TFC 2018

[Gian-Luca]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

-It was a bad karma game, the early red included.

The "bad karma" refers to what will stem from this game (ie. being emotionally deflating for the team), hence why the comment was followed by this "not setting them up well for Wedneday's game" - rather than the events being a result of bad karma as you imply. No-one was suggesting that Altidore's red (which I called "stupid" from the get-go) was as a result of some voodoo curse placed upon him by a Haitian witch doctor, if that's what you were getting at.

I mean if you are going to troll, at least do it right. It's just common trolling courtesy.

[Keegan]

It happened right in front of me and I said red right away.  No surprise that Altidore is a low IQ guy - just keeping up his reputation.  What an absolute clown to ruin a MASSIVE match because you’re a whiny buffoon... if we ever play the USA with altidore I hope our defenders badger him early and often because he clearly can’t take it.  

Part of it is ego which is hilarious when you consider he was (and still is) the biggest laughing stock in England. He made Heskey look like Lukaku. 

[Keegan]

That second goal was brutal.. Bono has to be much better. 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Keegan said:

That second goal was brutal.. Bono has to be much better. 

Bono has made one too many mistakes that cost the team points this season.

They need to seriously upgrade at keeper.

[michaeltfc91]

I'm honestly really surprised people think that's a red card. He's a little frustrated and kicks out at a player, but no attempt to injure, nothing to the face area, no goal scoring chance, no studs up, wasn't 2 footed. A normal referee sees 2 players getting frustrated, he blows his whistle and gives them a talking to, probably a yellow for Jozy since it was a bad reaction. How you ruin a big game in the 8th minute for something like that is beyond me... This is a men's professional sport similar to hockey, football, rugby I don't understand these light red cards.

One kick like that = an automatic loss? Doesn't seem right at all

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, michaeltfc91 said:

I'm honestly really surprised people think that's a red card. He's a little frustrated and kicks out at a player, but no attempt to injure, nothing to the face area, no goal scoring chance, no studs up, wasn't 2 footed. A normal referee sees 2 players getting frustrated, he blows his whistle and gives them a talking to, probably a yellow for Jozy since it was a bad reaction. How you ruin a big game in the 8th minute for something like that is beyond me... This is a men's professional sport similar to hockey, football, rugby I don't understand these light red cards.

One kick like that = an automatic loss? Doesn't seem right at all

That's all well and good but Altidore never had to put himself in that situation in the first place. That's the point.

[gator]

2 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said:

I'm honestly really surprised people think that's a red card. He's a little frustrated and kicks out at a player, but no attempt to injure, nothing to the face area, no goal scoring chance, no studs up, wasn't 2 footed. A normal referee sees 2 players getting frustrated, he blows his whistle and gives them a talking to, probably a yellow for Jozy since it was a bad reaction. How you ruin a big game in the 8th minute for something like that is beyond me... This is a men's professional sport similar to hockey, football, rugby I don't understand these light red cards.

One kick like that = an automatic loss? Doesn't seem right at all

I'm repeating myself here but it is a red everyday of the week, even if you don't make contact it is violent conduct which means a Red Card, even Bradley admits it was, the ref didn't ruin the match, Jozy did!

[Keegan]

7 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said:

I'm honestly really surprised people think that's a red card. He's a little frustrated and kicks out at a player, but no attempt to injure, nothing to the face area, no goal scoring chance, no studs up, wasn't 2 footed. A normal referee sees 2 players getting frustrated, he blows his whistle and gives them a talking to, probably a yellow for Jozy since it was a bad reaction. How you ruin a big game in the 8th minute for something like that is beyond me... This is a men's professional sport similar to hockey, football, rugby I don't understand these light red cards.

One kick like that = an automatic loss? Doesn't seem right at all

How is it not an attempt to injure if you kick someone?  What was he trying to do? 

You mention hockey, football, rugby.. well guess what?  Kick someone in any of those sports in the world and you’re gone - and suspended for multiple games.  If he just shoved the guy there would be a talking to and no sending off but he kicked him.. just because it’s a sport with the feet doesn’t mean you can just kick a guy when the ball is out of play.

[Keegan]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Bono has made one too many mistakes that cost the team points this season.

They need to seriously upgrade at keeper.

Morrow, Bono and Delgado all got their USMNT calls and haven’t been the same since.

[Gian-Luca]

8 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said:

I'm honestly really surprised people think that's a red card. He's a little frustrated and kicks out at a player, but no attempt to injure, nothing to the face area, no goal scoring chance, no studs up, wasn't 2 footed. A normal referee sees 2 players getting frustrated, he blows his whistle and gives them a talking to, probably a yellow for Jozy since it was a bad reaction. How you ruin a big game in the 8th minute for something like that is beyond me... This is a men's professional sport similar to hockey, football, rugby I don't understand these light red cards.

One kick like that = an automatic loss? Doesn't seem right at all

Its off the ball and petulant though - it's not even a late tackle, just a lashing out at an opponent with ones foot. And its done right in front of the linesman to add to the stupidity.

[mpg_29]

Jozy isn't worth it overall imo. Between injuries, getting sick during games (which has happened more than once) and red cards (also happened more than once iirc) he is not reliable enough. Not within the context of being a DP in MLS at least.

[Gian-Luca]

Incidentally I'm not sure if Hamilton will be fit to replace Altidore next weekend. He played in the TFC2 game which followed at BMO field and scored the winner on a great pass from Liam Fraser but then later in the 2nd half he was scythed down very brutally by Mallan Roberts who somehow didn't see a  2nd yellow (this was worthy of a straight red), lay on the pitch for some time, did return to the game and then had to be subbed off a few minutes later. Perhaps the new Argentinian signing will start up front next weekend.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Morrow, Bono and Delgado all got their USMNT calls and haven’t been the same since.

That is true. I don't know how much of it is related to breaking into the USMNT pool though. 

Either way, Bono has been extremely disappointing for me. Giving away points with school boy errors. He comes up with big saves from time to time but his mistakes undo all of that good, at least for me.

I would love to see Borjan replace him.

Delgado has been really poor this season but I think his performances are getting a little better. Compared to Osorio, he is limited with the ball at his feet. If his passing is not as sharp, which happens, his game really suffers. At least Osorio has the footwork to wiggle free. Delgado doesn't seem to have that.

Morrow is just not as good as last year when he was outstanding. He is still decent though in my opinion, unlike the aforementioned Bono and Delgado.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Jozy isn't worth it overall imo. Between injuries, getting sick during games (which has happened more than once) and red cards (also happened more than once iirc) he is not reliable enough. Not within the context of being a DP in MLS at least.

I think Altidore is rightly a DP in MLS, despite all the stuff you just mentioned.

When he is focused and fit he is incredible, at least for TFC.

I think him and Bradley, and probably Giovinco are all overpaid, but I would not break up that core. It is the foundation of the team.

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Incidentally I'm not sure if Hamilton will be fit to replace Altidore next weekend. He played in the TFC2 game which followed at BMO field and scored the winner on a great pass from Liam Fraser but then later in the 2nd half he was scythed down very brutally by Mallan Roberts who somehow didn't see a  2nd yellow (this was worthy of a straight red), lay on the pitch for some time, did return to the game and then had to be subbed off a few minutes later. Perhaps the new Argentinian signing will start up front next weekend.

Hopefully his visa is sorted in time.

[Gian-Luca]

36 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think him and Bradley, and probably Giovinco are all overpaid, but I would not break up that core. It is the foundation of the team.

Of the three, it's Bradley's deterioration which is the most concerning for me. I mean, he had one of his better games of the season yesterday and I felt really stepped up along with Giovinco & Vazquez. Yet the gaps in his game are both growing and glaring. Its been nearly two years since he scored for the club (November 2016) which, not counting the keepers, is the longest goal drought on the team. His shots from distance are horrifically bad and he often now passes up great scoring opportunities from distance because he knows he can't seem to get the ball even remotely close to the net anymore. His long-range passing has also deteriorated - he now only occasionally hits an accurate long-range pass, rather than regularly doing it, most of the time the passes are over hit (as are most of his free kicks when he takes them). And he's also lost a step in terms of his speed. Long term, it's got to be a concern and I think Fraser needs to start deputizing for him more often sooner rather than later.

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Of the three, it's Bradley's deterioration which is the most concerning for me. I mean, he had one of his better games of the season yesterday and I felt really stepped up along with Giovinco & Vazquez. Yet the gaps in his game are both growing and glaring. Its been nearly two years since he scored for the club (November 2016) which, not counting the keepers, is the longest goal drought on the team. His shots from distance are horrifically bad and he often now passes up great scoring opportunities from distance because he knows he can't seem to get the ball even remotely close to the net anymore. His long-range passing has also deteriorated - he now only occasionally hits an accurate long-range pass, rather than regularly doing it, most of the time the passes are over hit (as are most of his free kicks when he takes them). And he's also lost a step in terms of his speed. Long term, it's got to be a concern and I think Fraser needs to start deputizing for him more often sooner rather than later.

I couldn't agree more with all of that.

Bradley has a lot of milage. His minutes need to be managed sooner than later, I think.

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

Jozy isn't worth it overall imo. Between injuries, getting sick during games (which has happened more than once) and red cards (also happened more than once iirc) he is not reliable enough. Not within the context of being a DP in MLS at least.

Except that the team is very noticeably better with him in the lineup compared to when he is not in lineup.   Also,  lets not forget that he was the main architect of the drive to the finals two years ago (especially in the conference finals) and scored the cup winning goal just eight months ago.  

Had this all happened 2-3 years ago, I might agree with you.  But right now, on balance,  the positives he brings still outweigh the negatives.  

 

Ps.:  also,  Giovinco is a much better player when Altidore is out there

 

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I would have settled for just playing at the same level he had been doing. As it was, not only did he not raise his level, he lowered it by several degrees in this game. I see that Vanney in the post-game actually singled out the playing around with the ball by Van Der Wiel and Delgado prior to the winning goal as I had done as being the root cause of the goal (rather than the inadvertent backwards header by Morgan that it seems Caldwell was more focused on in the commentary based on the highlights). He also had another (deserved) go at Delgado (without naming him either time) on the 2nd goal, along with Bono of course who has let in howlers now in two of the last three home games (both losses to NY teams). I think that's the most depressed I've see Vanney look in a post-game show, but you can see why - some players are not playing as well as in 2017 (Bono, Delgado), one of his big stars and team leaders gets a stupid, petulant red in the first 10 minutes of the game and even then, they score 2 goals with 10 men and largely outplay NYCFC in the 2nd half only to conjure up a way to lose the game in the final minutes, which would be emotionally deflating.

Goals against more often than not have a daisy chain of errors attached.  I also thought the second goal was more about the poor play between Van der Wiel and Delgado. 

The red card was just a plain stupid.

[The Beaver]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I couldn't agree more with all of that.

Bradley has a lot of milage. His minutes need to be managed sooner than later, I think.

I'd rest him vs. the Caps on Wednesday. He needs rest and the team is in a great position to win the Canadian championship etc.

(For the record, I still want the Caps to crush TFC!)

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

 And he's also lost a step in terms of his speed. Long term, it's got to be a concern and I think Fraser needs to start deputizing for him more often sooner rather than later.

I'm not sure how much Vanney trusts Fraser from the defensive midfield side of things compared to what Bradley brings in that area, even if he has lost tread on his tires this season.

 

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

I'm not sure how much Vanney trusts Fraser from the defensive midfield side of things compared to what Bradley brings in that area, even if he has lost tread on his tires this season.

 

I dont doubt that is true, but throwing him out every game isnt very good squad management.  Vanney needs to get him some rest if he wants his best over the next few weeks.  Altidore is getting a game off due to his selfish red (and it was 100% red, how can you even argue that one?) next weekend..Vanney better rest a few more on wed.  

[BearcatSA]

15 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont doubt that is true, but throwing him out every game isnt very good squad management.  Vanney needs to get him some rest if he wants his best over the next few weeks.  Altidore is getting a game off due to his selfish red (and it was 100% red, how can you even argue that one?) next weekend..Vanney better rest a few more on wed.  

They may have been looking for a veteran d-mid guy during the transfer window, for all we know, but that didn't result in a signing.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

The "bad karma" refers to what will stem from this game (ie. being emotionally deflating for the team), hence why the comment was followed by this "not setting them up well for Wedneday's game" - rather than the events being a result of bad karma as you imply. No-one was suggesting that Altidore's red (which I called "stupid" from the get-go) was as a result of some voodoo curse placed upon him by a Haitian witch doctor, if that's what you were getting at.

I mean if you are going to troll, at least do it right. It's just common trolling courtesy.

Actually commenting absurd and contradictory comments is the exact opposite of trolling. You're just being territorial ir better, parochial, about the Voyageurs board which is where all Canada fans comment on all threads related to Canadian soccer.

Anyways if you're going to talk about karma, which is a concept you are bastardizing in ethnocentric fashion,  at least be consistent and call TFC being favoured in matches as your  "good karma". Greatest of all time when you win and bad karma when you lose is pretty weak thinking.

[Dub Narcotic]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I couldn't agree more with all of that.

Bradley has a lot of milage. His minutes need to be managed sooner than later, I think.

Yes, I find it infuriating that he gets trashed by American fans. He got ran into the ground every summer for World Cups, Copa America Centrinos, Gold Cups, Confederation Cups and blah blah blah, and it's really seems to be taken its toll. He's noticeably lost a step this year, although he's still one of the best players in the league.

About Altidore: clearly the team needs him. Ricketts and Hamilton got the chance this year to show themselves as viable alternatives and it just didn't happen. I take the point that the best ability is availability but he's clearly one of the best center forwards in CONCACAF when he is on his game.