Jonathan David

[Corazon]

A lot of people have extreme bias for the Premier League but reality is that in the past 15 to 20 years, Spanish teams have dominated in Europe.  As @Obinna stated, its really about splitting hairs between the two though.  4th place Chelsea took our 2nd place Madrid and 7th place Villareal just took out 2nd place Man U.  I think what many fair-weather fans think is that Spain is just Barcelona, Real Madrid and occasionally now Atletico Madrid but the depth in Spain shows every year in the Europa League as well.

In this century, Spain have won 28 of the 86 titles while England will reach 21 this weekend.  In terms of runners up, both Spain and England are equal with 8.  Then there is a big drop to the country with 3rd most appearances titles and runners up with Germany at 9 & 4 respectively.  

Spain have had 8 clubs reach a European final this century while England has had only 7.  Both leagues are top quality but to say one is better than the other just shows bias in my opinion.  I don't think we are going to see Madrid and Barcelona dominate the Champions League anymore like they have the past decade but the depth will still be there in Spain.

As for David, Real Madrid would be a massive step for him.  But as @Unnamed Trialist mentioned, it really could be an ideal landing spot for him.  Besides Benzema, they really lacked finishing all season.  There is no reason to think that JD could not have been involved with this years squad on rotation with Vinicius, Asensio, Rodrygo.  Aside from Benzema, no one on Madrid scored more than 7 goals in all competitions.  There is no doubt in my mind that JD could have played in 30 to 40 games for Madrid this season and been the 2nd leading scorer on the team.  

Edited May 27, 2021 by Corazon

[Macksam]

 

14 hours ago, narduch said:

Believe TSN now has La Liga rights too

 

Nice speculation on TSN's part, counter Sportsnet's Bayern/Davies content with Real Madrid/David.

Anyhow, I think a move to Madrid would be awesome for David. The style of play would suit him and he'd link up well with his teammates. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, Corazon said:

A lot of people have extreme bias for the Premier League but reality is that in the past 15 to 20 years, Spanish teams have dominated in Europe.  As @Obinna stated, its really about splitting hairs between the two though.  4th place Chelsea took our 2nd place Madrid and 7th place Villareal just took out 2nd place Man U...

We all have our biases but I agree about it being very close overall.  Co-efficients take into consideration all the European games not just head-to-head or finals (though there is extra points etc. for that latter)  So if you are looking for a more complete comparison of the country's top teams in the last 5 years, you can look in worse places.

  

1	England	14.928	20.071	22.642	18.571	23.928	100.140	3/7
2	Spain	20.142	19.714	19.571	18.928	19.357	97.712	1/7
3	Italy	14.250	17.333	12.642	14.928	16.285	75.438	7
4	Germany	14.571	9.857	15.214	18.714	15.214	73.570	7
5	France	14.416	11.500	10.583	11.666	7.916	56.081	6

 

For David, I want him to be settled and playing.  You know what we were saying 6 months ago about his Lille move. I could do without that lag again.  If he moves, it needs to be where he is guaranteed to start for me. 

[BearcatSA]

Great conclusion to his season, great talent, and committed early to us without leaving us hanging to explore other NT possibilities.  He checks off all the smiley face boxes for me.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

If the ESL and covid situation has shown us anything, it is that Spanish football is a house of cards. Real has no money, Barca has no money. Those two clubs get the absolute lion’s share of the tv money, but due to years of irresponsible spending, they’re essentially broke. Compare that to England who have a much more even distribution of tv rights money, by far the richest club owners in the world, by far the biggest global brand as a league, the benefit of being an English speaking league, the highest number of “big clubs”. There’s a reason Spanish clubs double downed on the ESL: they need the money. Real and Barca know that they can’t compete with English clubs over the long haul, covid exacerbated that fact which is very likely why they tried to push it through at that time. English clubs were much more tentative because they have the cash cow of the EPL and extremely rich owners. English football will only continue to get bigger and bigger, while the Spanish giants are taking in water.

And you post this after the team that came 7th in Spain beat the 2nd place team in EPL in a European final? I mean, pick the right day for the pie-in-the-sky stuff, don't you think?

Just answer this: what EPL teams have bigger debt problems than either Real Madrid or Barça? And which are ranked higher in terms of value of global brand, according to the Forbes 2021 report?

Also: if, as you argue, that ESL is a sign that teams are desperate for money and in trouble, why were the majority from EPL? And exactly how did renouncing the project solve that desperate state of affairs?

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And which are ranked higher in terms of value of global brand, according to the Forbes 2021 report?

I have a tough time taking that report seriously a lot of the time. 

I mean West Ham United are still in the top 20, for goodness' sakes. 

[costarg]

33 minutes ago, Corazon said:

A lot of people have extreme bias for the Premier League but reality is that in the past 15 to 20 years, Spanish teams have dominated in Europe.  As @Obinna stated, its really about splitting hairs between the two though.  4th place Chelsea took our 2nd place Madrid and 7th place Villareal just took out 2nd place Man U.  I think what many fair-weather fans think is that Spain is just Barcelona, Real Madrid and occasionally now Atletico Madrid but the depth in Spain shows every year in the Europa League as well.

In this century, Spain have won 28 of the 86 titles while England will reach 21 this weekend.  In terms of runners up, both Spain and England are equal with 8.  Then there is a big drop to the country with 3rd most appearances titles and runners up with Germany at 9 & 4 respectively.  

Spain have had 8 clubs reach a European final this century while England has had only 7.  Both leagues are top quality but to say one is better than the other just shows bias in my opinion.  I don't think we are going to see Madrid and Barcelona dominate the Champions League anymore like they have the past decade but the depth will still be there in Spain.

As for David, Real Madrid would be a massive step for him.  But as @Unnamed Trialist mentioned, it really could be an ideal landing spot for him.  Besides Benzema, they really lacked finishing all season.  There is no reason to think that JD could not have been involved with this years squad on rotation with Vinicius, Asensio, Rodrygo.  Aside from Benzema, no one on Madrid scored more than 7 goals in all competitions.  There is no doubt in my mind that JD could have played in 30 to 40 games for Madrid this season and been the 2nd leading scorer on the team.  

There is more to it than that.  A PL season is way harder physically speaking than playing in la Liga.  I guarantee a different result if yesterday's match was played in January.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, costarg said:

There is more to it than that.  A PL season is way harder physically speaking than playing in la Liga.  I guarantee a different result if yesterday's match was played in January.

 

It's not harder physically. They are just technically worse, so they lose the ball more and have to run around more, that is all. It's like Cruyff said, "if you make the ball run then you don't have to", something Manchester United did not get at all last night, waiting for their wings to run past someone and unable to pass their way through a defence. 

[cronaldo7]

Ignoring all the league vs league discussion..  I am generally an EPL fan (my parents are British) but I think La Liga’s record in big competitions speaks for itself. Farmer League narrative about Spanish league, French, German etc is rubbish imo. 

Back to Jonathan... if these rumours are true I think it’s fantastic for our program and for bringing greater attention to football in Canada. We are a niche group of people who follow the program based off unique circumstances and reasons. To get this thing going mainstream within our country we need more news like this (as superficial as that is, that’s society for ya ;))

 

Davies has paved the way and these massive clubs don’t look at Canadian players as “not fitting in with their image and identity”. David to the biggest club of all only keeps this momentum and ripple effect going.  
 

I know this is just a rumour and football rumours in particular aren’t worth much but things are changin’ and we have 2 lovely lads leading the way for this generation.

[Kadenge]

Canada's 'other' young men's soccer star deserves way more attention | CBC Sports

According to advanced stats tracked on FBref, David is the best forward in the top 5 Euro leagues at pressuring opponents in his attacking third of the field.  Scouts are looking at more than his goal production this year. Jon has been a success and delivered at every level he has played.  I dont think any club is beyond the realm.

[TGAA_Star]

52 minutes ago, Macksam said:

 

Nice speculation on TSN's part, counter Sportsnet's Bayern/Davies content with Real Madrid/David.

Anyhow, I think a move to Madrid would be awesome for David. The style of play would suit him and he'd link up well with his teammates. 

 

Yeah sure his brand and his overall stock in the world game would grow even more than Davies especially if he were to end up with Real Madrid. Think about the teammates he would have there and getting the chance to go up against players like Messi on a daily basis in La Liga, it would be perfect sure.

But I think either staying in Ligue 1 or going to the Premier League would do him wonders.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

Yeah sure his brand and his overall stock in the world game would grow even more than Davies especially if he were to end up with Real Madrid. Think about the teammates he would have there and getting the chance to go up against players like Messi on a daily basis in La Liga, it would be perfect sure.

But I think either staying in Ligue 1 or going to the Premier League would do him wonders.

So he's staying? What a relief!

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

There is more to it than that.  A PL season is way harder physically speaking than playing in la Liga.  I guarantee a different result if yesterday's match was played in January.

 

I just want those 3 hours of my life back.

(OK, it wasn't that bad but still.  Want them back).

[archer21]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

A lot of people have extreme bias for the Premier League but reality is that in the past 15 to 20 years, Spanish teams have dominated in Europe.  As @Obinna stated, its really about splitting hairs between the two though.  4th place Chelsea took our 2nd place Madrid and 7th place Villareal just took out 2nd place Man U.  I think what many fair-weather fans think is that Spain is just Barcelona, Real Madrid and occasionally now Atletico Madrid but the depth in Spain shows every year in the Europa League as well.

In this century, Spain have won 28 of the 86 titles while England will reach 21 this weekend.  In terms of runners up, both Spain and England are equal with 8.  Then there is a big drop to the country with 3rd most appearances titles and runners up with Germany at 9 & 4 respectively.  

Spain have had 8 clubs reach a European final this century while England has had only 7.  Both leagues are top quality but to say one is better than the other just shows bias in my opinion.  I don't think we are going to see Madrid and Barcelona dominate the Champions League anymore like they have the past decade but the depth will still be there in Spain.

As for David, Real Madrid would be a massive step for him.  But as @Unnamed Trialist mentioned, it really could be an ideal landing spot for him.  Besides Benzema, they really lacked finishing all season.  There is no reason to think that JD could not have been involved with this years squad on rotation with Vinicius, Asensio, Rodrygo.  Aside from Benzema, no one on Madrid scored more than 7 goals in all competitions.  There is no doubt in my mind that JD could have played in 30 to 40 games for Madrid this season and been the 2nd leading scorer on the team.  

I will concede that I definitely have EPL bias, as I watch the league much more than any other league. And I know that Spanish teams have done very well in Europe. What I meant with my comment about EPL being stronger was basically that the top third/half of each league is similar in quality, but the bottom half/third is much stronger in the EPL. I’d like to think that a team like Fulham wouldn’t be relegating from La Liga (although this could be my bias). Again, not that this means much for David, just wanted to clarify that. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Almost true. 

2001 UEFA cup.  Liverpool beat Alaves on a golden goal.  I think it sticks in my head because of the golden goal and it was their first post-Heysel ban trophy in Europe. 

True, I missed that. It was a great match and I remember it well too. Alavés had a pink shirt on that had the tiny names of I am not sure who. They were basically a recently promoted lower tier club, now they've had a few decades of top flight experience.  It was probably one of the wildest finals of the past 20 years, with goals and a lot of excitement, and an own goal for the winner.

Thanks.

All my ranting about EPL is just trash talk, I get irritated when someone comes on the board and says David should not go to this certain club because Real Madrid has not been good for a decade--when they won three Champions in a row, in the last half decade pretty well.

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

I just want those 3 hours of my life back.

(OK, it wasn't that bad but still.  Want them back).

For me the only thing good about it was wanting one team to win and the other to lose. Other than that, the best quality of the final were the penalties, taken expertly with incredible class under terrible pressure. 

[Dr.Dre]

Maignan to AC Milan is official. 

[narduch]

Lille could draw Milan in the UCL.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 minutes ago, narduch said:

Lille could draw Milan in the UCL.

Does Lille benefit from being France 1 and get put in a higher pot, thus avoiding some of the tougher teams? Not sure how it works.

[ADP10]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Does Lille benefit from being France 1 and get put in a higher pot, thus avoiding some of the tougher teams? Not sure how it works.

yup the champions of each top league get into pot 1

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Does Lille benefit from being France 1 and get put in a higher pot, thus avoiding some of the tougher teams? Not sure how it works.

Yes they do. I only looked it up because someone else in the thread mentioned it. I had figured they would be a low seed due to not doing much in Europe over the past 5 years.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2021.html

Edited May 27, 2021 by narduch

[JamboAl]

11 minutes ago, narduch said:

Yes they do. I only looked it up because someone else in the thread mentioned it. I had figured they would be a low seed due to not doing much in Europe over the past 5 years.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2021.html

Pot 2 looks frightening.

[Unnamed Trialist]

42 minutes ago, narduch said:

Yes they do. I only looked it up because someone else in the thread mentioned it. I had figured they would be a low seed due to not doing much in Europe over the past 5 years.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2021.html

Lille has the lowest coefficient of all. 

Besiktas played CL qualifiers last year, PAOK beat them in the 2nd round. This year they go straight into group stage.

I still don't get how these pots are basically full but teams are going through qualifying rounds still to get into the group stage. Maybe it is what I heard, like just two teams coming through the preliminaries, making it tougher for us to see Rangers or Red Star in a group stage vs. the rest of the Canadians. 

Regardless, they avoid some tough teams but will have at least one tough side from Pot 2, similar level teams from 3 (thinking Ajax really was the best team they faced all year), and mostly accessible teams from Pot 4. 

By making the group stage they get just over 15 million euros.

Every win in the group stage they get 2.7 million, every draw, just under a million. If they make the round of 16, that will mean usually 9-10 points, so another 10 million at least, plus the almost 10 million euros for making the 16 itself. Totals: making round of 16 leaves them with 35 million euros, or over the value of their highest value player.

That is the dilemna, sell for cash now; keep to fight for the CL result.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I still don't get how these pots are basically full but teams are going through qualifying rounds still to get into the group stage. Maybe it is what I heard, like just two teams coming through the preliminaries, making it tougher for us to see Rangers or Red Star in a group stage vs. the rest of the Canadians. 

I think the guy that runs this site assumes the higher seeds advance through the qualifying. So its possible some teams may change.

However Lille is for sure Pot 1.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

I think the guy that runs this site assumes the higher seeds advance through the qualifying. So its possible some teams may change.

However Lille is for sure Pot 1.

I think they are sending off a lot of prelim round teams to the new UEFA competition, which I cannot figure out yet. And maybe, as I thought I heard, few teams gaining the spot through the qualifying rounds. It used to be Spain 4 had to qualify, I thought, so they are in fact introducing rules protective of the big leagues and historically strong teams, in the spirit somewhat of the Super League.

I personally prefer to see more teams coming through quaifying for group stage, since it is a long process, alters your pre-season plans, and you make a huge effort for low chances of success. And then you get good sides and surprises--Barça played Slavia Prague in 2019 and they were very good, nice team.