure about my cut and paste skills, but here is the bulk of it:

 

Derek Martin @DerekBySEA 17 Nov 2017

 4 – We believe our accepted proposal for a right sized, privately funded, modular stadium located in the heart of downtown on the historic Wanderers Grounds is the best option for our downtown and our community right now but we are excited to see what the future brings. (3/3)

Derek Martin @DerekBySEA
3 – We believe the global sport of soccer is on the upswing and has a bright future in Canada. We also believe the soccer fan demographic aligns very well with the emerging identity of Halifax as an urban dense, youth and immigrant friendly, international city. (2/3) https://twitter.com/ProducedBySEA/status/931608577017511938 
0 replies 6 retweets 17 likes

Derek Martin Retweeted Derek Martin

3 – We believe the global sport of soccer is on the upswing and has a bright future in Canada. We also believe the soccer fan demographic aligns very well with the emerging identity of Halifax as an urban dense, youth and immigrant friendly, international city. (2/3)

 

Derek Martin @DerekBySEA
Lots of questions re: our position on CFL in Halifax story so here you go: 1 - We have had some discussions with the group but are not currently part of it. 2 - We believe a rising tide lifts all boats so we support any effort to bring more sports & ent options to Halifax. (1/3)
0 replies 7 retweets 18 likes
 
 

Lots of questions re: our position on CFL in Halifax story so here you go: 1 - We have had some discussions with the group but are not currently part of it. 2 - We believe a rising tide lifts all boats so we support any effort to bring more sports & ent options to Halifax. (1/3)

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