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Jonathan David

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1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Can't see him starting for any of the English clubs, unless maybe if Everton have well and truly given up on Kean already. The RB clubs' philosophies are pretty good with young players, so there or Ajax, which was mentioned somewhere during the window.  Southampton was also mentioned then which I would like better than any of those three Premiership clubs. 

But again, if Gent make Champions League, why make a change when things are working where he is?

You only get better training and playing top players every week. David has the talent to move on to a top 4/5 league. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders so I can't see him rushing and accepting anything he's given. I think he can play in any league in the world. He's a special talent. If he was Brazilian the biggest clubs in the world would be fighting for his signature. He just turned 20 a month ago and he's leading the league (Tied in the lead) for goals scored and in 3rd place for assists.... 

 

It's time we stop selling Canadian players short. We have the talent to be a serious nation in the future. Alphonso is showing it in Germany and I'm sure David will show it wherever he goes next

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What do we think his value would be if he was doing the same thing in MLS right now? 

From a footballing perspective he would be up against better talents but there is no chance that his value would be 20-30M even if he was outscoring the likes of Vela and Chicharito.  

Looking back it is absolutely laughable the price Bayern got Davies for.  The kid was an all-star and leading MLS in duels won and dribbles per match at 17 - in addition to his continental golden boot at 16.  

I love David and he'll be full value for his money but it is really something how much being in MLS seemingly diminishes one's world transfer value if you compare his resume to Davies.

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I think after Davies it could be 20 million. Davies big number is now looking like a a steal. If a 20 yr old had back to back seasons of big numbers of over 20 goals I absolutely think 20 mil plus would be the number. I'm not saying he should have stayed in the MLS because I agree the structure of the MLS is not typically beneficial for young domestic players. But, if a 20 yr old is ripping it up in the MLS, big teams will now fork out

Edited by SpursFlu

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9 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think after Davies it could be 20 million. Davies big number is now looking like a a steal. If a 20 yr old had back to back seasons of big numbers of over 20 goals I absolutely think 20 mil plus would be the number. I'm not saying he should have stayed in the MLS because I agree the structure of the MLS is not typically beneficial for young domestic players. But, if a 20 yr old is ripping it up in the MLS, big teams will now fork out

But remember Miguel Almiron went for even more than Davies and has been a complete flop.  Of course that may tell you about the clubs they went to and their management more than anything (I'm a NUFC fan).  

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If Gent receive a significant offer and all indications are that they will,  David will be sold this summer. His soccer IQ and composure under pressure is off the charts for his age. There is no reason why he should not be able to play in a top 5 league and  he is ready for that next step. May need half a season to transition but the sky is the limit for him

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50 minutes ago, TFC2017 said:

You only get better training and playing top players every week.

With respect, this is demonstrably not true.  David has got much better since I have been watching him in the Belgian league and they have very few top players. I can say the same thing about Larin this year, who is further down the development path.  There is a lot to be said for stability, especially playing with an offensive-minded team and getting games in Europe. 

If the right situation comes along, with a team with a pedigree of developing and most importantly playing young players, he should consider and probably take it. 

But I have seen many players from Belgian-like leagues with huge numbers do nothing in the Premier League, halting their development, no matter who they are training with. 

I want the best for him, long term, playing for Canada and that does not always mean going to the biggest club or league right away or becoming some nomad, like so many of our players have. I don't think that is selling him short.  He is one of my favourite players right now and I love watching him play.  Let the Americans boast about how many players they have in the top whatever leagues, as long as we do better than them in 6 years (my realistic plan), I don't care.  

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28 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

With respect, this is demonstrably not true.  David has got much better since I have been watching him in the Belgian league and they have very few top players. I can say the same thing about Larin this year, who is further down the development path.  There is a lot to be said for stability, especially playing with an offensive-minded team and getting games in Europe. 

If the right situation comes along, with a team with a pedigree of developing and most importantly playing young players, he should consider and probably take it. 

But I have seen many players from Belgian-like leagues with huge numbers do nothing in the Premier League, halting their development, no matter who they are training with. 

I want the best for him, long term, playing for Canada and that does not always mean going to the biggest club or league right away or becoming some nomad, like so many of our players have. I don't think that is selling him short.  He is one of my favourite players right now and I love watching him play.  Let the Americans boast about how many players they have in the top whatever leagues, as long as we do better than them in 6 years (my realistic plan), I don't care.  

They had to increase their games as one was coming from Canada and the other America. If they want to continue to raise their game they need to move on to higher divisions. Eventually they'll peak if they stay in their leagues. Jonathan David is already one of if not the best player in the league. He's also 20

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3 minutes ago, TFC2017 said:

They had to increase their games as one was coming from Canada and the other America. If they want to continue to raise their game they need to move on to higher divisions. Eventually they'll peak if they stay in their leagues. Jonathan David is already one of if not the best player in the league. He's also 20

Eventually...peak.

Is the key for me there.  He may have chance to add Champions League games next season to Europa League ones (they got with some luck) they have this season. He may not get that in another league. Watching him a little bit, I would not say he or his team have peaked yet.

From experience watching live, those Europa League and Champions League qualifying runs are grueling slogs and I think it helped him this year.  That can be the opposite but if they keep second place, they would have couple early rounds again (pre window shutting).

Him being 20 is a great reason to stay, if he continues to develop he will get a chance at the highest level.  It doesn't need to be and, either way, probably won't be next year.

Just my opinion.

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The thing to keep in mind is that David is now firmly their best player.

How many clubs sell their best player before Champions League? How does that work out for them?

That said, there is a number they cannot refuse, Champions League or not, but they have good reason to hold out until such an offer arrives. This dynamic is driving up David's value.

Edited by Obinna

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2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

If Gent receive a significant offer and all indications are that they will,  David will be sold this summer. His soccer IQ and composure under pressure is off the charts for his age. There is no reason why he should not be able to play in a top 5 league and  he is ready for that next step. May need half a season to transition but the sky is the limit for him

I just think we have to be a bit cautious about striking. Atlético Madrid picked up Joao Felix from Portugal for this season, he was probably amongst the best young striking prospects in Europe, and he has really struggled. Then there is Haaland, but he has an outstanding physical presence and wisely went to the right place. So you have to be careful about not shooting too high. 

I can honestly say that in Spain David would struggle in top flight, except on very specific teams that are more dynamic and creative and give their kids freedom, like Real Sociedad. They have Odegaard and Isak, who is a cool talent, but they are the exception. Most are just bogged down in avoiding relegation or squeezing out an away draw. There is a lot of anxiety across the table. The modest teams do not have strikers like David, they have tanks who can nail goals, and if they score 8-10 in a season that's a lot.

I would agree with those saying that going to France to a strong mid-table club would be interesting.

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

The thing to keep in mind is that David is now firmly their best player.

How many clubs sell their best player before Champions League? How does that work out for them?

That said, there is a number they cannot refuse, Champions League or not, but they have good reason to hold out until such an offer arrives. This dynamic is driving up David's value.

I know this isn't what you're referring to but it's funny that Toronto and Montreal have now done it back-to-back years... 😂

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Also wasn't Pozuelo a major player for Genk in the middle of their championship run and destined for Champions League? Although that was more predatory on TFC's part.

Edited by narduch
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2 minutes ago, narduch said:

Also wasn't Pozuelo a major player for Gent in the middle of their championship run and destined for Champions League? Although that was more predatory on TFC's part.

Pozuelo was with Genk*, who were in the knockouts of the Europa League.

 

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I just think we have to be a bit cautious about striking. Atlético Madrid picked up Joao Felix from Portugal for this season, he was probably amongst the best young striking prospects in Europe, and he has really struggled. Then there is Haaland, but he has an outstanding physical presence and wisely went to the right place. So you have to be careful about not shooting too high. 

I can honestly say that in Spain David would struggle in top flight, except on very specific teams that are more dynamic and creative and give their kids freedom, like Real Sociedad. They have Odegaard and Isak, who is a cool talent, but they are the exception. Most are just bogged down in avoiding relegation or squeezing out an away draw. There is a lot of anxiety across the table. The modest teams do not have strikers like David, they have tanks who can nail goals, and if they score 8-10 in a season that's a lot.

I would agree with those saying that going to France to a strong mid-table club would be interesting.

I agree that a team in the French league or perhaps Ajax would be ideal...a step up but not too steep that he struggles; but if his value keeps escalating can those teams/leagues afford him? Its an interesting situation and a challenge facing David. A team in the Bundesliga may be the best spot for him. He will be closely watched tomorrow vs Roma. 

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I think many of us still underestimate what he’s done over the last 12-18 months. According to transfermarkt he’s currently ranked 11th worldwide this season amongst top flight scorers (goals and assists). Only big names are ahead of him including Messi, Lewandowski, Haaland, Immobile... Other than maybe de Bruyne they’re all still in their respective title races. They’re all from dominant teams, historically and currently (Celtic, Bayern, Barcelona...).

This doesn’t even account for his tally of 11 goals and 5 assists in 12 matches for Canada, or for winning the gold cup golden boot. 

He’s ready for a bigger stage but he’s also currently in a very good situation so he can choose to be picky  

Edited by Aird25

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13 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

But remember Miguel Almiron went for even more than Davies and has been a complete flop.  Of course that may tell you about the clubs they went to and their management more than anything (I'm a NUFC fan).  

Almiron is not a complete flop. It's hard to put up real numbers when you're playing on a glorified Championship team and you're one of only 2 legitimate, Premier League-quality attacking players in the squad.

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7 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Almiron is not a complete flop. It's hard to put up real numbers when you're playing on a glorified Championship team and you're one of only 2 legitimate, Premier League-quality attacking players in the squad.

That would be all fine if he wasn’t the clubs record signing.. but he is.  Expectations are higher. 

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8 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Almiron is not a complete flop. It's hard to put up real numbers when you're playing on a glorified Championship team and you're one of only 2 legitimate, Premier League-quality attacking players in the squad.

The "glorified Championship team" is a bit off I think.

And this actually goes back why David being in a bigger league is not automatically a good thing, in my opinion. (It has to be the right situation in a bigger league) 

You have Premier League 6/7 teams that are Europe regulars and can realistically try to sign almost any player.  Sometimes one slips out of that top bracket and sometimes a lower team builds something for a year or even a few but since Chelsea and Man City got their cash injections, it will basically reset.  Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Swansea, Burnley, Leicester (then and now)off the top of my head.  All had much better years (to varying degrees, of course) at one point in the last 15 years.  They have also been in and around Newcastle more often than not. 

That means you have well over half the teams in the richest league in world that are somehow not Premiership teams? That is most of the Premier League, if we are honest, and those are teams that David would be playing against the majority of the time with, if he played, especially without Europe.  It is similar situation and often much more extreme in other leagues.  ( I would not like him to do a Vincent Janssen , for instance.)

Back to the post specifically, Newcastle have a long history, big stadium and huge loyal supporter base.  They have been hamstrung (like my club) by poor owners and poor transfers in the era of big TV money, but they are a top flight team by almost any definition.  But maybe lifelong supporters of clubs like that need to stick together and I am biased. 

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How much higher can he raise his stock playing in Belgium for another year?  He's just like King Louie from The Jungle Book, he's reached the top and had to stop.

David has the talent to play in any league in the world, if the right club from any of the big 5 leagues comes calling he should make the move.  If the club has adequate players around him and a good track record for being patient with younger players adjusting to a new league. 

Italy is too volatile, I'm partial to the Bundesliga.  There is a history of successful Canadians there and they've just seen what being patient with a young Alphonso Davies can do.  If RB Leipzig or Leverkusen are looking that would be an outstanding landing spot for him. 

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9 minutes ago, Stouffvillain said:

How much higher can he raise his stock playing in Belgium for another year?  He's just like King Louie from The Jungle Book, he's reached the top and had to stop.

David has the talent to play in any league in the world, if the right club from any of the big 5 leagues comes calling he should make the move.  If the club has adequate players around him and a good track record for being patient with younger players adjusting to a new league. 

Italy is too volatile, I'm partial to the Bundesliga.  There is a history of successful Canadians there and they've just seen what being patient with a young Alphonso Davies can do.  If RB Leipzig or Leverkusen are looking that would be an outstanding landing spot for him. 

I agree with almost all of that.  Right type of club, being in Europe etc. 

However, I don't care about his "stock" or what transfermarket rates him.  He is 20 and years to get there. It is about long term improvement.

He has a chance to play some of the best clubs in the world next year, if he can help get his team to the Champions League.   A mid table team in the best leagues, (that could always slip into a relegation battle) is not better than that for me. Sure you get to play against DeBruyne or Kante or Van Dyke but is it great for a young attacking player when your team would love to come away with a point in both games? 

So as you say a Leipzig, or an Ajax would be great but if not, staying would not be the end of the world, especially if they get second and can do the business in their Champions League qualifiers.  That all said, I might throw all my logic out the window if a certain club from East London came calling...maybe. 

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