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Vince193

Jonathan David

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20 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

For me, Tabla has screwed up by going back to Impact. He could have simply asked Barça for a loan for the second half of the season, in 2nd division again, and took his chances. Stay in the loop and do what a lot of academy players do, keep your value up and try to rebuild the career if it stalls. 

I see going back to Impact as a sort of rendition.

For me going back to the Impact is the rebuild.

Rebuilds his confidence, form, and value (in that order). The problem with staying in Spain is that it is much harder for him to break into a team on loan, and if Barca B sold him to another team, he is still in Spain, a foriegn land where nobody will give you anything. At Montreal he needs to earn it as well, but at least he is in the friendly confines of his hometown, so the level of comfort is greater and that should lend itself to better performances, I hope.

If he had a David/Davies mentality I would agree with you. Stay in the Barca system, be patient, and take your chance when it comes. Tabla is different though, clearly. What he needs is a full reset and Montreal gives him that.

The Barca failure will hopefully give him a different sort of motivation than he had before. He was basically a Golden boy up until his Barca move where everything went his way, until it didn't. The adversity was likely too much, so I don't think he'd be too successful with another loan. Now he gets the reset he needs, and has learned the lesson (hopefully), and that is a good thing.

Edited by Obinna

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Tabla got some bad advice. By the time Davies left he was dominating MLS game in and game out as a 17 yr old. Tabla had flashes but I think should have stayed 1 more year in the MLS. I know it would be hard to say no to Barcelona but things are changing. Being an every day starter in the MLS is better for a player than being thrown on the stock pile of young prospects at a big European club.

Tabla would have been leaving the MLS this year instead of coming back

Edited by SpursFlu

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No guys, sorry. First, @SpursFlu you can't refuse to go to a major club when you are still developing. You take your chance, and go learn. It was not bench sitting for the 1st team, he was playing with the B team, and got lots of minutes. First in Spanish 2nd division, then in third tier. 

Then, @Obinna, that is not how it works. The step that is hardest to take is go to the top level and then try to stay there. And if you can't, you still take a loan. Look where his teammates are, most in top clubs in 1st tier, or in strong second tier clubs, but not stepping back so far, and running back home. Going back is an admission of failure, in a league where play may not benefit him, where being just good will not get him another chance.

For me, his career as a potentially top player is cooked and I highly doubt he'll ever come near to a similar chance, he did not cut it and seems to not want to stick it out. 

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No guys, sorry. First, @SpursFlu you can't refuse to go to a major club when you are still developing. You take your chance, and go learn. It was not bench sitting for the 1st team, he was playing with the B team, and got lots of minutes. First in Spanish 2nd division, then in third tier. 

Then, @Obinna, that is not how it works. The step that is hardest to take is go to the top level and then try to stay there. And if you can't, you still take a loan. Look where his teammates are, most in top clubs in 1st tier, or in strong second tier clubs, but not stepping back so far, and running back home. Going back is an admission of failure, in a league where play may not benefit him, where being just good will not get him another chance.

For me, his career as a potentially top player is cooked and I highly doubt he'll ever come near to a similar chance, he did not cut it and seems to not want to stick it out. 

You can actually do whatever you want. And I'm saying playing fulltime in the MLS is better than playing full time on someone's b team

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No guys, sorry. First, @SpursFlu you can't refuse to go to a major club when you are still developing. You take your chance, and go learn. It was not bench sitting for the 1st team, he was playing with the B team, and got lots of minutes. First in Spanish 2nd division, then in third tier. 

Then, @Obinna, that is not how it works. The step that is hardest to take is go to the top level and then try to stay there. And if you can't, you still take a loan. Look where his teammates are, most in top clubs in 1st tier, or in strong second tier clubs, but not stepping back so far, and running back home. Going back is an admission of failure, in a league where play may not benefit him, where being just good will not get him another chance.

For me, his career as a potentially top player is cooked and I highly doubt he'll ever come near to a similar chance, he did not cut it and seems to not want to stick it out. 

But he did fail. You may interpret that as an admission, but I see it as an acknowledgement. And I get what you're saying, maybe he should have stayed the course so that he could make a solid move, like some of his teammates.

Like I said though, that advice may be good for others, but perhaps not for him. There is not a one-size fits all when it comes to development. I just don't think Tabla's head was ever screwed on right and my fear is that things would have gone from bad to worse in Spain. Overall his Barca B play was positive, but his failure to make more of an impact at Albacate was a red flag, wasn't it? Not the first red flag with him, might I add.

I don't think a return to Montreal is the worst thing in the world. He essentially gets a do-over. I do think he'll try Europe again in a few years, but hopefully he does not rush it like before. He was so eager to get out of Montreal the first time, but it came way to quickly for him, seemingly.

Perhaps the fact he came running back home shows he didn't have the mental fortitude to succeed to begin with, so even if he did stick it out, as you suggest, it may have done more harm than good. I mean, we don't know for sure, but that's how it felt to me with Ballou. I honestly think he was better off coming home now than wasting more time abroad floundering about, Freddy Adu style. That's how I feel about it.

I am optimistic and hopng he finds whatever it is he needs, now that he is back in Montreal. I agree that any chance with another mega club is probably gone, but give it a few years and we may see him in Europe at a decent club, perhaps even playing at a similar level as some of his ex- Barca B teammates. Afterall, he is still only 20 years old.

Edited by Obinna

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6 hours ago, Norrin Radd said:

We are. Third one made his debut for Liverpool this week.

Yeah Millar is a hell of a prospect. Just not in that David/Davies mold that we expected Tabla to be in. However I do think Millar is still far from finished and is probably our best youngster outside those 2. I love his game. Works his ass off.

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5 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

These narratives about bad advice and a bad attitude...is this based on anything reported? Just curious how all this is accepted as fact.

I don't know about attitude off the field. On the field it was only a touch of aggressive attacking attitude he was missing, he did everything else right at Barça. 

For me he's gone backwards and killed off a large part of his football value. 

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25 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 For me he's gone backwards and killed off a large part of his football value. 

A necessary step backwards.

I really like Barcelona. They are my favourite Spanish club, but Tabla was going nowhere fast in that situation. Shame because I wanted him to succeed there, but it didn’t pan out the way we hoped. 

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

A necessary step backwards.

I really like Barcelona. They are my favourite Spanish club, but Tabla was going nowhere fast in that situation. Shame because I wanted him to succeed there, but it didn’t pan out the way we hoped. 

I hope it goes well for him I do. 

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Ok, to get the discussion back on topic, here's a video of David near the end of the match.  For context, he's probably covered the most distance up to that point among all the Gent players.

For me, easily the most impressive sequence I've ever seen of David and that includes his wonder goal against Cuba.  This play alone probably increased his transfer value by $5M.

The player he caught, Doku, is an 18 year old winger who is one of the fastest players in the Jupiler Pro League.  The other parts of his game haven't come together yet but the kid is known for his speed down the wing.

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/football/belgique/jupilerproleague/detail_jonathan-david-sprinte-97m-a-33km-h-en-fin-de-match-contre-anderlecht?id=10428508

Edited by Snowcrash

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2 hours ago, Snowcrash said:

Ok, to get the discussion back on topic, here's a video of David near the end of the match.  For context, he's probably covered the most distance up to that point among all the Gent players.

For me, easily the most impressive sequence I've ever seen of David and that includes his wonder goal against Cuba.  This play alone probably increased his transfer value by $5M.

The player he caught, Doku, is an 18 year old winger who is one of the fastest players in the Jupiler Pro League.  The other parts of his game haven't come together yet but the kid is known for his speed down the wing.

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/football/belgique/jupilerproleague/detail_jonathan-david-sprinte-97m-a-33km-h-en-fin-de-match-contre-anderlecht?id=10428508

Wow, good on the commentator, great for David. 

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49 minutes ago, Kent said:

For anyone else that was curious for context, Usain Bolt has topped out at 44km/h, with his best average over 100m being 37km/h.

Davies speed is equivalent to running a 10.3 100m and David’s speed is like running a 10.9 100m.

Davies could probably train and come close to Olympic level 100M running if he did only that.

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Davies speed is equivalent to running a 10.3 100m and David’s speed is like running a 10.9 100m.

Davies could probably train and come close to Olympic level 100M running if he did only that.

I'm curious how fast Liam Millar would chart, running in a straight line. Those three hitting a lightning counterattack could scare any defense in the world, I reckon.

Edited by SthMelbRed
typo

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19 hours ago, Obinna said:

But he did fail. You may interpret that as an admission, but I see it as an acknowledgement. And I get what you're saying, maybe he should have stayed the course so that he could make a solid move, like some of his teammates.

Like I said though, that advice may be good for others, but perhaps not for him. There is not a one-size fits all when it comes to development. I just don't think Tabla's head was ever screwed on right and my fear is that things would have gone from bad to worse in Spain. Overall his Barca B play was positive, but his failure to make more of an impact at Albacate was a red flag, wasn't it? Not the first red flag with him, might I add.

I don't think a return to Montreal is the worst thing in the world. He essentially gets a do-over. I do think he'll try Europe again in a few years, but hopefully he does not rush it like before. He was so eager to get out of Montreal the first time, but it came way to quickly for him, seemingly.

Perhaps the fact he came running back home shows he didn't have the mental fortitude to succeed to begin with, so even if he did stick it out, as you suggest, it may have done more harm than good. I mean, we don't know for sure, but that's how it felt to me with Ballou. I honestly think he was better off coming home now than wasting more time abroad floundering about, Freddy Adu style. That's how I feel about it.

I am optimistic and hopng he finds whatever it is he needs, now that he is back in Montreal. I agree that any chance with another mega club is probably gone, but give it a few years and we may see him in Europe at a decent club, perhaps even playing at a similar level as some of his ex- Barca B teammates. Afterall, he is still only 20 years old.

Many good points.  Just one thing we need to mention in Tabla's case.  His *situation* was very poorly managed by Montreal the first time around.  While Davies was getting minutes with Vancouver, Tabla was barely making the 18 for Montreal.  The official claim by Biello at the time, was something along the lines of "we're managing his minutes, we don't want to over expose him, and put too much on his shoulders at his age".  Meanwhile... Ontivero and Oduro were the dudes getting the starts and all the minutes!  Oduro and Ontivero!  I don't care who you are, how mature and composed you are, that is one difficult pill to swallow.  They weren't exactly lighting up the field with their performances either.  Tabla did more in one exhibition match than either those guys did all season.  Then along came Drogba, with his mentoring and advice.  That's where the relationship with IMFC and Canada seemed to sour. 

This kind of situation is very difficult for a teenager to deal with, it takes more than maturity and composure.  It was a confidence killer, he just wanted some minutes.  Normal for a kid who showed his kind of promise.  It'd be weird if he didn't get upset for not getting minutes.  He did everything he had to do at the lower levels, IMFC owed him the next step for the main stage but it never came.  We've seen it before with promising youngsters, and we'll see it again.  Very often, the make it or break it, with young talents is one coach that shows belief and can bring the best out of a young talent.  Biello was not that man.

 

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Very much doubt there is anything to this, but interesting all the same...

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-gent-transfer-news-17708312

Yeah, just a guy that read one of the interviews that @Snowcrash posted a page ago trying to make his own article out of it.

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19 hours ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Personally I don't rate Millar in the same tier as Davies and David. Hope he proves me wrong though.

I would agree that he's not currently on the same level as the other two and he probably doesn't have their ceiling but that should not exclude him from the list of 'great upcoming talents'. Even if he never becomes a regular at Liverpool, he has the potential to be a Premier League player for years. I hope Tabla gets back on track and we spend years debating which one of the two should be considered the third best player of their generation.

Anyway, off track again. Back to David.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportbible.com/football/news-the-21-players-with-more-goal-involvements-than-ronaldo-this-season-20200210.amp.html

David is one of 21 players in Europe who has more goal contributions than Cristiano Ronaldo this season.

David is on 17 goals and 10 assists for a total of 27, while Ronaldo has 23 goals and 3 assists for a total of 26.

Raul Jiminez is the only other concacaf player on the list. 20 goals and 9 assists for a total of 29 goal contributions.

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