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SOCCER INTEREST IN YOUR COMMUNITY


Robert

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Could anyone confirm, based on the following information, if I am within 10% of being relatively close to estimating that thus far there have been approximately 220 CanPL T-shirts sold?

CanPL Shirt Updated

If you bought the 2018 version of this shirt, don't despair. That's instant cred.

The CanPL shirt has been updated, and we have more cool ones coming soon.   The CanPL shirts sold here are now made from a 50/50 jersey blend and 100% made in Canada.  Very nice high quality t-shirts. 

We have raised almost $2200 for the CanPL supporters groups and hope to continue as 2018 will be a big year for them to grow as much as they can and be ready to kick the league off right. 

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5 minutes ago, Robert said:

Could anyone confirm, based on the following information, if I am within 10% of being relatively close to estimating that thus far there have been approximately 220 CanPL T-shirts sold?

CanPL Shirt Updated

If you bought the 2018 version of this shirt, don't despair. That's instant cred.

The CanPL shirt has been updated, and we have more cool ones coming soon.   The CanPL shirts sold here are now made from a 50/50 jersey blend and 100% made in Canada.  Very nice high quality t-shirts. 

We have raised almost $2200 for the CanPL supporters groups and hope to continue as 2018 will be a big year for them to grow as much as they can and be ready to kick the league off right. 

Are you using t-shirt sales as a barometer for potential success of a soccer league?

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Are you using t-shirt sales as a barometer for potential success of a soccer league?

Yes. Thus far, that is the only barometer that I've been able to find thus far. If you have more useful information, please don't keep us in the dark. I would hope that if there are barometers out there that.measured greater success, that those figures would have been proudly disclosed by "these people, who are choosing to invest their money, and have done a hell of a lot more research than I and have been able to come up with a business plan that has a chance to succeed."

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53 minutes ago, Robert said:

Yes. Thus far, that is the only barometer that I've been able to find thus far. If you have more useful information, please don't keep us in the dark. I would hope that if there are barometers out there that.measured greater success, that those figures would have been proudly disclosed by "these people, who are choosing to invest their money, and have done a hell of a lot more research than I and have been able to come up with a business plan that has a chance to succeed."

T-shirt sales in this capacity is not at all a proxy variable for determining potential ticket sales, the sample is too small. You’d be better off looking at TV vierwership, some sort of proxy variable for other disposable income options (other sports attendance, movie ticket sales, etc...) or adult league registration. As an economist who’s performed econometric regresssions and research that’s my two cents.

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

T-shirt sales in this capacity is not at all a proxy variable for determining potential ticket sales, the sample is too small. You’d be better off looking at TV vierwership, some sort of proxy variable for other disposable income options (other sports attendance, movie ticket sales, etc...) or adult league registration. As an economist who’s performed econometric regresssions and research that’s my two cents.

You win.

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I thought the t-shirt sales were pretty good, given the shirt was designed by a turd like me, we use an obscure eCommerce platform because I can't pay $75 US a month on top of $135US a month to host this site. 

I don't know why you would expect me/us to have any kind of colossal reach beyond this site and FB.  

 

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13 minutes ago, admin said:

I thought the t-shirt sales were pretty good, given the shirt was designed by a turd like me, we use an obscure eCommerce platform because I can't pay $75 US a month on top of $135US a month to host this site. 

I don't know why you would expect me/us to have any kind of colossal reach beyond this site and FB.  

 

Sorry Jaime, I wasn’t knocking the sales. I just meant that they can’t be used to judge potential ticket sales in a future league.

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3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Sorry Jaime, I wasn’t knocking the sales. I just meant that they can’t be used to judge potential ticket sales in a future league.

Oh, I agree with you, not responding to that. 

I don't get why people are so obsessed with proving this will fail and reaching into t-shirt sales from a fan site to prove it. 

I think we could have sold a lot more if I wasn't in Vancouver 75% of last year.  

 

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58 minutes ago, admin said:

I thought the t-shirt sales were pretty good, given the shirt was designed by a turd like me, we use an obscure eCommerce platform because I can't pay $75 US a month on top of $135US a month to host this site. 

I don't know why you would expect me/us to have any kind of colossal reach beyond this site and FB.  

 

Hey, kudos to you for all your doing to keep this site up and running. Personally, I think THE VOYAGEURS are the best thing that Canadian soccer has got going for itself. The Canadian soccer component of my life would be very small without this board, and I think that probably holds true for most of us.

I also understand how everyone who loves soccer in this country desperately wants a domestic league of our own to support. We need that league of our own, not only to have teams to support and cheer for, but also to give our players and coaches an opportunity to develop their skills, so that we may be better represented internationally.   However, the last fucking thing we need is another league that fails after a few unsuccessful seasons. That would set us back light years. Just look how long it's been since the CSL folded in 1992.

TWENTY-FUCKING-SIX YEARS OF SWEET-FUCK-ALL AND COUNTING!

I'll be 62 years old next month. If this Mickey-Mouse League gets up and running next year, and that's still a mighty big fucking IF, as your 2018, Oops, 2019 T-shirts reflects, and if it doesn't last more than a handful of years like the CSL did, then I won't be around by the time  the next TWENTY-FUCKING-SIX YEARS OF SWEET-FUCK-ALL AND COUNTING! roll around.

SO EXCUUUSE ME for being so fucking cynical, or as I prefer, being realistically unenthusiastic about the CanPL scheme!

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9 minutes ago, Robert said:

Hey, kudos to you for all your doing to keep this site up and running. Personally, I think THE VOYAGEURS are the best thing that Canadian soccer has got going for itself. The Canadian soccer component of my life would be very small without this board, and I think that probably holds true for most of us.

I also understand how everyone who loves soccer in this country desperately wants a domestic league of our own to support. We need that league of our own, not only to have teams to support and cheer for, but also to give our players and coaches an opportunity to develop their skills, so that we may be better represented internationally.   However, the last fucking thing we need is another league that fails after a few unsuccessful seasons. That would set us back light years. Just look how long it's been since the CSL folded in 1992.

TWENTY-FUCKING-SIX YEARS OF SWEET-FUCK-ALL AND COUNTING!

I'll be 62 years old next month. If this Mickey-Mouse League gets up and running next year, and that's still a mighty big fucking IF, as your 2018, Oops, 2019 T-shirts reflects, and if it doesn't last more than a handful of years like the CSL did, then I won't be around by the time  the next TWENTY-FUCKING-SIX YEARS OF SWEET-FUCK-ALL AND COUNTING! roll around.

SO EXCUUUSE ME for being so fucking cynical, or as I prefer, being realistically unenthusiastic about the CanPL scheme!

I totally understand where the cynicism comes from.  Been there, and partly still have a foot stuck there.

We should be critical, this is not what I am saying. 

Relentless cynicism isn't the same thing.   The people of this board must find a way to contribute something, anything to help this succeed.   Otherwise we are no better than the people who have stopped soccer from growing in this country for decades.

We are at an amazing crossroads.  If I told you five years ago that we would have a league starting, a world cup, league of nations and an open Voyageurs cup......   you would have said I was totally fucking crazy.

But that is where we are.  We have to find some joy in this, some excitement or anticipation of the future.  

The cynicism is exhausting.  It isn't fun.  This really is an awesome group of people and I have been lucky to meet so many of you across the country.   I enjoy everything so much more now and I didn't have to drink any Kool Aid to do it.  It's just a better place to be.   But more importantly, it is a more effective place to be. 

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A pair of follow-up questions, to original question of this thread, come to mind:

1) Is Canada ready at this time, to support a professional domestic soccer league? Definitely not. Yes, for World Cup Finals we can pack em into a stadium as good as the next country. The same holds true for MLS matches. However, there is no evidence to support that there are enough fans in Canada that will attend, for a prolonged period of time, professional domestic league matches.

2) Is Canada ready at this time, to support a semi-professional domestic stepping-stone structure that will eventually lead to a professional domestic soccer league? Baby, we've been fucking ready for that since 1867! Here's how:

 

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Suspect CanPL either won't get off the ground or won't work as planned but would be very happy to be wrong. If the MLS B teams and affiliates, ex-NASL groups and would be CanPL investors were working in unision something viable would almost certainly happen in domestic league terms, but there are different visions on the way to proceed rather than a shared one and type A personalities that are used to getting their own way in their other business ventures won't easily reach a compromise for the greater good. Once the CanPL thing reaches whatever resolution it is going to reach over the next 18 months or so, it will be almost impossible for all the interest that there is at the moment in launching pro soccer teams not to translate into something better than we have now, so don't understand some of the angst on here sometimes. There are better days ahead.

 

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Even though most Voyageurs on this board are unwilling to publicly admit that soccer interest in Canada is not what we think or hope it should be, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that none of us are satisfied with the status quo.  So who should be held accountable for this unacceptable state we find ourselves in? Certainly not the Voyageurs. If any group of supporters of Canadian soccer should be applauded, then it is us. However, does the same hold true for the CSA? How well has the CSA performed when it comes to promoting the beautiful game in Canada? In the CSA document "LEADING A SOCCER NATION -CANADIAN SOCCER ASSOCIATION - STRATEGIC PLAN - 2014-2018," CSA President Victor Montagliani outlines four points that the Canadian Soccer Association needs to do. His third point states that the CSA needs to "ENCOURAGE and oversee the GROWTH OF THE GAME in our country." 

https://www.canadasoccer.com/files/CanadaSoccer_StrategicPlan2014_2018_EN.pdf

Long-serving CSA General Secretary Peter Montipoli follows up on this point by stating that "The Canadian Soccer Association has spent the last several years growing the game, establishing our expertise in hosting international events, putting our financial house in order, revamping the governing structure, and building the Canada Soccer brand.

Beautiful words Mt. Pete. The only problem being is that they lack substance when it come to growing soccer in this country. Yes, Canada hosted the 2015 Women's World Cup Final and made a shitload of money for the CSA, and the CSA has organized itself in such a way that a select few can enjoy a Sepp Blatter life-style.

Speaking of the 2015 Women's World Cup, FIFA did a wonderful job, at least here in Vancouver, by holding an outdoor soccer exposition to grow and promote the game. With that in mind, how does the CSA do to grow the game in Canada, on an annual basis? Is there any reason why the CSA hasn't hosted an annual soccer exposition, which could rotate between Canadian cities. Bringing in several recognizable Canadian soccer heroes to such an exposition, coaching clinics, organizing a four on four street soccer tournament, host a women's or men's international friendly in the host city, host a gala banquet dinner with Canadian soccer player of the year awards.

Has the CSA fulfilled its promise to "ENCOURAGE and oversee the GROWTH OF THE GAME in our country?" Why hasn't the CSA done anything tangible to grow soccer interest in Canadian communities?

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Arent they working on a joint bid with USA for the world cup??  I realize that is miles down the road and we would only get a few games out of it, but it is a BIG something they are working on.  That seems like something to grow and promote the game.

 

And what are those active start soccer fests spread out across the country they talk about on the website? I guess thats mainly at pre teens, but its a annual program aimed at promoting soccer interest.  You'd like to see a big exposition in 1 city a year, aimed more at adults?  Not trolling, but you seem to have lots of ideas...keep going, lets hear some more.  

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Arent they working on a joint bid with USA for the world cup??  I realize that is miles down the road and we would only get a few games out of it, but it is a BIG something they are working on.  That seems like something to grow and promote the game.

 

And what are those active start soccer fests spread out across the country they talk about on the website? I guess thats mainly at pre teens, but its a annual program aimed at promoting soccer interest.  You'd like to see a big exposition in 1 city a year, aimed more at adults?  Not trolling, but you seem to have lots of ideas...keep going, lets hear some more.  

Okay, here's a couple of questions for you:

Who does more to "ENCOURAGE THE GROWTH OF SOCCER IN CANADA," the CSA or the VOYAGEURS?

How did hosting the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup" ENCOURAGE THE GROWTH OF SOCCER IN CANADA?" Is there a domestic league for Christine Sinclair to play in?

How did hosting the 2007 FIFA Men's U20 World Cup" ENCOURAGE THE GROWTH OF SOCCER IN CANADA" Is there a professional domestic league for young players to play in?

If the joint bid with the US and Mexico is successful, what will a handful of games in Toronto do to "ENCOURAGE THE GROWTH OF SOCCER IN CANADA?"

Yeah, the CSA has learned how to bid for a joint tournament, and to make a couple of bucks off of hosting a tournament no one else wanted, but how much of that money did the CSA reinvest to  "ENCOURAGE THE GROWTH OF SOCCER IN CANADA?"

Want to hear some more, I could keep going on ad nauseum, if you like?

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15 hours ago, Bison44 said:

No thanks, answering questions with more questions when you claim to have all the answers is good enough for me.  

That's exactly the kinda of apathy why interest in Canadian soccer is where's it's at! The unwillingness to take an honest assessment of our game. And it is this apathy that claims more Canadian talent than we lose to defections. The latter we all know about. There is no place in Canada for talented players to ply their trade. Even the 3 Canadian MLS clubs discriminate against Canadian talent, only placing a couple of token Canadians on their rosters, at minimal contracts. They don't have to paid Canadians much, because their Canadians. They will play for next to nothing, because their Canadians, and should be happy they can play in Canada. The CanPL is not going to keep that level of Canadian talent in Canada. And what about the even greater pool of talent we lose to apathy. What about that talented goalie who lives in Small-Town Canada? Is he gonna move to a Canadian city and get a part-time job working graveyards at Walmart so that he can play a few years for a CanPL team and maybe get discovered by an MLS scout? WOW! THE FUCKING CANADIAN SOCCER DREAM EH? 

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Oopps, sorry my bad.  CPL sucks, things are terrible!!  Does that make me less apathetic?  Where in your rant is any sort of solution??  You are bitching about what the CSA gets done, and then also what doesnt get done.  How does moaning about who does more for soccer the voyageurs or CSA help anything?  I would argue hosting the womens world cup did alot for soccer in canada.  Having the games in WPG brought a HUGE soccer buzz to the province.  And I would also argue if we hadnt had hosted the the U-20 mens cup, then the womens might not have come to canada. Step by step we are moving forward.  Hosting a gold cup game, and maybe hosting 6-8 World cup games will help.  If you cant see that or acknowledge that, then I dont know what else I can say.  If you just want to berate the few people that actually follow soccer and seem to care about the national teams because the rest of the country doesnt care, good luck with that!  

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46 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Oopps, sorry my bad.  CPL sucks, things are terrible!!  Does that make me less apathetic?  Where in your rant is any sort of solution??  You are bitching about what the CSA gets done, and then also what doesnt get done.  How does moaning about who does more for soccer the voyageurs or CSA help anything?  I would argue hosting the womens world cup did alot for soccer in canada.  Having the games in WPG brought a HUGE soccer buzz to the province.  And I would also argue if we hadnt had hosted the the U-20 mens cup, then the womens might not have come to canada. Step by step we are moving forward.  Hosting a gold cup game, and maybe hosting 6-8 World cup games will help.  If you cant see that or acknowledge that, then I dont know what else I can say.  If you just want to berate the few people that actually follow soccer and seem to care about the national teams because the rest of the country doesnt care, good luck with that!  

Oopps, sorry my bad. Is that the new way kids speak, or is it poor English?

CPL sucks, things are terrible!! Fucking right it is, and are! Canadian soccer is an embarrassment! Just ask anyone who isn't Canadian.

Does that make me less apathetic? Only you can answer that.

Where in your rant is any sort of solution?? The first step toward any solution is admitting you have a problem.

You are bitching about what the CSA gets done, and then also what doesnt get done. The CSA is the problem.

How does moaning about who does more for soccer the voyageurs or CSA help anything? I guess some ignorant fucks will always continue to look at movements like "Idle No More" and "#metoo" as moaning.

I would argue hosting the womens world cup did alot for soccer in canada.  Having the games in WPG brought a HUGE soccer buzz to the province. Argue all you want. The problem with any kind of "buzz" is that it wears off rather quickly, and then you need more of what gave you that "buzz." Where the fuck is Winnipeg or Manitoba at today? Go Jets. Go women's curling. Go anywhere in the world and ask what people what they know about Winnipeg or Manitoba soccer and I bet you anything that the response will be the same!

And I would also argue if we hadnt had hosted the the U-20 mens cup, then the womens might not have come to canada. Oh really? Please present your argument?

Step by step we are moving forward. All the way to NOWHERE!

Hosting a gold cup game, and maybe hosting 6-8 World cup games will help.  If you cant see that or acknowledge that, then I dont know what else I can say. Hey, we agree, I can't see that happening, because it hasn't done so in the past.

If you just want to berate the few people that actually follow soccer and seem to care about the national teams because the rest of the country doesnt care, good luck with that!  Now I want you to read your last sentence again, and see how "FEW" is the operative word in that sentence.

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6 hours ago, Robert said:

That's exactly the kinda of apathy why interest in Canadian soccer is where's it's at! The unwillingness to take an honest assessment of our game. And it is this apathy that claims more Canadian talent than we lose to defections. The latter we all know about. There is no place in Canada for talented players to ply their trade. Even the 3 Canadian MLS clubs discriminate against Canadian talent, only placing a couple of token Canadians on their rosters, at minimal contracts. They don't have to paid Canadians much, because their Canadians. They will play for next to nothing, because their Canadians, and should be happy they can play in Canada. The CanPL is not going to keep that level of Canadian talent in Canada. And what about the even greater pool of talent we lose to apathy. What about that talented goalie who lives in Small-Town Canada? Is he gonna move to a Canadian city and get a part-time job working graveyards at Walmart so that he can play a few years for a CanPL team and maybe get discovered by an MLS scout? WOW! THE FUCKING CANADIAN SOCCER DREAM EH? 

 

3 hours ago, Robert said:

Oopps, sorry my bad. Is that the new way kids speak, or is it poor English?

 

'They are Canadians' or 'They're Canadians'.   

Grammar Slammer Bammer hammer Robert now?  

...reference to The Hilarious House Of Frightenstein which I'm sure 62 year old Canadian men would remember.  

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Of course soccer isn’t as popular in Canada as we would like. But yes, hosting the women’s World Cup does promote growth in the sport. Hosting a couple Gold Cup games was an attempt to grow the sport as well. Opening up the Voyageurs Cup to a couple D3 teams is an attempt to grow the sport as well. As for what’s going on in Winnipeg, well they have been approved for a franchise in a domestic professional league that seems to have imminent news coming in the near future. We have also infiltrated CONCACAF and are bringing in the Nations league that should be a benefit to Canada. And of course as has been mentioned the joint bid for the men’s World Cup.

If we venture out of the 3 year and almost 2 month span (so far) the CSA’s plan highlighted then didn’t hosting the U20 World Cup play a big role in getting that soccer stadium in Toronto built, and establishing TFC? I am fuzzy on the details of that, and yeah you (and I) can complain about the lack of minutes for Canadian players on MLS teams, but at the least TFC (and Whitecaps and Impact) has promoted growth in the sport in spectator terms. Having 27k fans come out to the stadium regularly and 2 million people watching the final on TV (not sure if that is peak or average) is good for the sport.

Yes of course things could be better, but you are working pretty hard to minimize past efforts/successes, and are trying to snuff out things coming around the corner (Herdman as men’s team manager and CPL) before we have a chance to see the results of those things.

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