Jonathan David

[baulderdash77]

10 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

If/when this transfer goes through let’s have a 2-3 month moratorium on discussion about his next club.  

Until every bit of news of Lille comes through, until pre season starts and the week before his first game.  

[shamrock]

Gent struck a little goldmine and they want to be paid. And they will. 

[Stryker911]

No sign of him in Gents preseason match today.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On topic paper talk - take it for what it is worth.  

According to the Scottish Sun, Lille are looking elsewhere including Arfield's teammate Alfredo Morelos:

 

"But Lille could now kick off a bidding war for the Colombian international, who Gers rate at around £20m.

The Ligue One side have cash to spend having just sold star striker Victor Osimhen to Napoli for an eye-watering £60m.

Boss Christophe Galtier does have a list of replacements lined up, including Canadian international Jonathan David.

However, Lille have been scared off by Genk's £35m asking price.

It's also believed Red Bull Salzburg have booted out a £28m offer for Zambian goal machine Patson Daka.

And the Daily Mail reports Galtier could now turn his attention to Morelos by stumping up £15m."

 

It's the Sun and fudging transfer fees for rage clicks is kind of their thing but there you go. 

[Obinna]

I said at the very beginning that the greed of Gent could risk the relationship with David. Jonathan clearly isn't happy that a deal hasn't materialized. I don't blame him. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Obinna

[El Hombre]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

I said at the very beginning that the greed of Gent could risk the relationship with David. Jonathan clearly isn't happy that a deal hasn't materialized. I don't blame him. 

But the minute David went public with his dissatisfaction, he handicapped Gent's ability to negotiate.  He brought some of this on himself.  If he would've let the teams negotiate, there could've been a deal by now.  However, Lille doesn't need to break the bank because they now know that Gent need to sell David because the relationship is no longer tenable.

I don't think Gent is being particularly greedy.  They're trying to capitalize on a hot commodity in a really tough time.

[El Diego]

30 or 35... what is that extra 5 million worth to Gent? In this uncertain market, if you really were gonna sell at 35 then why not take the 30 when it is clear no club is going to go higher than that?

I remember when Dortmund allowed Lewandowski's contract tor run out when it was clear he wanted to go to Bayern. I guess this is a little different because Gent and Lille are not direct rivals in the same league, but I wonder if Dortmund regret that decision. Lewandowski had a decent season (28 goals all comps) but Dortmund were a distant second in the league and lost in the QF of the CL.

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, El Diego said:

30 or 35... what is that extra 5 million worth to Gent?

A good depth player?

[El Diego]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

A good depth player?

But if the risk is you end up selling him for 20 or he runs out his contract...

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, El Diego said:

But if the risk is you end up selling him for 20 or he runs out his contract...

You keep him and make a run in the Champions League. If does well, sell him then at a higher price

[El Diego]

Just now, Ansem said:

You keep him and make a run in the Champions League. If does well, sell him then at a higher price

I think that's a real consideration, even if you end up losing him when his contract runs out. If David truly pushes you from EL (or no Europe) to CL, then he is potentially worth more than a transfer fee.

[Strait Red]

Lille is also rumored to be close to signing Besiktas striker Burak Ylimaz, so they may have moved on from David.

Ylimaz is 35 and it’s hard to believe a team like Lille who likes younger players would be interested in him.

[baulderdash77]

5 minutes ago, Strait Red said:

Lille is also rumored to be close to signing Besiktas striker Burak Ylimaz, so they may have moved on from David.

Ylimaz is 35 and it’s hard to believe a team like Lille who likes younger players would be interested in him.

Ylimaz is just a stopgap depth player at this point.  He’s not someone you build around 

[Obinna]

46 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

But the minute David went public with his dissatisfaction, he handicapped Gent's ability to negotiate.  He brought some of this on himself.  If he would've let the teams negotiate, there could've been a deal by now.  However, Lille doesn't need to break the bank because they now know that Gent need to sell David because the relationship is no longer tenable.

I don't think Gent is being particularly greedy.  They're trying to capitalize on a hot commodity in a really tough time.

That is true.

Lille also said their bid was firm. Could be a negotiation tactic, but they are also looking elsewhere for a 20M euro player now. 

The relationship is no longer tenable because Gent told David they wouldn't block him from moving. If David feels that way there's been a miscommunication. For this reason I put the blame on Gent. 

The reason I think Gent are greedy here is because they are overvaluing David as per the lack of buyers for their asking price. They are doing the right thing by trying to get as much as possible, but in my view they shot themselves in the foot the moment they told David they wouldn't block him from moving. 

Genk did the same thing with Pozuelo. They told him they wouldn't stand in his way, but they did when push came to shove. They waited and waited until Toronto coughed up an extra 2 million. Toronto made it pretty obvious it was Pozuelo or nothing (basically), so for them it worked, but Lille is now shopping elsewhere.

I don't think Gent have played their hand well no matter how you cut it.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Obinna

[Obinna]

16 minutes ago, Strait Red said:

Lille is also rumored to be close to signing Besiktas striker Burak Ylimaz, so they may have moved on from David.

Ylimaz is 35 and it’s hard to believe a team like Lille who likes younger players would be interested in him.

This makes sense for Lille. He is (probably) more in the mold of Osimhen for a fraction of the price. 

This would be great news for Larin by the way.

[El Hombre]

48 minutes ago, El Diego said:

30 or 35... what is that extra 5 million worth to Gent?

 

37 minutes ago, Ansem said:

A good depth player?

Actually, for Gent, that's a starter.  5 million makes a ton of difference to a team that is currently second in the league and are going to have to replace not only their best player but close to the league's best player.

35 minutes ago, El Diego said:

But if the risk is you end up selling him for 20 or he runs out his contract...

If he runs out his contract in 2023 without Gent being able to find a buyer, David has bigger problems on his hands.

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, El Diego said:

But if the risk is you end up selling him for 20 or he runs out his contract...

It is a shame his contract doesn't expire until 2023. He should have put a release clause in there. Lesson learned I guess.

All he can do now is play Champions League and prove he's the 35M player Gent think he is. Hopefully David comes through this better off at the end of the day. 

[El Hombre]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That is true.

Lille also said their bid was firm. Could be a negotiation tactic, but they are also looking elsewhere for a 20M euro player now. 

The relationship is no longer tenable because Gent told David they wouldn't block him from moving. If David feels that way there's been a miscommunication. For this reason I put the blame on Gent. 

The reason I think Gent are greedy here is because they are overvaluing David as per the lack of buyers for their asking price. They are doing the right thing by trying to get as much as possible, but in my view they shot themselves in the foot the moment they told David they wouldn't block him from moving. 

Genk did the same thing with Pozuelo. They told him they wouldn't stand in his way, but they did when push came to shove. They waited and waited until Toronto coughed up an extra 2 million. Toronto made it pretty obvious it was Pozuelo or nothing (basically), so for them it worked, but Lille is now shopping elsewhere.

I don't think Gent have played their hand well no matter how you cut it.

Rarely does a team make a serious bid and not indicate that it was firm.  Not great negotiation if you go in saying, here's 25 million, but you could probably get more out of me.

Gent have the opportunity to overvalue Jonathan because he's on contract for another 3 years.  There is no rush to sell him.  Also, they aren't the ones blocking the move.  They set the price and no one has met it.  Lille is blocking the move because they haven't met the price.  I know Jonathan won't see it that way because Lille has put stars in his eyes, but its the truth.

Also, the difference between Lille and TFC is Lille knows how to negotiate.  Of course they're going to look elsewhere now, or at least appear to be, because they're calling Gent's bluff.  If Gent doesn't have any other options, they'll lower their price.

[Obinna]

Just now, El Hombre said:

Rarely does a team make a serious bid and not indicate that it was firm.  Not great negotiation if you go in saying, here's 25 million, but you could probably get more out of me.

Gent have the opportunity to overvalue Jonathan because he's on contract for another 3 years.  There is no rush to sell him.  Also, they aren't the ones blocking the move.  They set the price and no one has met it.  Lille is blocking the move because they haven't met the price.  I know Jonathan won't see it that way because Lille has put stars in his eyes, but its the truth.

Also, the difference between Lille and TFC is Lille knows how to negotiate.  Of course they're going to look elsewhere now, or at least appear to be, because they're calling Gent's bluff.  If Gent doesn't have any other options, they'll lower their price.

I agree with your overall sentiment here. Maybe a little silly to paint this as Lille doing the blocking, but I know your just driving the point home. 

As for Jonathan having stars in his eyes for Lille, well duh. If the club told him they won't stand in his way, what do you expect? Of course he's going to want to leave.

Gent could have done better by not giving David those assurances. Completely unnecessary. 

[El Diego]

Oi, I forgot that Gent reupped his deal. I kept assuming he only had one year left.

[Obinna]

Things I have learned:

- Yilmaz actually parted ways with Besiktas, which suggests Lille will not have to pay anything to sign him. In fact it seems he's already signed.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/24/napoli-agree-initial-60m-fee-for-lilles-nigeria-striker-victor-osimhen

- Lille have already put in a 30M euro offer for Daka, who plays mostly at CF but can also play on either wing. RB Salzburg are talking like they are in no rush to sell him. Same story as David really.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/lille-make-record-offer-for-patson-daka-salzburg-quot-not-our-plan-to-sell-him-quot-/view/news/366101

 

The guardian article says that Lille will step up efforts to get David after seeing their 25M euro bid rejected, but time will tell. Very interesting transfer saga ....

[dyslexic nam]

Any critics of Gent also can’t ignore the fact that David signed a deal with them to extend his term there.  That sort of proposal by the club only has two possible motives:

- to keep him for longer

- to get more money in a transfer situation 

The fact that Gent now has this longer contract as leverage in any transfer negotiations is largely due to a decision David was entirely part of and had to be aware of the implications of.  Hard to blame the club for using it to their advantage and getting what they feel is fair market value for a hot commodity.   Not standing in the way of a transfer doesn’t mean they aren’t going to extract a good return for their investment.   

Edited July 24, 2020 by dyslexic nam

[SthMelbRed]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Any critics of Gent also can’t ignore the fact that David signed a deal with them to extend his term there.  That sort of proposal by the club only has two possible motives:

- to keep him for longer

- to get more money in a transfer situation 

The fact that Gent now has this longer contract as leverage in any transfer negotiations is largely due to a decision David was entirely part of and had to be aware of the implications of.  Hard to blame the club for using it to their advantage and getting what they feel is fair market value for a hot commodity.   Not standing in the way of a transfer doesn’t mean they aren’t going to extract a good return for their investment.   

It could be a situation where David felt some gratitude for the opportunity Gent gave him and they agreed to the extension to ensure that the club got a decent fee for him, but with a handshake agreement that they wouldn't unreasonably hold him back. If that's indeed what transpired, the future relationship between club and player will hinge upon what either side considers to be 'unreasonable'. Gent are playing a potentially dangerous game where they risk alienating one of the best talents to ever pass through their system. That could have both short- and long-term consequences. In the short-term, it could create friction in their dressing room as they enter into a crucial season with CL football upcoming. In the long-term, it could hurt their image as a desirable destination for talented, young players to spend a few of their key development years before moving on to bigger, better things. The question is, how much is an extra 5-7 million Euros worth to them today. There's a delicate balance...

[shamrock]

15 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Rarely does a team make a serious bid and not indicate that it was firm.  Not great negotiation if you go in saying, here's 25 million, but you could probably get more out of me.

Gent have the opportunity to overvalue Jonathan because he's on contract for another 3 years.  There is no rush to sell him.  Also, they aren't the ones blocking the move.  They set the price and no one has met it.  Lille is blocking the move because they haven't met the price.  I know Jonathan won't see it that way because Lille has put stars in his eyes, but its the truth.

Also, the difference between Lille and TFC is Lille knows how to negotiate.  Of course they're going to look elsewhere now, or at least appear to be, because they're calling Gent's bluff.  If Gent doesn't have any other options, they'll lower their price.

Agree with the first two parts, but I wouldn't call it bluff. If push comes to shove he WILL play for them again, but I'm willing to bet he'll just go to Lille and they get an extra couple of mil or a % when they sell him again or whatever out of it. 

[narduch]

Surprised this wasn't posted yet.