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York 9 2019 launch/offseason thread


Rheo
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So let me get this straight...

Close proximity to TFC, making it the most competitive market in the CPL, and the cheapest season seat for an average of around $30 a game, is close to if not more than TFC tickets in certain cases. Add in non-assigned seating, and only a scarf with the purchase of a season seat, this puts York9 in a very bad position. Can't even offer a jersey? Other teams in less competitive (if at all) markets are offering an official kit with the purchase of season's seats. Like CDNFootballer said, the team really needs to add a $299 section in, because they are going to struggle big time. Already had a feeling York9 would be the likely candidate for a team to possibly fold in this league, and this reaffirmed that feeling.

Edited by tyler453
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Yeah, I'm guessing that I've lost my $50.  Unless they call those who signed up to offer a better deal, I'm just going to reallocate my money into the seat relocation at TFC. 

I'm not a person who's going to hang out in the supporters section full time and wouldn't want to be a tourist there.  And I doubt I'll be paying $400 per seat for an unreserved bleacher seat.

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I went for the $200 ticket in the supporters section.  It's a shame about pricing because I was ready to spend 600 or maybe 700 for a pair in a grandstand, but not with whats on offer today.

Not really excited but wife isn't up for going to so many games so if she wants to come we'll just buy some singles in the grandstand?  I guess.

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When you compare this to the progress being made by Hamilton it looks bad.. real bad.

Brennan seems to think co-founder membership numbers don’t matter.  So where are these fans coming from?  Because I’ll tell you right now, business and corporate types are going to TFC games.  Once you build a fan base then you can attract corporate types.. that doesn’t work the other way around. 

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14 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I'm sure you'll let us know what they said.

 

I can't wait for the super-aggressive response that everyone else seems to be getting about "what did I expect to pay for "PRO" soccer in this market?" (hmm - a lot less than TFC or at least the option of a $20 SEAT for what is clearly going to be VERY minor league soccer), or that "they have higher expenses than other teams so I should expect to pay for them" (hmmm - why is that my responsibility?), or that "TFC seats in the middle are much more expensive" (than my Y9 unreserved seat that may or may not be in the middle.....ha ha ha).......it should be a treat.....

In all seriousness though --- the sad part is there are people including myself who genuinely wanted this to succeed and support this product and the fact that these are the responses that they are getting from the "engaged CPL fan" (ie. the majority of people saying they would not buy seasons tickets outside of the $199 price point) is very telling.....when "pulling a York 9" has already become a saying for doing things poorly among some CPL fans, that's a pretty damning statement about this launch.....

Edited by Team Canada
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On 10/27/2018 at 4:51 PM, Club Linesman said:

I truly hope I am wrong and will go to support Canadian soccer, but really think York9 may be in trouble with in a few years.

 

On 10/27/2018 at 5:43 PM, nolando said:

They may be in trouble in mere months at this rate.

They're in trouble now. Obviously Jim Brennan learned nothing from the tire fire that was TFC circa 2007-2012. York 9 isn't going to last to the end of the season. 

For comparison, here's the Fury ticket pricing:

Red center section: Adult - $541.50; Youth - $437

Grey Sidelines: Adult - $437; Youth - $327.75

Black Corners: Adult - $304; Youth - $228

Supporters section isn't listed, but it is probably the only section where the prices are comparable to the Fury.

They had better put together teams that can beat the Fury at this rate, or else spectators are going to start feeling gouged. I'm feeling hopeful for all the other clubs, but every time I hear something York 9 is doing, my stomach churns.

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25 minutes ago, Initial B said:

 

They're in trouble now. Obviously Jim Brennan learned nothing from the tire fire that was TFC circa 2007-2012. York 9 isn't going to last to the end of the season. 

For comparison, here's the Fury ticket pricing:

Red center section: Adult - $541.50; Youth - $437

Grey Sidelines: Adult - $437; Youth - $327.75

Black Corners: Adult - $304; Youth - $228

Supporters section isn't listed, but it is probably the only section where the prices are comparable to the Fury.

They had better put together teams that can beat the Fury at this rate, or else spectators are going to start feeling gouged. I'm feeling hopeful for all the other clubs, but every time I hear something York 9 is doing, my stomach churns.

That actually makes me think that York 9’s pricing isn’t that outrageous after all! Ottawa is more expensive, and it’s in... USL?! Seems to me that every CPL club should be able to charge more than a USL club. 

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I received responses to my queries from the team --- I will give credit that the responses were polite (and not "aggressive" or "condescending" as others say they received when they asked questions about pricing) - at the end of the day, I will be receiving my $50 deposit back as there were no ticket options that made sense for me at this time - I believed the tickets were over-priced for the level of product that they are selling, and also lacked variability along the sidelines in terms of having some lower price-points closer to the ends and corners in the seated areas, and the lack of youth pricing also was a problem for me - the team said they were satisfied with their pricing model and have received positive feedback on it -- I wished them well and that was that.....

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I think this is reality of when you have some owners saying they're building for the long term and prepared to endure losses vs the reality of when the bills start to come due and they're actually faced with losses.  I don't begrudge owners trying to limit how much they lose and thank anyone willing to invest the time, effort and money in to trying to build the league, but this move very much seems like a "short-term" move instead of a long-term one capable of actually building something.

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2 hours ago, Team Canada said:

I received responses to my queries from the team --- I will give credit that the responses were polite (and not "aggressive" or "condescending" as others say they received when they asked questions about pricing) - at the end of the day, I will be receiving my $50 deposit back as there were no ticket options that made sense for me at this time - I believed the tickets were over-priced for the level of product that they are selling, and also lacked variability along the sidelines in terms of having some lower price-points closer to the ends and corners in the seated areas, and the lack of youth pricing also was a problem for me - the team said they were satisfied with their pricing model and have received positive feedback on it -- I wished them well and that was that.....

Have they looked at other team's pricing models? Costs less in a less competitive market for an actual assigned seat that you want to sit in for 15 games, not a free for all for the best seat in the grandstand (unless you want to pay $500 for a club seat). 

I mean, I can't say I would've expected them to say anything different, but come on. You don't even get an official kit...

Edited by tyler453
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These York 9 prices are disappointing, especially when compared to what we've seen from Forge, HFX, Valour, and now FCEd. The jersey issue aside (I look at that as a bonus for SSH), the Y9 prices are simply too high. The supporters' section seats are affordably priced, but all other SSH will be paying $27/game bare-minimum, and that doesn't include HST and other fees. In my opinion, this price point is what single-game tickets should cost.

With so many teams playing across a plethora of sports in the GTA, Y9 need to be more competitively priced in this marketplace. I would imagine that a price of $30-35 after taxes and fees for a single-game ticket would be reasonable, and in line with what teams such as the Toronto Wolfpack are charging.

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6 hours ago, tyler453 said:

Have they looked at other team's pricing models? Costs less in a less competitive market for an actual assigned seat that you want to sit in for 15 games, not a free for all for the best seat in the grandstand (unless you want to pay $500 for a club seat). 

I mean, I can't say I would've expected them to say anything different, but come on. You don't even get an official kit...

I said the same things to them and while I didn't expect a different response, the fact that they are getting quite a negative public reaction from many who signed up with deposits already, should at least be a warning sign that maybe they have misread their market. I would bet that the majority of tickets that will be sold, will be at a much lower rate to groups/soccer clubs (or "funneled" to discount sites like groupon and such) than what is being put out there to the public at large, as the season ticket prices we are all seeing simply seem ludicrous based on the demand in the marketplace for minor league soccer --- ie. my hunch is that they sell 500-1000 tickets (or more?) to local soccer clubs (work out some sort of partnership agreement behind the scenes), at $10-$15 a ticket to at least "goose" the numbers a little bit and have people in the stands when this thing starts. I just don't think a ton of $30+per ticket (and up?!) memberships will be sold as season tickets --- obviously I would bet it would never be made public as that would undermine their pricing model to the public at large....TFC does this where some STH pay way less (like 1/2 in some cases - I know as I am one of them) for their season tickets than others who are literally sitting beside them in the same section and row (I asked my "seat neighbours" last year what they paid for their ST and it was almost double what I paid) but go to their website and look up the prices and they are listed as way, way more than what I am paying (and they are constantly contacting me to buy more at my lower rate -- which means they clearly aren't selling at the higher rates listed), or how Leafs tickets in the Purples still only cost about $60 or so to a STH (and that's with a relatively big increase over the last 10 years) and yet cost way more when sold at TM for "face value" (and that was before dynamic pricing took effect in the last few years) - or how lots of Raptors tickets in the Lower Bowl are tied to Leafs tickets to ensure that they get sold as well (especially when the team was struggling)....the point is many people will probably be paying way less than the posted ST rates; we just may not know about it --- I simply can't think of another way that they will have 1000's of people in the stands for these games next April --- I bet if you ask around the stadium next April what people paid for their tickets - the answer will not be $30 and up per ticket, it might be an interesting little experiment to try next year......

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I was going through other threads and I found that Forge has a smart approach to their price points.

Net                                                          Net

  259     339   419  489   419   339   199

Their most expensive seat comes in under what York 9 are asking for their lowest non GA tickets.  The fact they are claiming to be competitive in terms of pricing with a straight face when compared to others is a little disheartening.  I can't help but feel that they may have a certain amount of arrogance from management.  I think they might have taken for granted the actual demand and underestimated the work that would be needed.  Especially considering there was no "real local existing supporters group."   I keep getting the feeling that Brennan is assuming that people will turn up en masse simply because he is the coach.  He is going to be very disappointed. 

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3 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

I said the same things to them and while I didn't expect a different response, the fact that they are getting quite a negative public reaction from many who signed up with deposits already, should at least be a warning sign that maybe they have misread their market. I would bet that the majority of tickets that will be sold, will be at a much lower rate to groups/soccer clubs (or "funneled" to discount sites like groupon and such) than what is being put out there to the public at large, as the season ticket prices we are all seeing simply seem ludicrous based on the demand in the marketplace for minor league soccer --- ie. my hunch is that they sell 500-1000 tickets (or more?) to local soccer clubs (work out some sort of partnership agreement behind the scenes), at $10-$15 a ticket to at least "goose" the numbers a little bit and have people in the stands when this thing starts. I just don't think a ton of $30+per ticket (and up?!) memberships will be sold as season tickets --- obviously I would bet it would never be made public as that would undermine their pricing model to the public at large....TFC does this where some STH pay way less (like 1/2 in some cases - I know as I am one of them) for their season tickets than others who are literally sitting beside them in the same section and row (I asked my "seat neighbours" last year what they paid for their ST and it was almost double what I paid) but go to their website and look up the prices and they are listed as way, way more than what I am paying (and they are constantly contacting me to buy more at my lower rate -- which means they clearly aren't selling at the higher rates listed), or how Leafs tickets in the Purples still only cost about $60 or so to a STH (and that's with a relatively big increase over the last 10 years) and yet cost way more when sold at TM for "face value" (and that was before dynamic pricing took effect in the last few years) - or how lots of Raptors tickets in the Lower Bowl are tied to Leafs tickets to ensure that they get sold as well (especially when the team was struggling)....the point is many people will probably be paying way less than the posted ST rates; we just may not know about it --- I simply can't think of another way that they will have 1000's of people in the stands for these games next April --- I bet if you ask around the stadium next April what people paid for their tickets - the answer will not be $30 and up per ticket, it might be an interesting little experiment to try next year......

Don't forget the roll back in STH pricing in 2012 of 2013 (I forget which year).  That helped with the legacy pricing.  I can't help but fee that it will be a depressing site in the stands as compared to other venues come April

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I agree that York 9’s pricing leaves a very large gap that may have been wise of them to fill. $199 to $399 is a very large jump and a $299 option would at least give people a less expensive sideline seat.

But perhaps FCE’s pricing release yesterday is an indicator that most of the smaller stadiums are going to structure their tickets similarly to York’s. FCE’s supporter’s section tickets are $249 while their least expensive sideline tickets are $375, very comparable to York’s. Halifax certainly has some cheaper options. But if Cavalry and Vic come out with similar prices to York, suddenly Halifax will seem very much like an outlier. 

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I was told a similar to you guys.  Early demand suggests the Club/Club Plus is going fast etc.

York Region has cash and maybe the general public isn't so against at these prices.  Maybe to everyone else here paying $200 per game for the odd Leafs ticket is normal and these look like a steal.

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I wish I had a team in my area. But for me a couple of hundred dollars a year (up or down) won't change my life (as I'm sure for most of us here too). The only thing that I would be upset with is if you were not assigned a seat as someone here mentioned.

Edited by MtlMario
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24 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

I agree that York 9’s pricing leaves a very large gap that may have been wise of them to fill. $199 to $399 is a very large jump and a $299 option would at least give people a less expensive sideline seat.

But perhaps FCE’s pricing release yesterday is an indicator that most of the smaller stadiums are going to structure their tickets similarly to York’s. FCE’s supporter’s section tickets are $249 while their least expensive sideline tickets are $375, very comparable to York’s. Halifax certainly has some cheaper options. But if Cavalry and Vic come out with similar prices to York, suddenly Halifax will seem very much like an outlier. 

You may be right but there is a direct competitor here in the GTA that has a significant portion of the "soccer ticket buyers" already locked up and is there to be seen as a comparison to the average customer (and some at quite reasonable prices with legacy pricing and such - or high end corporate customers with swanky BMO Field perks for the corporate set who are targeted by MLSE's massive marketing advantage and financial backing)....come and watch Giovinco (or Zlatan/Almiron/Villa, etc.) vs. come and watch who? One of these teams is clearly going to be seen as "minor league" - whereas in other markets CPL will be seen as a "big deal"....

By comparison, I lived in Halifax for a number of years --- the Mooseheads were a huge deal (CHL level of hockey) and I went to a lot of their games as I am a hockey fan --- obviously having no "better league" around to go and watch hockey, made a big difference compared to living in the GTA where Oshawa and Mississauga and other GTA teams (OHL level) in the past have struggled....even University level football had a good following at a place like St. Mary's because again your entertainment options are limited --- how many attendees are there for York U and UofT football games in the GTA? outside of friends and family almost none (UofT actually won the Vanier Cup at Skydome in the early 90's - I was there --- it was one of the lowest attended games ever sadly -- so even when they were actually "good" they didn't matter to the average sports fan here)  - ---- simply put the GTA has a "big city"/"world class" mentality when it comes to entertainment - they will pay if they perceive it to be the best or it is some type of "status" symbol to have tickets to a particular event - other than that, it's simply a really tough sell in this market for what it is perceived to be minor league entertainment and it always has been....

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15 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I wish I had a team in my area. But for me a couple of hundred dollars a year won't change my life (as I'm sure for most of us here too). The only thing that I would be upset with is if you were not assigned a seat as someone here mentioned.

I admit that the couple of hundred dollars won't change my life and I am fortunate in that regard - my issue with Y9 is that no one wants to feel like a "sucker" and customers are getting smarter in understanding the value of the tickets they are buying more than ever --- how many $6 stubhub seats (works out to about $13Canadian all in with fees) does one have to see online before one feels stupid about buying Jays tickets for $30 plus in the 500Level from the box office (I know I won't make that mistake again this year) - 900,000 less seats were sold last year to the Jays --- they will sell less this year too as they have not changed their pricing structure to reflect the lower demand for their product.....people are getting smarter about their spending habits in this regard because frankly while there are a lot of wealthy people in the GTA, the middle class is eroding and having a family and living in the suburbs is way more expensive than ever and that is Y9's target market - suburban families (houses have went up 3-4X on my street in the last decade --- incomes have not gone up at anywhere near the same rate unfortunately)........

I had Argos tickets the last few years (and have had in the past at various points) and frankly I felt that I was basically donating money to support Canadian Football (they should have sent me a tax receipt - ha ha ha) - the tickets had zero value and that was at $20 or so a seat (and that was a rolled back price in 2018 from even dumber prices in 2017) --- and once they started under-cutting ST prices through groupon and the like (I could buy a seat better than mine for $12-$15 through various promotions that the team themselves would email me?! how insane is that? why would I possibly buy seasons tickets again?) --- doesn't the CPL sound a little CFL like in that we should all just be spending our money (who cares about value) to "donate" to the idea of Canadian Soccer --- ummm, nice idea, but how has that model worked out for the Argos over the years.....if I know I can buy tickets for significantly less when the event occurs (and you will), and there is no built up demand for me to offset my costs for games I can't go to (most people aren't attending every game) - it's simply a poor investment, and no one I know likes to waste money, no matter whether they can afford it or not.....

TFC rolling back prices was the smartest thing they ever did --- I know that I probably would have left as a STH had they not done so as my reserved tickets (light greys) would  not have had the same value at twice the price  (mine went down about 1/2)....the fact that even after winning a lot in 2016-2017 that my tickets only went up fractionally (from about $18 or so a ticket to about $21 or so a ticket in the last 3 years) means I will keep those seats as I feel that MLSE didn't gouge me when they clearly "could have" as the popularity and success and demand was there --- even if they went to about $25 I would stay even after this crappy year as they have built up my loyalty to the brand by respecting me as a customer over the years -- if they got closer to $30 I would probably seriously consider dropping them unless I saw a value in them at that time.....everything has a value price point for people --- I simply think in the GTA for minor league soccer and with an unreserved seat (?!) that their price points are ridiculous -- I've heard people were told derisively to "come early" to get a better seat; not everyone has hours to spend before the game to sit in an empty stadium so that they can get a better seat -- some people are elderly or have kids and that is simply not feasible.....

I had four TFC season seats last year and was going to go down to two, to buy two Y9 season tickets to support that endeavour --- TFC has reached out to me asking what could they do to bring me back this week (bending over backwards trying to keep me) --- apparently all it took was Y9 fumbling their pitch to make me go back to TFC with my money.....I'm a big believer that you only have one chance to make a good first impression and Y9 in my opinion clearly has not made one in mine and a lot of other people's eyes.....

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Great post, you’re exactly right.  This pricing scheme is a big fail and there is zero reason to think otherwise.  It’s overpriced relative to CPL but more importantly relative to other sporting options in the GTA. Oh, and they have done nothing to build a loyal following... teams like Halifax, Hamilton and Winnipeg could probably get away with that but not the least marketed/supported team in a questionable region.

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