York 9 2019 launch/offseason thread

[mpg_29]

OK lets cut cut the bullshit......BBTB how much is Garber paying you? 

[shermanator]

I promised myself I wouldn't post on this board again once 2019 rolled around, because, well what's the point? But I figured I would log in and give myself as evidence to the fact that posters like BBTB are driving away good people from this board. Those of us who are trying to make the CPL, and the supporters scene, successful in CPL cities. I don't know whether I would consider myself a good poster; I happen to still have the highest number of "likes" despite rarely posting for the last 18 months, but that is not really the point here.

It is famously said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That is the case here. If you do not get rid of posters like BBTB, you will never get the discussion back to where it could be. 

And to show what is going on in the real world, outside of this board, here's what myself and 5 other guys in Calgary have turned the supporters scene into in 4 years. We've gone from 6, to 62 (by my latest count), in the span of 4 years. All unabashed supporters of watching local players suit up to play in a Canadian league.

Edited February 1, 2019 by shermanator

[m-g-williams]

Apart from agreeing with pretty much everything that's been said in the last few hours (sidenote: man, the fit hit the shan today), I don't think there's much more to say. And seeing as rational discussion and argument does not seem to have any impact on his fixation with decrying just about every aspect of the CPL, I'll simply add this: for anyone else who constantly gets fed up with reading BBTB's posts, this may help.

https://twitter.com/EffinBirds

Edited February 1, 2019 by m-g-williams

[MtlMario]

I said this once before. BBTB once tried opening a Pessimist Club but then thought "Naw it'll never work". Just like Johnny Carson once said "It's just a joke.??

Edited February 1, 2019 by MtlMario

[KW519]

 

[yellowsweatygorilla]

It's not mentioned but Munir Saleh is another L1O player, playing for Vaughan last year (KW and Whitecaps before that). 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

Darn it! I was hoping that maybe Cox would have come back to Edmonton. Oh well, Ameobi is essencially at the same level as Cox is.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Dino Rossi was quick to point that out on twitter as well. Can remember watching Tomasz Radzinski playing in a CNSL game at the German Club in London around 1993 or so. Sometimes guys that play for teams like that make it all the way to the big time.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Big_M]

Three solid signings..wow Saleh foregoes final year at UCONN

[Unnamed Trialist]

I've been banned on this board before and I took it like whatever I was at the time (4% Neaderthal and the rest Sapiens I guess), I don't think it is an unfair solution at some moments on the board. I would not rule it out, a week's ban. Sometimes it can be a sort of favour to a poster, not all of us can control our every reflex.

As I give it out and try to take it too, and maybe have a higher tolerance for the dissidence because of it, but have to admit, this week BBTB has quite teed me off and I've seen myself posting like others here with a shorter fuse for negativity. Mind you, in the pre-CPL lead up, I was also very cynical about it coming off well, but that is age and experience with repeated screw-ups in our country, and very incompetent soccer officials. So I coincided with BBTB quite a bit, not in terms of posts but just general cynicism about them pulling it off. And frankly I am still very cautious about the whole thing, though there are plenty of little, encouraging details.

I won't call for a ban, but I do think bans are legit. Maybe it would make sense, as a suggestion, to put a cap on no. of posts a day. Say you get a dozen. Would at least make you choose a bit more and not end up spamming incessantly. 

[Keegan]

11 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I have maintained for a while now that he has a vastly different understanding of the term "Canadian soccer supporter".   Constantly disparaging CPL, looking at the most negative aspects of announcements, and just generally being a huge douchebag.  I have no idea why people find value in his posts.  Yeah, some of us may be over the top in our responses to him, but I think it is absolutely warranted.  At minimum, a soccer fan with differing views should stay silent.  Actively shitting on CPL is not, to me, an acceptable way for a self-identified V to behave on here.

I’m sorry but this is hilarious. ?  What are we antifa?  It’s a discussion forum.

This place really isn’t bad at all @admin.. it’s one poster people don’t agree with.  He’s not violating forum rules so if people don’t like it they can press the ignore feature.  I think banning someone for holding a negative view is outrageous and would delegitimize this board 1000x more than an opposing view.. 

The guy is a hilarious contradiction, his name is @BringBackTheBlizzard but he wants to douse every bit of optimism for the only league that could realistically “bring back the blizzard”.  Like many of his arguments and legal opinions, a novel individual indeed.  It IS annoying but just ignore him if you can’t take him.

FWIW in my time on this board this is the best it’s ever been.  CPL forum argues because it’s a passionate topic but the MNT board has been exciting and filled with optimism.  There have been dark times - this is the exact opposite.  

Edited February 2, 2019 by Keegan

[BuzzAndSting]

5 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I’m sorry but this is hilarious. ?  What are we antifa?  It’s a discussion forum.

This place really isn’t bad at all @admin.. it’s one poster people don’t agree with.  He’s not violating forum rules so if people don’t like it they can press the ignore feature.  I think banning someone for holding a negative view is outrageous and would delegitimize this board 1000x more than an opposing view.. 

The guy is a hilarious contradiction, his name is @BringBackTheBlizzard but he wants to douse every bit of optimism for the only league that could realistically “bring back the blizzard”.  Like many of his arguments and legal opinions, a novel individual indeed.  

FWIW in my time on this board this is the best it’s ever been.  CPL forum argues because it’s a passionate topic but the MNT board has been exciting and filled with optimism.  There have been dark times - this is the exact opposite.  

I agree but as many will attest we have quality people actively staying away because of the relentless negativity, it’s affecting the quality of discussion.

I don’t agree that a ban is the right course of action but at the same time I feel we should do something to stop from losing more good contributors. 

[Alex D]

 Being constructively critical is fine. Constantly pulling shit out of your ass to paint a far more negative potrait of the actual state of affairs is not. It's wearing. So very wearing. 

[Keegan]

5 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I agree but as many will attest we have quality people actively staying away because of the relentless negativity, it’s affecting the quality of discussion.

I don’t agree that a ban is the right course of action but at the same time I feel we should do something to stop from losing more good contributors. 

Those quality people staying away are obviously forming safe spaces then because as I said, other mediums are A LOT harsher than this. 

Why does negativity bother people so much?  The positivity here outnumbers it 10 to 1.  

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Those quality people staying away are obviously forming safe spaces then because as I said, other mediums are A LOT harsher than this. 

Why does negativity bother people so much?  The positivity here outnumbers it 10 to 1.  

Fair enough but it doesn’t change the reality here. Are we willing to sacrifice those quality people for a poster like BBTB? That’s why it’s difficult, I don’t agree with censorship but many Canadian soccer fans will say it’s not. 

[matty]

46 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Those quality people staying away are obviously forming safe spaces then because as I said, other mediums are A LOT harsher than this. 

Why does negativity bother people so much?  The positivity here outnumbers it 10 to 1.  

i think it's not negativity but spamming in this case. a lot of the bbtb stuff was excessive repeating the same point over and over and over. i think he's been better in the last 6 monthsish (changing up, accessing the info available more) and has been more of a critical thinker rather than repeating the exact same points non-stop.

[Admin]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

 

This place really isn’t bad at all @admin.. it’s one poster people don’t agree with.  He’s not violating forum rules so if people don’t like it they can press the ignore feature.  I think banning someone for holding a negative view is outrageous and would delegitimize this board 1000x more than an opposing view.. 

 

This is pretty much what I have been saying.  I don't think this place is remotely as ad as people claim, especially if those people are using social media which is far far worse.  

It doesn't mean there isn't a problem though. 

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, Keegan said:

I’m sorry but this is hilarious. ?  What are we antifa?  It’s a discussion forum.

This place really isn’t bad at all @admin.. it’s one poster people don’t agree with.  He’s not violating forum rules so if people don’t like it they can press the ignore feature.  I think banning someone for holding a negative view is outrageous and would delegitimize this board 1000x more than an opposing view.. 

The guy is a hilarious contradiction, his name is @BringBackTheBlizzard but he wants to douse every bit of optimism for the only league that could realistically “bring back the blizzard”.  Like many of his arguments and legal opinions, a novel individual indeed.  It IS annoying but just ignore him if you can’t take him.

FWIW in my time on this board this is the best it’s ever been.  CPL forum argues because it’s a passionate topic but the MNT board has been exciting and filled with optimism.  There have been dark times - this is the exact opposite.  

Sorry - consider the bolded portion you quoted one poorly communicated thought.  I don't mean staying silent if you have any sort of dissenting opinion on anything.  I mean staying silent if you are only going to shit on the whole endeavour with negativity.  There are endless examples of this, but two recent ones that jump immediately to mind are referencing the player signings of CPL as basically rummaging through a bargain bin, and questioning why anyone could possibly choose to watch CPL when they could watch Giovinco take a free kick for TFC.  That isn't constructive criticism.  It isn't trying to engage in healthy debate.  And it does nothing to promote the thing which has massive potential to improve the soccer landscape in this country.  It is just shitting on our emerging national footy league - which to me is utterly out of place on a Canadian soccer supporters site.  Full stop.  And that is entirely in line with the tone of posts I have seen from him for months and months now.  

Yes, ignore is a feature.  I use it - but I admit that my curiousity gets the better of me sometimes.  And almost invariably, when I choose to view his posts, I am left wondering why someone so obviously uninterested in supporting and promoting CPL would spend so much time talking about it in such a negative way.  

The fact is that we have confirmation, from multiple sources, that his incessant negativity has significantly impacted this sites ability to be a positive force for promoting CPL.  You can make loaded BS reference to Antifa and safe spaces if you want (you can always throw out the term "snowflake" next time) but this is about one poster having a very real negative impact on the promotion of CPL on this site.  I am a member of multiple forums - astronomy, pellet guns, etc.  This is the only one where this sort of destructive negative activity is allowed to persist.  And while I understand Jamie's rationale, I still fully believe that in this one instance, the principle is not worth the price. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by dyslexic nam

[DontPanic]

Yet again. Maybe if people stayed on topic. Don’t ban for being negative. Just remove posts that are off topic (ironically just like this one)

so frustrating to want to read a topic I’m interested in and see one relevant post then 10 pissing and moaning back and forth posts. 

Also. You don’t have to reply to someone that’s a dick or makes posts that are off topic. 

Self police yourself and reply with on topic posts ffs

7 posts since the last relevant one. 7

 

[Rocket Robin]

Richard Griffin the baseball writer for the Toronto Star is leaving the paper after 25 years. So what? Well Laura Armstrong was the backup for Blue Jays stories and also the main columnist for TFC so I have a feeling she'll move full time into baseball (because they play every day of the week right?).

So will the Star hire a someone for TFC reporting or just use Neil Davidson CP stories? The Star has never had a column about the CPL (except the odd CP story).

The Star and Sun owners pulled off a media deal last year trading local paper properties then shutting down dozens of them so I can't see York area papers covering York 9.

The North York Mirror arrives at my door on Thursday nights with reprinted week old Star stories wrapped around 20-30 store fliers so it won't be considered junk mail. Can't see them providing any coverage.  

[Gopherbashi]

I skipped past page 41 of this topic and at this point I'm too afraid to go back and see what exploded.

[rob.notenboom]

Let me add just a couple of things. I’m trying to choose my words well here as I find the particularity a bit hard to explain. 

1) The people who I’m referring to who are not coming here, were here but have left, or have greatly reduced their interest and contribution are all on other social media sites and often multiple other sites. The ones I know personally number literally in the dozens and others that I’m aware of but don’t really know double or triple that number (that wasn’t the part where I needed to choose my words carefully btw ?).

2) There is a subtle but important difference between other social media spaces and here. Elsewhere a lot of the ‘abuse’ is just stupid ... people who don’t know anything bashing you. It makes it easier to dismiss. But often the criticism here is by people who purport to ‘know’ certain things that clearly they don’t. The issue with this is that it’s particularly exhausting to try and steer a conversation the right way when a critic is so committed to their point in the absence of any real information and while you yourself are actually in possession of said information. And this isn’t an arrogance, it’s just a fact ... many people were ‘in the know’ due to their contact with owners, league officials, journalists, local coaches and the like. 

So a vague hypothetical ... Imagine this is 18 months ago. You happen to know that a certain community is going to have a team. They’ve lined up a very financially secure owner, have some potential technical staff already, and have a stadium solution that has a couple hurdles but that looks promising. A news article comes out that is vague but suggests things might be in motion in your community. You suggest on the board that this is a good sign, but you’re also bound by your relationships and your agreement to keep the info to yourself for the time being. So you can’t come right out and say ‘This is happening, these people are involved, and it will happen in this way.’ The response from most forum commenters to the article and to your comment is ‘That’s exciting ... perhaps there is going to be further good news.’ The reaction from certain individuals is first a purposefully negative reaction taking the necessary vagueness of the article in the worst way, escalating to potential conspiracy theories, and when you try and suggest other things more in line with the reality of the situation, next you get implications that you are just ignorant of reality, stupid, have rose coloured glasses on, that you’re too young to really understand the history of Canadian soccer so really don’t get it, and perhaps you are also a rabid nationalist and this is colouring your view. All this without any hint of a question such as ‘Do you know something more of the situation?’ The underlying assumption in the negative response is ‘I know. You do not. And whatever you say is worthless to me.’ In the meantime the opposite is actually true. 

I’ve watched this scenario play out over and over and over on this board. I’m starting to feel similarly about it as I felt to the whole Rob Ford era ... first things angered me, then I started to think it was hilarious, and finally it was so sad and pathetic I actually pitied him ... similarly here. 

3) Yes sorry. There’s a third point ... I’m going on and on ... 

Many of the people who are no longer here etc etc are committed to doing whatever they can to help the league regardless of whether it ultimately fails or succeeds. They realize that this is an historic chance to make a contribution and that it may never come again in their lifetimes. So they’d rather spend their energy figuring out what best to do and doing it. So discussion that revolves around these kinds of critiques with that purpose in mind (to support the league and try to contribute to its success) and that might produce actionable conclusions are really important. Apologies, but those discussions are fairly rare here. More often they revolve around who is trying to show that they’re more right, and this goes on both with those who are overly critical and overly uncritical. Simply put, there is lack of that kind of purpose to the discussion.

Apologies for the long post, but I thought it was worth saying. I’m honestly not sure what the best way forward is, but one suggestion I have had and have suggested before is to let the forum go on as is but with the understanding that there is a much greater community of Voyageurs and potential Voyageurs out there and to try to connect with them in other ways. 

[Rocket Robin]

CPL Second weekend would be May 3-5th.  

TFC plays in Orlando Saturday the 4th at 4:00pm.  

I expect York 9 will get their first home game that weekend. 

From Thursday pub night with the team I heard their preference is Saturday afternoons but I wonder if they will play a different day or a night game to ensure TV coverage (if any) and the TFC fans watching TSN at home or bars.    

[rob.notenboom]

And as @DontPanic posted above, apologies also for the massive off topic post. ?

[SuperCanuck]

38 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

I skipped past page 41 of this topic and at this point I'm too afraid to go back and see what exploded.

Ditto.  I'm not every venturing to page 41.