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I had to watch the match without sound and commentary.   Any idea why Mavinga was subbed out?  Obviously an injury but any comment from the announcers?  He might have been MOTM up until that point.  

Defensively the team was weaker after he came off. .

Edited by Free kick

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28 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I had to watch the match without sound and commentary.   Any idea why Mavinga was subbed out?  Obviously an injury but any comment from the announcers?  He might have been MOTM up until that point.  

Defensively the team was weaker after he came off. .

Injury - he was done a few minutes earlier and whatever it was, he was unable to continue. Post-Match Vanney confirmed that he made two substitutions he didn't want to because of injury.

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15 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Thx 

With every outing, i am think Auro Jr looks more and more like the best pick up of the off season.  He is confident when he has the ball.

That play he made to not touch the ball with his arms in the penalty area is one of the most incredible plays I've never seen.

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Looks like the balance of power is shifting a bit between MLS and Liga MX, which is great to see. The TAM signings take away the weak links in MLS roster filler terms (Ashtone Morgan would be a prime example for TFC) that Mexican teams used to be able to exploit. Osorio shows that if you are good enough you still get selected and the key in future will be having more players coming through from the Academy system that are good enough.

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That match was heart pounding! Feel as though expectations for Bradley are so high that when he performs well it doesn't get praise - he was really composed with the ball at his feet in our defensive third and really did well to releive pressure on the backline. Osorio was solid and should be a starter every week - his vision and trickery are really developing - that pass to Gio on the own goal was quality and he had another through ball into Morrow (turned out it was offside) that was impressive as well. Echo Free Kick's comment on Auro Jr. - he was extremely impressive going forward and defending - shut down Damm really well! Giovinco is Giovinco. 

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7 hours ago, Free kick said:

Thx 

With every outing, i am think Auro Jr looks more and more like the best pick up of the off season.  He is confident when he has the ball. 

 

 

He's talented no doubt; but I think at times he holds onto the ball to long.

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3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like the balance of power is shifting a bit between MLS and Liga MX, which is great to see. The TAM signings take away the weak links in MLS roster filler terms (Ashtone Morgan would be a prime example for TFC) that Mexican teams used to be able to exploit. Osorio shows that if you are good enough you still get selected and the key in future will be having more players coming through from the Academy system that are good enough.

Don't jump the gun. If Chivas beats Seattle then it sets up both semi-final games as Liga MX vs MLS teams. If both Liga MX teams win those match-ups then very little has changed. Maybe MLS has proven that they can beat Mexican teams over two legs, but maybe not yet a power shift.

Edited by Ruffian

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Mavinga has a groin injury according to TSN.  I agree with the Auro comments.  So far, he has been better than Van der Wiel and Aketxe (from the little we have seen from him).  Just me or was Delgado freaking terrible!  Gave the ball away every time he had it!  I think Giovinco didn't like hearing the Gignac was "the best player in the CONCACAF" comments.  : ) 

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1 hour ago, Ivan said:

Mavinga has a groin injury according to TSN.  I agree with the Auro comments.  So far, he has been better than Van der Wiel and Aketxe (from the little we have seen from him).  Just me or was Delgado freaking terrible!  Gave the ball away every time he had it!  I think Giovinco didn't like hearing the Gignac was "the best player in the CONCACAF" comments.  : ) 

Have to agree with you about Delgado. He is good defensively, but as soon there is pressure on him when he has possession he seems to panic and loses the ball. Looks like Tigres figured it out and were constantly on top of him when he got the ball.

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2 hours ago, HfxCeltic said:

That match was heart pounding! Feel as though expectations for Bradley are so high that when he performs well it doesn't get praise - he was really composed with the ball at his feet in our defensive third and really did well to releive pressure on the backline. Osorio was solid and should be a starter every week - his vision and trickery are really developing - that pass to Gio on the own goal was quality and he had another through ball into Morrow (turned out it was offside) that was impressive as well. Echo Free Kick's comment on Auro Jr. - he was extremely impressive going forward and defending - shut down Damm really well! Giovinco is Giovinco. 

Bradley is basically the best player for TFC every game, you are right that it's only his occasional mistakes that get highlighted because his average level is so high. His usage rate is insane and he is given huge responsibility at the base of the diamond.

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Gregory Vanderwiel shut down Aquino over 2 legs. I think that deserves much more praise than what Auro jr did. Aquino is an absolutely amazing one on one player, I have never seen a match where he was defended so well. Maybe the only other match was when Mexico played Germany.

Don’t get me wrong, Auro is great. But Vanderwiel is the whole package. He can dominate physically, offensively, and defensively. He just needs to dial in his crosses a bit. Other than that, he is great.

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12 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Gregory Vanderwiel shut down Aquino over 2 legs. I think that deserves much more praise than what Auro jr did. Aquino is an absolutely amazing one on one player, I have never seen a match where he was defended so well. Maybe the only other match was when Mexico played Germany.

Don’t get me wrong, Auro is great. But Vanderwiel is the whole package. He can dominate physically, offensively, and defensively. He just needs to dial in his crosses a bit. Other than that, he is great.

I guess he can (or has in the past) but we havnt seen much of that so far.  Auro was also playing on the wrong wing wasnt he?  I know they say he can play both but his natural spot is RB.  He did pretty good and is only 22, I'm more excited about him than the other 2 additions.  But in the game I watched alot of pressure was coming on the right side and VDW was having a tough time,  Although it might have been that Delgado kept coughing up the ball and VDW had to try and clean that up all night.  

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1 hour ago, to70 said:

Have to agree with you about Delgado. He is good defensively, but as soon there is pressure on him when he has possession he seems to panic and loses the ball. Looks like Tigres figured it out and were constantly on top of him when he got the ball.

After he was taken off though it did seem like Tigres were able to put more pressure on TFC - may be a coincidence because the team was tiring overall but also may be that Delgado tends to cover more ground than Vazquez does. He certainly doesn't have the passing skills that Vazquez does or the dribbling skills that Osorio possesses that can get both players out of trouble more than Delgado does when they swarm him the way they did.

According to the Concacaf stats Delgado only have three unsuccessful passes the whole night (out of 31 attempted), but my guess is that these stats don't include giving up the ball from being dispossessed of it, which is what I noticed more. (The top players in terms of pass incompletions for TFC were Bradley & Van Der Wiel with 7 apiece although Javier Aquino topped them all with 17 unsuccessful passes. Top pass completer on the night was our own Jonathan Osorio with 10 more than anyone else on the field (49 successful passes to just 4 unsuccessful).

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Morrow has a calf injury, Mavinga is groin. Hasn't been said how long they will be out for but Mavinga's loss would be the more concerning one in terms of players absences. Auro Jr. was arguably an upgrade on Morrow last night and they've still got Hasler and Morgan as depth for the right and the left behind Auro Jr. & Van Der Wiel. I know they were talking about moving Hasler into the middle but they have also got Aketxe and Chapman that they haven't used in the last two games at all, while Vazquez hasn't started the last two games, so they can afford to move Hasler to the right. Whereas they only have 4 CB's signed right now which makes things tight if they want to play 3 in the back with one currently injured.

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My two cents:

- felt that this game was pretty identical to the TFC home game with the home team carrying most of the play, with the exception being that TFC was able to sneak 2 goals against the run of play as opposed to 1 by Tigres.
- if the game had lasted another 10 minutes, I think TFC could have been in serious trouble
- felt the TFC mids coughed up the ball a lot more than they normally do.
- thought the central defense was weaker once Mavinga limped off.  Both Zavaletta and Haglund are not as consistent as Moor and Mavinga, nor do they have the same vision for the pass.
- Tigres has to be upset with their keeper.  I felt both the Osorio goal in the first game and Giovinco's goal in the second were stopable.  Both seemed to handcuff the keeper.

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Huge result for TFC in a tough environment and against a team that is, to the man, technically superior.

Seba was the difference-maker, though one cannot ignore TFC's strong team performance over two legs.  Mavinga was a beast last night.  He is only getting stronger. TFC's center backs are journeymen at best--excepting Mavinga-- and yet they find a way to win. Without Mavinga the backline was far more vulnerable. Losing Morrow did not help either.

Very impressed with Osorio. I know it is early days yet, but he is looking a notch better than Delgado this year, perhaps even better. (I understand why Vanney put Vazquez in for Delgado last night, but I would have wanted somebody whose defensive work rate was a tad higher than Vazquez's. Delgado did not have a great night with the ball at his feet, but he did cover a lot of space coming back.)

MLS is certainly closing the gap on Liga MX. Out of curiosity, how does the Tigres payroll compare to that of TFC? I believe it is significantly higher, no?

Let's hope Mavinga and Morrow are healthy for Club America in April!

 

Edited by The Beaver

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4 hours ago, The Beaver said:

(I understand why Vanney put Vazquez in for Delgado last night, but I would have wanted somebody whose defensive work rate was a tad higher than Vazquez's. Delgado did not have a great night with the ball at his feet, but he did cover a lot of space coming back.)

I usually defend Delgado on here but I really felt he was out of his league against this class of opponent tonight.  It's absolutely crucial that your mids taking avantage of the inevitably fewer times they have the ball to control possession and take the sting out the game against such an opponent at their place.   Bad giveaways (rushed, inaccurate passes and failing to shield the ball effectively 1 v 1) really stood out in his play.  When you keep the ball you lessen your energy sapping defensive recovery running.

I wonder if the club is planning on picking up a more bona fide defensive holding mid to provide cover for Bradley and also to help lock down a lead.  Delgado is more of a box to box shuttler with clear limits to his game, while guys like Hasler a flank type mids.

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2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I usually defend Delgado on here but I really felt he was out of his league against this class of opponent tonight.  It's absolutely crucial that your mids taking avantage of the inevitably fewer times they have the ball to control possession and take the sting out the game against such an opponent at their place.   Bad giveaways (rushed, inaccurate passes and failing to shield the ball effectively 1 v 1) really stood out in his play.  When you keep the ball you lessen your energy sapping defensive recovery running.

I wonder if the club is planning on picking up a more bona fide defensive holding mid to provide cover for Bradley and also to help lock down a lead.  Delgado is more of a box to box shuttler with clear limits to his game, while guys like Hasler a flank type mids.

What helped Delgado have such a good season last year was his ability to move the ball quickly, almost exclusively through one- or two-touch passing.  But a team like Tigres closes down fast on you, and they are smart about blocking passing lanes, which forces players to actually take a few more touches and, as you point out, shield the ball BEFORE finding an open player. This part of the game is underdeveloped in Delgado. Osorio, however, showed some good presence with the ball at his feet, laid off a brilliant pass to Seba that resulted in the own goal, and had some nice moments in possession.  Oso has done a lot in just a few games to give Vanney good reason to keep him in the starting 11. 

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1 hour ago, The Beaver said:

What helped Delgado have such a good season last year was his ability to move the ball quickly, almost exclusively through one- or two-touch passing.  But a team like Tigres closes down fast on you, and they are smart about blocking passing lanes, which forces players to actually take a few more touches and, as you point out, shield the ball BEFORE finding an open player. This part of the game is underdeveloped in Delgado. Osorio, however, showed some good presence with the ball at his feet, laid off a brilliant pass to Seba that resulted in the own goal, and had some nice moments in possession.  Oso has done a lot in just a few games to give Vanney good reason to keep him in the starting 11. 

They were a different class than what you get week in and week out in MLS. 

Osorio's moving the ball much quicker than he ever has.  One of his chronic problems was holding it a little too long and then getting outmuscled while shielding, going to ground and looking for foul but not getting it.  Now, those areas of his game have improved, so I hope he keeps it going.

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Delgado was good in the first leg, I wouldn't get too down on him yet. The CBs are a bigger concern. I don't think Zavaleta is good enough to be starter even in MLS (look at his passing numbers over his career) while Moor is past his best. I still like Hagglund and Mavinga looks good this year (hopefully it lasts) but they will have to make a move this year. 

Tigres clearly were not levels ahead of TFC, to my eyes. Better overall, yes, but not by an order of magnitude and I would have taken several players from TFC over their Tigres equivalents given how they played over the two games.

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