Jonathan David

[frmr]

5 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

"One of the more special clubs in the world" - only a Liverpool supporter could write this with a straight face. Your post is exactly what I'm talking about.

Sorry but how are they not? They are European royalty, one of the best supported clubs in the world, they have a remarkable past with the Hillsborough disaster and its still ongoing legacy, arguably the best atmosphere in England, a legendary stadium. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you need throw objectivity out the window. I don't like Man United but I acknowledge that they are also a very special club. Same with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Celtic, etc. You've basically offered a childish insult that is not based in logic or objectivity and you provide no reasons as to why they are not a special club. So yeah, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match. Anyone who knows anything about football and doesn't resort to "my dad is stronger than your dad" mental tactics will acknowledge that Liverpool are one of the top destinations in the world.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

I wouldn't think David was reacting to the style, it has been great to watch Liverpool over the last few years (if you are not playing against them) 

One of the problems other fans have with Liverpool is that the club does seem to claim a special status, even down to victimhood, when their fans were responsible for Heysel and that all followed that.

Just giving the perception.

So if you were a big fan of one of their rivals, you would not like Liverpool, the club. 

 

No question they are one of the most successful clubs in English history and one the most recognizable in the world.  But then my deepest dislike lies elsewhere. Unless we are talking 2006. 

 

My worry about David going to Liverpool right now, if any of this is true, is that he might not play that much. 

[dyslexic nam]

14 minutes ago, frmr said:

Sorry but how are they not? They are European royalty, one of the best supported clubs in the world, they have a remarkable past with the Hillsborough disaster and its still ongoing legacy, arguably the best atmosphere in England, a legendary stadium. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you need throw objectivity out the window. I don't like Man United but I acknowledge that they are also a very special club. Same with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Celtic, etc. You've basically offered a childish insult that is not based in logic or objectivity and you provide no reasons as to why they are not a special club. So yeah, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match. Anyone who knows anything about football and doesn't resort to "my dad is stronger than your dad" mental tactics will acknowledge that Liverpool are one of the top destinations in the world.

I don’t have a horse in the race but I think the issue hinges on just how “special” Liverpool fans think the club really is.  If you are saying it is a great club but really no better or more unique than 4 or 5 other English clubs, 3 or 4 Spanish clubs, a couple of German clubs, etc (all of which have their own long and storied history) than I doubt anyone really disagrees.  Everyone knows that are a global brand with a long legacy.  

The issue arises when fans project a sense that even amongst that elite group of big clubs, they are still just that bit extra special.   To everyone that follows a club with its own story and fan base and identity etc, that seems a bit dubious.  

[The Real Marc]

33 minutes ago, frmr said:

Sorry but how are they not? They are European royalty, one of the best supported clubs in the world, they have a remarkable past with the Hillsborough disaster and its still ongoing legacy, arguably the best atmosphere in England, a legendary stadium. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you need throw objectivity out the window. I don't like Man United but I acknowledge that they are also a very special club. Same with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Celtic, etc. You've basically offered a childish insult that is not based in logic or objectivity and you provide no reasons as to why they are not a special club. So yeah, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match. Anyone who knows anything about football and doesn't resort to "my dad is stronger than your dad" mental tactics will acknowledge that Liverpool are one of the top destinations in the world.

Well if Hillsborough makes you special then Bradford City must be one-of-a-kind. Can you understand just how classless it is to keep referencing Hillsborough as something that makes your club more remarkable than others? Wow. 

The fact that you think your club is more special than a Lille, or a Palace, or a Morecambe, or a Gijon, or a Jablonec, or a Brescia or anyone else's club encapsulates everything I was posting about, and everything that makes people cringe when Liverpool fans insist on how unique they are - when, in reality, they're just another big club like all the others. (And good for them! I'm sure it is fun and rewarding.)

That you can't see that is not a testament to your love of the club, just immaturity and a lack of respect and understanding about what it means to follow a club, big or small.

Edited August 2, 2021 by The Real Marc

[frmr]

4 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Well if Hillsborough makes you special then Bradford must be one-of-a-kind. Can you understand just how classless it is to keep referencing Hillsborough as something that makes your club more remarkable than others?

The fact that you  think your club is more special than a Lille, or a Palace, or a Morecambe, or a Gijon, or a Jablonec, or a Brescia or anyone else's club encapsulates everything I was posting about, and everything that makes people cringe when Liverpool fans insist on being different than the other big clubs whose air they breathe.

That you can't see that is not a testament to your love of the club, just immaturity and a lack of respect.

Those clubs don't have the success, history or the global support of Liverpool. And yes, I'm referencing Hillsborough because it is an extremely important part of Liverpool's history and one that has shaped the club and galvanized the support. If you honestly don't see the difference between Crystal Palace and Liverpool, then... cool.

[frmr]

12 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don’t have a horse in the race but I think the issue hinges on just how “special” Liverpool fans think the club really is.  If you are saying it is a great club but really no better or more unique than 4 or 5 other English clubs, 3 or 4 Spanish clubs, a couple of German clubs, etc (all of which have their own long and storied history) than I doubt anyone really disagrees.  Everyone knows that are a global brand with a long legacy.  

The issue arises when fans project a sense that even amongst that elite group of big clubs, they are still just that bit extra special.   To everyone that follows a club with its own story and fan base and identity etc, that seems a bit dubious.  

Yeah that is what I'm saying, essentially, although I would put them in the top 5 in the world, rather than top 10-15 like you are suggesting. Of course I'm slightly biased because I'm a supporter but I would also put United, who I hate, in that same bracket, and pay the same respects to their support, history and stadium. I don't think Liverpool is any more special than United, Real Madrid or Barcelona. I would put them all in the same bracket, and like you said, I don't think most reasonable people would disagree with that. Ahem, most people.

[EJsens1]

21 minutes ago, frmr said:

Those clubs don't have the success, history or the global support of Liverpool. And yes, I'm referencing Hillsborough because it is an extremely important part of Liverpool's history and one that has shaped the club and galvanized the support. If you honestly don't see the difference between Crystal Palace and Liverpool, then... cool.

Yeah you’ve expressed your point quite well.  I agree.  Some teams in sports are more special in a sense.  Doesn’t mean their fans are better people or that their organization treats its employees better.  Does anyone think the Kansas City Royals are the same level as the Yankees or the Charlotte Hornets are on the same footing as the Lakers?  Whatever the reasons there is a difference.  If David were to transfer to Liverpool over Crystal Palace, anyone arguing that it’s the ‘same’ is frankly wrong

Edited August 2, 2021 by EJsens1

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

"One of the more special clubs in the world" - only a Liverpool supporter could write this with a straight face. Your post is exactly what I'm talking about.

There maybe aren't half a dozen, less than 10 anyways, more gloried in all of club football. 

[TOcanadafan]

16 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There maybe aren't half a dozen, less than 10 anyways, more gloried in all of club football. 

I have no stake in the game and I’d say they are #2 in England after Man U for history / winning / global brand.  
 

And I remember David (and maybe his agent?) handled the entire transfer saga to Lille pretty poorly - the Liverpool comment wasn’t smart I was thinking at the time.  

Edited August 2, 2021 by TOcanadafan

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

I have no stake in the game and I’d say they are #2 in England after Man U for history / winning / global brand.  

What was David thinking? 

Funny when you realise not too long ago he never imagined he had a legit chance to be considered by a major club, so he just spoke his mind guilelessly. 

Back on track: I agree with many here that there are a lot of other equivalent or even stronger clubs where we'd enjoy his play a lot more and he'd be more effective as well. That Lille style, attacking I mean, not defending, is so dull and irritating.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[The Real Marc]

Gloried? Successful? Rich? Big? Global brand? Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. And yup. Not arguing that Liverpool aren't a bigger club than Palace. Not arguing that they aren't one of the most known clubs in football. Or that a move to Liverpool wouldn't be a step up from Lille - one that I'd love to see him make if the opportunity arose.

There's a nuance here that I'm likely not communicating effectively but also that in my experience many Liverpool fans in particular just don't seem to get.

My commentary was on the Liverpool fan culture that blinds their self-awareness and which frmr keeps reinforcing above.

Mistaking being big and rich and successful and well-known with being on a different level of fandom than other clubs, making their relationship, their experience, their mission, their club and their lives just a bit more special, exceptional, extraordinary, unique compared to others shows one of two things - either a) fundamental misunderstanding of football (frankly, it reeks of "new fan"), or b) a lack of respect for the game that, in my opinion, other big club's fans are less prone to. I can't imagine real Barca fans every saying things like this, though I might be wrong.

The magic of football is the relationship that fans develop with their club. That magic is no more or less magical because your club is big and rich and known and competing in Europe than it is if your club is small and skint and nameless and fighting relegation to the regional leaves. Maybe it's watching your club buy global talent to be champions of Europe. Or loan keeper Jimmy Glass knock in a last-minute goal that keeps your club full-time. Or your club go from Serie B to Champions League in ten years. Or watching your neighbours get relegated. Or playing the big clubs. Or seeing local kids make a career of it and move on to a bigger club. (Heck, I bet Jack Grealish thinks that Villa are just a little bit special and they had most of their success when Queen Victoria was alive!)

Regardless, it's cheesy to write but the love between a fan and their club is nearly divine - the common Liverpool fan view that their club and their love is just a bit more divine than anyone else's is smirk-worthy at best, and (from a rich club with foreign owners and lots of foreign fans that spends lots of money and pays big wages and wants to entrench their position to maximise success and profit - no different than all of the big global clubs), is obnoxious at worst.

Edited August 2, 2021 by The Real Marc

[CanadianSoccerFan]

The Liverpool front 3 are all 29 and the club clearly dipped in form last year.  For positions requiring pace, things don't get better at that age, they can only get worse.

[Cheeta]

Couldn't care less about Liverpool.  For now.  And still think Lille is a dead end for David.

But, if LFC put out 10s of millions of pounds for a Canadian striker that'll be the biggest footie news in Canada after the WNT win the Olympic gold.  Hands down, sorry 'Phonzie, that's the truth.

Oh, and I'm not worried 1% about the man making the jump to the EPL.  Because he's a hard-knocks winner.  He'll MAKE it a success. 

Mark my words.  Do it!

 

 

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What was David thinking? 

Funny when you realise not too long ago he never imagined he had a legit chance to be considered by a major club, so he just spoke his mind guilelessly. 

He disrespected them because he thought he would never be able to land at a major club, ever? 

I wouldn't worry so much about this particular quote, it was just banter, nothing more. Even the people running the show at Liverpool don't think much of it considering they are after him. 

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

42 minutes ago, Macksam said:

He disrespected them because he thought he would never be able to land at a major club, ever? 

I wouldn't worry so much about this particular quote, it was just banter, nothing more. Even the people running the show at Liverpool don't think much of it considering they are after him. 

 

If he ended up there he could end up like Brian Clough at Leeds (not very well) or like Phil Esposito going from Boston to New York and Brad Park from New York to Boston.  When told he was being traded Espo told Don Cherry if you tell me New York I'll jump out of that window (hotel high rise).  Conversely Brad Park wrote in his book (before the trade) how much he detested the hated Bruins.  Both players worked out well in their new cities.

[CanadaFan123]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What was David thinking? 

Funny when you realise not too long ago he never imagined he had a legit chance to be considered by a major club, so he just spoke his mind guilelessly. 

Back on track: I agree with many here that there are a lot of other equivalent or even stronger clubs where we'd enjoy his play a lot more and he'd be more effective as well. That Lille style, attacking I mean, not defending, is so dull and irritating.

In that same interview they’re talking about him going to Manchester United so I doubt this was the case. Just a young player making a silly comment.

[frmr]

For any podcast listeners, the latest podcast from the Liverpool Echo's Blood Red is about Jonathan David and the link to Liverpool. It's worth a listen. They seem to think it makes sense and he would be a logical fit for how they play.

 

[Kadenge]

Jonathan David pursuit suggests Liverpool may not be looking for a Roberto Firmino clone - Liverpool.com

I wonder if this move has legs...The 4-4-2/ dual strikers may be making a comeback in Europe with last season's performances of Inter, Lille and Atletico as well as Leicester. Interesting take on David's style vs Firmino

[El Diego]

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1423405024068112390

 

Interesting one, this. Luiz Araujo to Atlanta United?

[SthMelbRed]

Late to the party on this one, but here goes....

1. Jonathan David signing for Liverpool would be incredible for the player, who'd be at one of the biggest clubs in the world, working with one of the best 2-3 managers in world football, and playing with some of the best attacking players in the world, from whom he could learn for a year, or two, before taking over their spots. It'd be incredible for the club, because I truly believe that JD could form a part of the next great Liverpool attacking trident with Diego Jota and Harvey Elliot. It'd be incredible for me, as it would bring my club and country passions together for the first time ever.

2. Liverpool ARE better than other clubs. The club is better, the stadium is better, the fans are better. Jurgen Klopp is the best football manager in the world this century. Mo Salah is only behind Messi and C Ronaldo as footballing global icons. Other clubs have scoffed at the notion that Liverpool are more special than them in the past. Barcelona did it in '19. PSG did it in '18. Real Madrid did it in '09. Chelsea did it in '05. They all walked away in no doubt that Anfield kicks the shit out of their pathetic grounds for magic and atmosphere. Anybody that refuses to acknowledge these truths, like The Real Marc, are just pathetic losers who are jealous that their shitty, little clubs don't measure up! Up the fucking REDS!!!!!

3. Carry on discussing the latest developments in Jonathan David's footballing journey.

 

😁

[frmr]

59 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Late to the party on this one, but here goes....

1. Jonathan David signing for Liverpool would be incredible for the player, who'd be at one of the biggest clubs in the world, working with one of the best 2-3 managers in world football, and playing with some of the best attacking players in the world, from whom he could learn for a year, or two, before taking over their spots. It'd be incredible for the club, because I truly believe that JD could form a part of the next great Liverpool attacking trident with Diego Jota and Harvey Elliot. It'd be incredible for me, as it would bring my club and country passions together for the first time ever.

2. Liverpool ARE better than other clubs. The club is better, the stadium is better, the fans are better. Jurgen Klopp is the best football manager in the world this century. Mo Salah is only behind Messi and C Ronaldo as footballing global icons. Other clubs have scoffed at the notion that Liverpool are more special than them in the past. Barcelona did it in '19. PSG did it in '18. Real Madrid did it in '09. Chelsea did it in '05. They all walked away in no doubt that Anfield kicks the shit out of their pathetic grounds for magic and atmosphere. Anybody that refuses to acknowledge these truths, like The Real Marc, are just pathetic losers who are jealous that their shitty, little clubs don't measure up! Up the fucking REDS!!!!!

3. Carry on discussing the latest developments in Jonathan David's footballing journey.

 

😁

Basically this.

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

Late to the party on this one, but here goes....

1. Jonathan David signing for Liverpool would be incredible for the player, who'd be at one of the biggest clubs in the world, working with one of the best 2-3 managers in world football, and playing with some of the best attacking players in the world, from whom he could learn for a year, or two, before taking over their spots. It'd be incredible for the club, because I truly believe that JD could form a part of the next great Liverpool attacking trident with Diego Jota and Harvey Elliot. It'd be incredible for me, as it would bring my club and country passions together for the first time ever.

2. Liverpool ARE better than other clubs. The club is better, the stadium is better, the fans are better. Jurgen Klopp is the best football manager in the world this century. Mo Salah is only behind Messi and C Ronaldo as footballing global icons. Other clubs have scoffed at the notion that Liverpool are more special than them in the past. Barcelona did it in '19. PSG did it in '18. Real Madrid did it in '09. Chelsea did it in '05. They all walked away in no doubt that Anfield kicks the shit out of their pathetic grounds for magic and atmosphere. Anybody that refuses to acknowledge these truths, like The Real Marc, are just pathetic losers who are jealous that their shitty, little clubs don't measure up! Up the fucking REDS!!!!!

3. Carry on discussing the latest developments in Jonathan David's footballing journey.

 

😁

I remember watching a match once, I think Benfica was playing at Liverpool in the CL and literally, the 1000 or so Benfica supporters drowned out the 40,000 Liverpool supporters with ease, it was fascinating really. I also remember watching Dortmund supporters do the same to Man City fans in the Etihad a few years back, and Sevilla fans doing the same to United supporters in Old Trafford as well in 2018. I guess the lack of true Ultras render the English docile and quiet, they just can't compete brah. 🤫

Edited August 6, 2021 by Macksam

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Luiz Araujo to the MLS for not a huge amount in my mind.

Shame - plays a more complete game than a lot of the other Lille midfielders.

[frmr]

He also looked to shoot whenever he had a sight of goal so in terms of David's success, I'm not heartbroken that he's leaving. I did like watching him but I'd be happy with letting someone else like Lihadji or a new recruit take that position and hope they're a little less selfish and better at interplay. Lihadji gave the assist for David's first goal last season.

[Colliedor]

I personally think Araujo was another player with some bad tunnel vision. Not the greatest distributor either imo.