Jonathan David

[SthMelbRed]

27 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I guess the question is whether David can score enough goals by the time the next window rolls around. It does seem somewhat unlikely, but I wouldn't exactly be shocked. 

For our sake it's probably better he moves next summer (if at all).

Joining a team midseason is not always easy, though it depends on the circumstance at the club more than anything, I guess.

If you're leaving a team that has shat the bed with its title defense and has crashed out of the Champions League at the group stage, and you're moving to a team that has it all to play for, domestically and in Europe, that move would feel like the easiest thing in the world.

[Macksam]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think there was another sentence fragment in there that you forgot to backpeddle on, @Obinna

Let me set you free. 

[costarg]

Am I the only one that isn't too stressed about David at Lille?  Sure their brand of football doesn't necessarily suit his style or compliment his stats as much as it could, however he's playing every week in a top team in a top league, as well as champions league. 

All I want to see is him get minutes every week and keep banging them in.  My biggest concern is him moving to RM, MC or Liverpool just to ride the bench for a few years.  Most important thing at his age is he keeps playing every week.  Sure it'd be great if he does in fact get time with them, but it's a massive risk.  

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, costarg said:

Am I the only one that isn't too stressed about David at Lille?  Sure their brand of football doesn't necessarily suit his style or compliment his stats as much as it could, however he's playing every week in a top team in a top league, as well as champions league. 

All I want to see is him get minutes every week and keep banging them in.  My biggest concern is him moving to RM, MC or Liverpool just to ride the bench for a few years.  Most important thing at his age is he keeps playing every week.  Sure it'd be great if he does in fact get time with them, but it's a massive risk.  

This.   We have a tendency to always focus on the next big thing.  Will Larin move to EPL?  Will David upgrade from Lille.  Hell, people are already plotting Tajon’s move away from Brugge even though he hasn’t yet kicked a ball for them.   

Lille may not play the most attractive flowing footy, but as you note - he is playing regularly and being productive for a top team (rough start aside) in a strong league.  Learning how to adapt to systems other than what he thrives in won’t be terrible for his development.  And he is still very (very) young - he has plenty of time to move to other teams and learn from other managers.  

I wouldn’t shed a tear if he moved to a team like Liverpool within the next 12 months, but I am also not going to be overly concerned if he spends another year or two honing his craft in France. He obviously still has aspects of his game he needs to work on and this level seems like a pretty decent one to do that.  Do you think a club like Liverpool would have stuck with him the way Gaultier did during his barren patch last year?  I doubt it.  

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

If you're leaving a team that has shat the bed with its title defense and has crashed out of the Champions League at the group stage, and you're moving to a team that has it all to play for, domestically and in Europe, that move would feel like the easiest thing in the world.

I meant it's not easy to integrate into a new team in the middle of the season. Of course the leaving part is easy!

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, costarg said:

Am I the only one that isn't too stressed about David at Lille?  Sure their brand of football doesn't necessarily suit his style or compliment his stats as much as it could, however he's playing every week in a top team in a top league, as well as champions league. 

All I want to see is him get minutes every week and keep banging them in.  My biggest concern is him moving to RM, MC or Liverpool just to ride the bench for a few years.  Most important thing at his age is he keeps playing every week.  Sure it'd be great if he does in fact get time with them, but it's a massive risk.  

Exactly. His resume is not better than Jovic's, who has done nothing at Real Madrid, it is like he stopped being a relevant striker altogether. 

In any case, he is on pace to score 18-20 this year (letting him take penalties may help too), plus whatever comes in Europe or the French Cup. As long as his personal curve is better than last year, and the team is decent (I think they'll qualify for Europa League, or maybe even top 3-4), his value will hold up.

What will really make a difference for our whole group is if we qualify for Qatar. 

[Aird25]

Only Mbappé and Ben Yedder have more Ligue 1 goals in 2021. He's been pretty darn good of late

[costarg]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This.   We have a tendency to always focus on the next big thing.  Will Larin move to EPL?  Will David upgrade from Lille.  Hell, people are already plotting Tajon’s move away from Brugge even though he hasn’t yet kicked a ball for them.   

Lille may not play the most attractive flowing footy, but as you note - he is playing regularly and being productive for a top team (rough start aside) in a strong league.  Learning how to adapt to systems other than what he thrives in won’t be terrible for his development.  And he is still very (very) young - he has plenty of time to move to other teams and learn from other managers.  

I wouldn’t shed a tear if he moved to a team like Liverpool within the next 12 months, but I am also not going to be overly concerned if he spends another year or two honing his craft in France. He obviously still has aspects of his game he needs to work on and this level seems like a pretty decent one to do that.  Do you think a club like Liverpool would have stuck with him the way Gaultier did during his barren patch last year?  I doubt it.  

Reminds me of a great comment made by @Obinna a while back.  I'd rather have players being important parts of winning teams, as opposed to fringe players on the best teams.

[frmr]

David starting with Burak up top. Weah on the wing.

[N1ckbr0wn]

Happy to see Weah finally getting the minutes I think he deserves. He’s super close with Jonny and I think the way he plays compliments him perfectly 

Edited September 29, 2021 by N1ckbr0wn

[VinceA]

Red Bull are handling Lille pretty well. Aaronson with an amazing ball to create a penalty for Salzburg. Adeyemi converts and Lille is down 1-0.

[Floortom]

David is way too weak in possession - he gets disposessed or falls with the slightest breeze. Really needs to improve there

[JamboAl]

Salzburg are a very decent side-Adeyemi won three penalties in their last Champions League match.  Not surprised they are giving Lille all they can handle.

EDIT: and Adeyemi just scored another one…

[canuckgbp]

He has looked better in the 2nd half so far. 

He did so well on that dribble but had a weak shot. Probably should of passed but I can understand his frustration. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by canuckgbp

[frmr]

Yeah, I have to disagree with the sentiment here and say I'd rather see him on a better team. Lille just aren't very good, their attack is uninspired and now their defense is pretty leaky as well. I'd rather him go to a team where he had to fight for a place but when he played, he played with better players and had more chances to score.

[nolando]

28 minutes ago, frmr said:

Yeah, I have to disagree with the sentiment here and say I'd rather see him on a better team. Lille just aren't very good, their attack is uninspired and now their defense is pretty leaky as well. I'd rather him go to a team where he had to fight for a place but when he played, he played with better players and had more chances to score.

This. And the same for Cavallini please.

[Floortom]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

Yeah, I have to disagree with the sentiment here and say I'd rather see him on a better team. Lille just aren't very good, their attack is uninspired and now their defense is pretty leaky as well. I'd rather him go to a team where he had to fight for a place but when he played, he played with better players and had more chances to score.

I guess it depends - I love JD and watch almost every one of his matches. I don't think he's good enough for a club like Liverpool right now.  There's too much he still needs to work on and he's not world class at anything (yet) and I worry he would get buried. Maybe somewhere in between Lille and Liverpool is doable but that's tough because Lille will need to get paid out. I guess Osimhen did it. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Floortom

[Aird25]

Has he played a single minute in the position he excelled in with Gent?

[Kadenge]

25 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Has he played a single minute in the position he excelled in with Gent?

No

[SthMelbRed]

9 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This.   We have a tendency to always focus on the next big thing.  Will Larin move to EPL?  Will David upgrade from Lille.  Hell, people are already plotting Tajon’s move away from Brugge even though he hasn’t yet kicked a ball for them.   

Lille may not play the most attractive flowing footy, but as you note - he is playing regularly and being productive for a top team (rough start aside) in a strong league.  Learning how to adapt to systems other than what he thrives in won’t be terrible for his development.  And he is still very (very) young - he has plenty of time to move to other teams and learn from other managers.  

I wouldn’t shed a tear if he moved to a team like Liverpool within the next 12 months, but I am also not going to be overly concerned if he spends another year or two honing his craft in France. He obviously still has aspects of his game he needs to work on and this level seems like a pretty decent one to do that.  Do you think a club like Liverpool would have stuck with him the way Gaultier did during his barren patch last year?  I doubt it.  

If he'd gone to Liverpool, he'd have spent the first few months training and learning the system before being introduced slowly into the first team. Robertson hardly kicked a ball before Christmas in his first season at Liverpool. By the end of that season, he was being touted as one of the world's best LBs. Even a world-class signing like Fabinho hardly played for 2-3 months before stepping in, making the position his own, and playing a massive part in a 98-point season and a European Cup triumph.

Lille bought him and threw him straight in despite him having next to no pre-season to acclimatise to the new system. And this was only a few months after he'd lost his mother at a very young age. I want him to leave Lille for a number of reasons....playing style, frustration with seeing some of the players with whom he has to play, etc. However, a big part of it is also that I don't think they seem to have actually done all that much to help him last season. A better club would have protected him in those early months rather than just throwing him to the wolves.

[Kadenge]

17 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

If he'd gone to Liverpool, he'd have spent the first few months training and learning the system before being introduced slowly into the first team. Robertson hardly kicked a ball before Christmas in his first season at Liverpool. By the end of that season, he was being touted as one of the world's best LBs. Even a world-class signing like Fabinho hardly played for 2-3 months before stepping in, making the position his own, and playing a massive part in a 98-point season and a European Cup triumph.

Lille bought him and threw him straight in despite him having next to no pre-season to acclimatise to the new system. And this was only a few months after he'd lost his mother at a very young age. I want him to leave Lille for a number of reasons....playing style, frustration with seeing some of the players with whom he has to play, etc. However, a big part of it is also that I don't think they seem to have actually done all that much to help him last season. A better club would have protected him in those early months rather than just throwing him to the wolves.

I agree with most of this, although Gaultier did stick with him consistently during his slow start.  Partly because David was doing a lot of positive things, other than scoring and he mentioned in one interview that David was clinical in practice. So he knew  it was just a matter of time before he emerged. The 30 M euro transfer fee also helped in that respect.

[El Diego]

7 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Has he played a single minute in the position he excelled in with Gent?

He was at his best at Gent as the attacking mid in a 442 diamond, orchestrating counters with two strikers ahead of him to combine with. He's played as a support striker in a flat 442 at Lille numerous times, but there are less players ahead of him and Lille play a completely different style than Gent did.

[SthMelbRed]

4 hours ago, El Diego said:

He was at his best at Gent as the attacking mid in a 442 diamond, orchestrating counters with two strikers ahead of him to combine with. He's played as a support striker in a flat 442 at Lille numerous times, but there are less players ahead of him and Lille play a completely different style than Gent did.

Liverpool almost always play 4-3-3, with the 9 (Bobby Firmino) often dropping deep to orchestrate play, while one of the two non-Fabinho midfielders running beyond him. Just sayin'.....

[Unnamed Trialist]

Well since Barça was getting bombed (worse I've seen since maybe mid 90s), I turned to Lille, and David was quickly subbed out. So I actually got to sit out 15 m of Champions League football. And I am a better man for it.

I did get to watch both Bamba and Ikone on attack for a bit there, up either side, deciding it was not worth continuing with the proposition of looking at the opposing team's goal, and playing back so the keeper could play with it a bit more; or dumbly losing it with clear passes to keep it in possession. Maddening players. I would not have them on my team (speaking hypothetically of course).

[narduch]

David starting up top with Yilmaz. 

Match at 11am ET