BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 16 hours ago, Robert said: ...There is no place in Canada for talented players to ply their trade. Even the 3 Canadian MLS clubs discriminate against Canadian talent, only placing a couple of token Canadians on their rosters, at minimal contracts. They don't have to paid Canadians much, because their Canadians. They will play for next to nothing, because their Canadians, and should be happy they can play in Canada... That sounds a bit like something Shermanator would write, so you appear to have something in common with the people who are highly enthused about the CanPL concept because they see it is a replacement for MLS rather than a complement to it. I think what MLS really did from 2007 onwards was to expose how far the Canadian elite player development pathways had fallen behind their American counterparts, how different things are now to the 1970s scenario of Canada being dominant on the North American domestic content in the NASL and how shallow the pool of talent eligible to play for the CMNT is. The millions being spent on the Academy programs because of the homegrown player rule should help to rectify that where CMNT starter level talent is concerned and players like Alphonso Davies and Ballou Tabla are hopefully the start of a production line of top quality talent in the years ahead. Now all we need is more USL/NASL sort of level teams to add a bit more depth based on the players that don't quite make it in MLS or top European terms, but are still good enough to provide a quality entertainment product in smaller markets. Plenty of people seem to be interested in launching pro soccer franchises at the moment, so even if as we both suspect an 8 team minimum domestic pro league is a bridge too far on USL/NASL type budgets at the present time, there should still be more pro teams providing more opportunities to Canadians in the not too distant future. I've never been more optimistic about the future of Canadian soccer, because the success of MLS has finally silenced the soccer haters in the media once and for all and has provided a goal for young players to strive for, who previously tended to drift away from our sport once they hit their mid to late teens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 Two great posts above from Kent and BringBackThe Blizzard. Group 1) It is my opinion that the Voyageurs and a small number of fans of soccer in Canada deserve a soccer structure that far exceeds anything the CanPL is ever going to deliver. The passion and support these two groups have shown for domestic soccer in Canada is equal to, if it doesn't surpass, the passion and soccer that exists in more developed soccer nations. To be as enthusiastic as the Voyageurs are, over a product so modest and ineptly managed, is truly something very special. Group 2) However, it is also my opinion that fans of soccer in Canada deserve exactly what they having been getting for the past 106 years, which basically amounts to sweet fuck all. This group is comprised of the Euro-snobs & MLS-snobs that will fill stadiums in Canada when there are matches with tons of foreign talent, but where are these so-called Canadian lovers of soccer on a cold Saturday or Sunday morning when young Canadian men and women are out chasing a pigskin? It is my gut feeling that the CanPL is going to be an inferior product compared to the CSL was, and considering what happened to the CSL that doesn't bode well for the CanPL. Over the course of my life-time, I haven't seen a significant change in the percentages that represent Groups 1 & 2 above, and primarily for that reason alone, I predict the the CanPL will not be in existence for a period that exceeds the short six-year life-span that the CSL had One question I would like to thrown out there is: Does anyone know if the CanPL has set a quota, similar to what the MLS put into effect when that league started up, as to the number of non-Canadians that CanPL can have on their rosters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Robert said: One question I would like to thrown out there is: Does anyone know if the CanPL has set a quota, similar to what the MLS put into effect when that league started up, as to the number of non-Canadians that CanPL can have on their rosters? This is the closest we have to an answer at the moment. https://the11.ca/canpl-v-p-james-easton-talks-about-how-rosters-will-be-built-and-competition-will-be-shaped/ "While the minimum number of Canadians that need to be on each team’s roster has yet to be finalized, Easton said there are some “overarching guiding principles” that the CanPL has adopted. “This league’s primary purpose is to develop Canadian players for our national team,” he said. But, the league is discussing not only the minimum numbers of Canadians a team will need to have, but those minimums could be age-based, as well. Easton said the CanPL is looking at the Mexican example, where teams are required to give U-20 nationals a required amount of playing time — such as a minimum of 1,000 first-team minutes for U-20 domestic players." Also in the past Paul Beirne has said that they aren't talking about a Canadian quota, but rather an international limit. The implication there is that the majority of players will be Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, Kent said: "While the minimum number of Canadians that need to be on each team’s roster has yet to be finalized, Easton said there are some “overarching guiding principles” that the CanPL has adopted. “This league’s primary purpose is to develop Canadian players for our national team,” he said. As I stated in my previous post: "... the Voyageurs and a small number of fans of soccer in Canada deserve a soccer structure that far exceeds anything the CanPL is ever going to deliver." If Mr. Easton claims that it is the CanPL's "primary purpose is to develop Canadian players for our national team,” then why would he not insist on team rosters being comprised exclusively of players that are eligible to represent Canada at the international level? Allowing foreigners to compete in the CanPL only takes away opportunities for Canadians, and allows teams with more money to buy foreigners in order to win championships. Teams with those kind of rosters already exist in the MLS, and those are far superior to any teams the CanPL will feature. The plan I have for a professional Canadian soccer structure would feature only teams that have rosters comprised of 100% Canadian national-team-eligible-players, who would be playing for $1M per player, per season. Now that's what I think the Voyageurs and that small number of passionate supporters of soccer in Canada deserve. But hey, feel free to get excited about Mr. Easton's Mickey-Mouse-Playing-For-Peanuts-With-Foreigners-League if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmouseyc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 $1M per per, per season? Guaranteed? really? WOW! How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 42 minutes ago, Robert said: As I stated in my previous post: "... the Voyageurs and a small number of fans of soccer in Canada deserve a soccer structure that far exceeds anything the CanPL is ever going to deliver." If Mr. Easton claims that it is the CanPL's "primary purpose is to develop Canadian players for our national team,” then why would he not insist on team rosters being comprised exclusively of players that are eligible to represent Canada at the international level? Allowing foreigners to compete in the CanPL only takes away opportunities for Canadians, and allows teams with more money to buy foreigners in order to win championships. Teams with those kind of rosters already exist in the MLS, and those are far superior to any teams the CanPL will feature. The plan I have for a professional Canadian soccer structure would feature only teams that have rosters comprised of 100% Canadian national-team-eligible-players, who would be playing for $1M per player, per season. Now that's what I think the Voyageurs and that small number of passionate supporters of soccer in Canada deserve. But hey, feel free to get excited about Mr. Easton's Mickey-Mouse-Playing-For-Peanuts-With-Foreigners-League if you like. Your magical guaranteed to work solution is getting even more magical. I think a lot of reasonable people believe that some number of foreign players in the league can help player development. Players can learn from other players. Getting the right mix where you are giving enough opportunities to Canadians, but also providing a bit of competition/mentorship is key. It's disingenuous to equate the not yet determined roster rules of the CPL with MLS. I'm guessing the Canadian player quota for CPL teams will be a lot higher than 3. I'm curious, does anybody know if any top tier leagues in the world have a 100% domestic rule? I did a quick wiki search of the North Korean and Cuban leagues thinking they would be the most likely, but couldn't confirm or deny if they have such a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Robert said: If Mr. Easton claims that it is the CanPL's "primary purpose is to develop Canadian players for our national team,” then why would he not insist on team rosters being comprised exclusively of players that are eligible to represent Canada at the international level? Allowing foreigners to compete in the CanPL only takes away opportunities for Canadians, and allows teams with more money to buy foreigners in order to win championships. Teams with those kind of rosters already exist in the MLS, and those are far superior to any teams the CanPL will feature. The plan I have for a professional Canadian soccer structure would feature only teams that have rosters comprised of 100% Canadian national-team-eligible-players... So, when you thought the Easton report could be used to discredit the CanPL, Mr. Easton was a respected, informed authority, but now that he is on board he is a "Mickey-Mouse" author? The reason we cannot and must not have a 100% CMNT-eligible playlist is the same reason that EVERY OTHER TOP NATIONAL LEAGUE, the ones we can learn from and use as models, allow other players. We can argue percentages but 100% is simply not on the table. There is no business model where that could succeed with sponsors, media, and most importantly, fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, kmouseyc said: $1M per per, per season? Guaranteed? really? WOW! How? WOW! REAL $$$$ That sure got your attention and interest, now didn't it? Ahh yes. Can you smell it? Hmmm. I betcha it even got the attention and interest of that talented goalie living in Butt-fuck, Saskatchewan. Kinda confirms why there hasn't been much interest in soccer in Canada, eh? Money talks and bullshit walks. And we've been doing an awful lot of the latter. Remember that guy on this board who started up the CSF (Canadian Soccer Federation)? He even went as far as to legally register the name! I believe that he was also an Italian. The CSF, the CSA, the CSL, the CanPL, the list of walking bullshit has been long and smelly in this country. As to: "really?" - Well I quit drinking and smoking crack almost 17 years ago, so I'm not stoned or pissed. How? - Well there in lies the REAL FUCKING QUESTION NOW DOESN'T? And if you think I'm just gonna give away the Keys to the Magical Kingdom for free, and let some jack-me-off get rich off of it, well, then you've got another thing coming? HELLO? HELL-NO! It sure does sound wonderful, doesn't. Just imagine if you can, a whole team of CANADIAN soccer players, with a bench of CANADIAN reserves, and a CANADIAN coach, all making ONE MILLION DOLLARS a year, playing soccer in Canada. LIKE HOLY FUCK! REALLY! NOW IF THAT AIN'T YOUR FUCKING WETTEST CANADIAN SOCCER DREAM EVER, THAN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS? Whether or not you believe that such a plan is possible or not, you have to admit that if it is possible, it sure as fuck sounds a lot more interesting then that Mickey-Mouse-Playing-For-Peanuts-With-Foreigners-League that everybody here is getting all excited about, wouldn't you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Robert said: WOW! REAL $$$$ That sure got your attention and interest, now didn't it? Ahh yes. Can you smell it? Hmmm. I betcha it even got the attention and interest of that talented goalie living in Butt-fuck, Saskatchewan. Kinda confirms why there hasn't been much interest in soccer in Canada, eh? Money talks and bullshit walks. And we've been doing an awful lot of the latter. Remember that guy on this board who started up the CSF (Canadian Soccer Federation)? He even went as far as to legally register the name! I believe that he was also an Italian. The CSF, the CSA, the CSL, the CanPL, the list of walking bullshit has been long and smelly in this country. As to: "really?" - Well I quit drinking and smoking crack almost 17 years ago, so I'm not stoned or pissed. How? - Well there in lies the REAL FUCKING QUESTION NOW DOESN'T? And if you think I'm just gonna give away the Keys to the Magical Kingdom for free, and let some jack-me-off get rich off of it, well, then you've got another thing coming? HELLO? HELL-NO! It sure does sound wonderful, doesn't. Just imagine if you can, a whole team of CANADIAN soccer players, with a bench of CANADIAN reserves, and a CANADIAN coach, all making ONE MILLION DOLLARS a year, playing soccer in Canada. LIKE HOLY FUCK! REALLY! NOW IF THAT AIN'T YOUR FUCKING WETTEST CANADIAN SOCCER DREAM EVER, THAN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS? Whether or not you believe that such a plan is possible or not, you have to admit that if it is possible, it sure as fuck sounds a lot more interesting then that Mickey-Mouse-Playing-For-Peanuts-With-Foreigners-League that everybody here is getting all excited about, wouldn't you say? I have a better idea. A three level pyramid each with 20 teams and every player gets 5 million dollars and they are all good enough that they deserve at least that and Canada wins the World Cup in 2022 with players from the league. I know how to make it work and I am not insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Kent said: I have a better idea. A three level pyramid each with 20 teams and every player gets 5 million dollars and they are all good enough that they deserve at least that and Canada wins the World Cup in 2022 with players from the league. I know how to make it work and I am not insane. Enjoy the CanPL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Robert said: Enjoy the CanPL! I fully intend to. Whether it lines up with what I envision/hope for, or whether I think it will survive or not. I will support it and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 What the hell is going on here lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 The reality remains. Is there enough interest in Canadian cities to sustain a professional national soccer league in Canada? From the evidence below, 26 years ago there obviously was not! So what has changed? If you started a professional Canadian soccer league today, without teams in 3 Canadian cities that have an MLS club, would you not really be betting "all in" on Winnipeg interest to sustain such a league? Is the proposed CanPL going to be a better supported league than the CSL of August 13, 1991, which had all those clubs with encouraging + attendance figures and that folded one year later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 13 hours ago, Robert said: Is there enough interest in Canadian cities to sustain a professional national soccer league in Canada? Nobody here knows. I suggest we wait and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 11:19 AM, Kent said: I'm curious, does anybody know if any top tier leagues in the world have a 100% domestic rule? I did a quick wiki search of the North Korean and Cuban leagues thinking they would be the most likely, but couldn't confirm or deny if they have such a rule. There are, of course, a couple of major differences here that need to be considered. First, Canada doesn't have a top tier league, and second, there is a big difference between what will work for an established league, as opposed to one that's being launched for the first time. Personally, I don't think it is worth spending a lot of time on analyzing what works in North Korea and Cuba. They don't seem to have much in common with Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 53 minutes ago, Kent said: Nobody here knows. I suggest we wait and see what happens. Would you say that's sound investment advise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Robert said: Would you say that's sound investment advise? LOL This is not a forum for, "sound investment advice" nor have we been asked to provide any. Soccer is not now, and has never been a particularly, "sound investment". Anyone taking, "investment advice" from supporters of the Canadian National Soccer team should give their head a shake. The original investors in MLS poured a lot of money down the drain and I would expect that any CanPL "investors" would be looking at similar losses (on a smaller scale of course) in the first 5+ years of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 hours ago, ted said: LOL This is not a forum for, "sound investment advice" nor have we been asked to provide any. Soccer is not now, and has never been a particularly, "sound investment". Anyone taking, "investment advice" from supporters of the Canadian National Soccer team should give their head a shake. The original investors in MLS poured a lot of money down the drain and I would expect that any CanPL "investors" would be looking at similar losses (on a smaller scale of course) in the first 5+ years of the league. I didn't realize you had so much investment experience, Ted. If you have any extra cash laying around that you don't know what to do with, please let us know. LOL yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 9 hours ago, ted said: Soccer is not now, and has never been a particularly, "sound investment". MLSE spending $10 million for a franchise now worth over $200 million according to Forbes magazine bucks the trend on that and is probably what has some people thinking CanPL could make money for them long term if they get in early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 15 hours ago, ted said: 1. Soccer is not now, and has never been a particularly, "sound investment". That's exactly, what and must have thought. What you probably meant to say was: Canadian Soccer is not now, and has never been a particularly, "sound investment," right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 10 hours ago, Robert said: What you probably meant to say was: Canadian Soccer is not now, and has never been a particularly, "sound investment," right? Nope. Of all the professional teams around the world, only a very few could be described as a, "sound investment". For every Manchester United there are a dozen or more Accrington Stanleys. More accurately they should be described as, "vanity projects", "labours of love", or "community assets". The point is neither you, nor I, are reliable investment advisers. Your doom and gloom about the CanPL will be proven or disproven over the next few years by people with money. Your flogging of this dead horse serves no useful purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 9 hours ago, ted said: Nope. Of all the professional teams around the world, only a very few could be described as a, "sound investment". For every Manchester United there are a dozen or more Accrington Stanleys. More accurately they should be described as, "vanity projects", "labours of love", or "community assets". The point is neither you, nor I, are reliable investment advisers. Your doom and gloom about the CanPL will be proven or disproven over the next few years by people with money. Your flogging of this dead horse serves no useful purpose. What are you afraid of Ted? Could it be the truth? Why else would you be wasting you're time replying to someone flogging a dead horse? Some individuals are just so desperate to have any kind of a league, that they don't care whether or not it fails in the next few years. Well I do FUCKING care if it succeeds! Letting potential "Mom & Pop" investors think they are making a RELIABLE (give your fucking head a shake) investment is fraudulent ( by the way, I know the meaning of that word)! Any "vanity projects", "labours of love", or "community assets" investors wouldn't invest jack-shit into a team playing in the CanPL. So Ted, do me a favour, instead of trying to hose "Mom & Pop" investors, "Go have sex with your Mother" because obviously you really don't give a fuck what happens to Canadian soccer in the future, as long as you get your little Mickey Mouse CanPL, which is doomed to fail over the next few year, if it even get's up and running, which after all what you are sooooo worried about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I have met the people that run the league, I have been to their office. I have met people who are starting teams in this league, I have been to their offices. There are no mom & pop investors in this league. It doesn't mean this is risk free. It's very risky. The question is how can you work to make it less risky for them. How can you help it succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, admin said: I have met the people that run the league, I have been to their office. I have met people who are starting teams in this league, I have been to there offices. There are no mom & pop investors in this league. It doesn't mean this is risk free. It's very risky. The question is how can you work to make it less risky for them. How can you help it succeed. How often have we seen a storefront at a certain location, which someone leases to open up a pizza restaurant. After a brief period of time, the restaurant fails because they don't sell enough pizzas. After the storefront stands vacant for a while, someone new comes along and starts up a Chinese restaurant. A year later, this restaurant too shuts down because they don't sell enough Chinese food. The same scenario repeats itself several more times. Obviously, this is not a good location for a restaurant. Finally, some kid rents the place and starts up a compassion club, and makes a shit-load of cash. Now I'll spell it out one more time for those who still don't get it. If there is not enough interest in restaurants (soccer leagues) at a certain location (Canada), then you have to try something new like a pot-shop (or a soccer structure that is not a league). There is no "FUCKING WAY" that the CanPL will survive 10 years (one decade) as a coast-to-coast-to-coast soccer league in Canada! I am willing to bet any amount of money on that, are YOU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmouseyc Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Ok @Robert we get it you are pessimistic! We all have gone over and over all the valid points you have brought up, but again either put your money where your mouth is and start this rogue FA that will start the revolution and create a proper football set up to get Canada to the top of the world stage. Meanwhile the rest of us will continue to try and do what ever we can to help support local football to succeed! With that said I am not saying that the CSA is by any means a well oiled machine. So until you have offered me a job at $1million per year coaching in your new FA. I think this thread is done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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