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Vince193

Jonathan David

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David is too good to not start scoring.  Bayern avoided passing to Phonzie when he first arrived and Lille is not looking to give David the ball.  Ikone no doubt feels he should be starting and I am guessing some of his teammates are in his corner.  This will be hard for David but he doesn’t strike me as a quitter and before long the Iceman will be celebrating goal after goal.

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4-0 win with a two-man advantage and no goals for David. If he cannot score in those circumstances when will he? Does not look like a player with confidence. Reminds me of Cavallini before the goals started to come. Once he gets one he will get more, but this is another way how not playing internationals is hurting us. If Canada was playing David would likely have a few goals and a renewed confidence. Right now he still has a good attitude (at least) but he is very much in his head. He is not playing instinctually.

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1 minute ago, Nate3322 said:

Man it seems like Lille was a bad move.... They just won't pass to him. Hopefully he has a good game against Sparta Praha in the Europa League

I said it from early that I didn’t want Ligue 1 move but instead a Bundesliga one for him due to being able to easily adapt to the French culture. I know he thinks he cool with his teammates, which can make you complacent especially when those same guys are probably like “fack this Canadian record signing, he’s not better than me”. And that’s what it exactly looks likes.

 

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6 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Such a team of individuals. They don't cross they wont pass. I feel for him. This is going to be hard. 

Key observation here.

The left side generates the most opportunities and since they don't cross - David sees very little of the good balls.

Either you make changes on the right at midfield or you move David there. The man is a fantastic playmaker and would at least generate on the right as well while pilling up assists

Edited by Ansem

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Lille are now top of the table, firing an all cylinders, and are doing it without any goals from Jonathan. 

It's not about lack of service, or formation since he's getting his looks on goal, it's just not going in. After 7 games we cannot blame dumb luck. Somethings not right here. 

Jonathan is not the focus of Lilles attack. They have a balanced team and options going forward, mainly Yilmaz and Bamba. 2 of their subs also scored today.  

The gap between Gent to Lille is much larger than I expected, and Jonathan has yet to make any real impact yet. Given the investment, he will continue to get his chances, but at the moment he must be getting frustrated and that is not helping his game, as we saw today when he shanked a shot well wide when he had two teamates open in the box.

Lets hope all he needs is that first elusive goal for the floodgates to open. 

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2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

4-0 win with a two-man advantage and no goals for David. If he cannot score in those circumstances when will he? Does not look like a player with confidence. Reminds me of Cavallini before the goals started to come. Once he gets one he will get more, but this is another way how not playing internationals is hurting us. If Canada was playing David would likely have a few goals and a renewed confidence. Right now he still has a good attitude (at least) but he is very much in his head. He is not playing instinctually.

I briefly said this earlier.

This is why we need games. We can’t rely on talent, while neglecting form. It’s a recipe for big heartbreak or too much on young shoulders.

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4 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Lille are now top of the table, firing an all cylinders, and are doing it without any goals from Jonathan. 

It's not about lack of service, or formation since he's getting his looks on goal, it's just not going in. After 7 games we cannot blame dumb luck. Somethings not right here. 

Jonathan is not the focus of Lilles attack. They have a balanced team and options going forward, mainly Yilmaz and Bamba. 2 of their subs also scored today.  

The gap between Gent to Lille is much larger than I expected, and Jonathan has yet to make any real impact yet. Given the investment, he will continue to get his chances, but at the moment he must be getting frustrated and that is not helping his game, as we saw today when he shanked a shot well wide when he had two teamates open in the box.

Lets hope all he needs is that first elusive goal for the floodgates to open. 

Some Cup games cannot come soon enough. I agree that Ligue 1 is much tighter than the Belgian Pro League A. There is seemingly no space for a player like David to operate without intelligent teammates around him. His fellow attackers are not cerebral, but rather talented dribblers, which may be true of the league in general. He would have been a better fit for the Bundesliga. No German team was paying that cash for him though, that was the problem. 

Edited by Obinna

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1 minute ago, BrennanFan said:

Lille are now top of the table, firing an all cylinders, and are doing it without any goals from Jonathan. 

It's not about lack of service, or formation since he's getting his looks on goal, it's just not going in. After 7 games we cannot blame dumb luck. Somethings not right here. 

Jonathan is not the focus of Lilles attack. They have a balanced team and options going forward, mainly Yilmaz and Bamba. 2 of their subs also scored today.  

The gap between Gent to Lille is much larger than I expected, and Jonathan has yet to make any real impact yet. Given the investment, he will continue to get his chances, but at the moment he must be getting frustrated and that is not helping his game, as we saw today when he shanked a shot well wide when he had two teamates open in the box.

Lets hope all he needs is that first elusive goal for the floodgates to open. 

Also correct.

The team's doing well without David.

If you want to win Ligue 1, make a deep run in Europa and/or qualify for next year's Champions League, the coach needs to solve the right side.

He has the luxury of having room to maneuver with being on top of the league right now but deep down, he knows that this won't last as PSG is surging and he'll need David to make stay in the spot they currently are.

As I said earlier, the right mid isn't great. We could see David dropping back there as a last resort if this keeps going on.

 

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9 minutes ago, Shway said:

Woah. Anyone who watches Liverpool knows what Firmino contributes to the attack.

A lot of plays come through him as the false 9 position, where as David doesn’t touch the ball at all. 

I just mean in terms of confidence. 

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2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Also correct.

The team's doing well without David.

If you want to win Ligue 1, make a deep run in Europa and/or qualify for next year's Champions League, the coach needs to solve the right side.

He has the luxury of having room to maneuver with being on top of the league right now but deep down, he knows that this won't last as PSG is surging and he'll need David to make stay in the spot they currently are.

As I said earlier, the right mid isn't great. We could see David dropping back there as a last resort if this keeps going on.

 

I do not see this happening. Lille seem committed to playing David down the middle, which is probably the right call (though I would like him deeper). If a forward was going to push out to the right midfield, it would probably be Timothy Weah. 

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He needs to play as a false 9....let old man Yilmaz play the target. 

He really needs to assert himself into the games, without burning the very same bridges he needs to make with his teammates. 

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21 minutes ago, Nate3322 said:

Man it seems like Lille was a bad move.... They just won't pass to him. Hopefully he has a good game against Sparta Praha in the Europa League

I wouldn’t be surprised if Weah starts over David mid-week. 

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7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I do not see this happening. Lille seem committed to playing David down the middle, which is probably the right call (though I would like him deeper). If a forward was going to push out to the right midfield, it would probably be Timothy Weah. 

Yes. Both Weah and Ikone will get into the 11 sooner or later, and right now, clearly, it's Jonathan who is not on form and ripe for replacing. The management has been extremely patient with David thus far, but I don't think anyone who has been following Lille this year would be surprised to see David on the bench sooner than later. The upcoming Cup games may be what David needs, or they may be used by Jonathan's competitors to leapfrog him in the starting 11.  

It's kill or be killed at this level. Jonathan needs to man the **** up and show his worth, now. He can do it,he has the tools, he just needs to put it together. 

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1 minute ago, Shway said:

He needs to play as a false 9....let old man Yilmaz play the target. 

He really needs to assert himself into the games, without burning the very same bridges he needs to make with his teammates. 

The reason for this would be to get him more touches, but I am no longer optimistic things would be much different.

David will get the ball and find a teammate, who will in turn go on the dribble or defer to a player who will go on the dribble.

They are a team of dribbles. Ikone, Bamba, and Arujo (from least to most tolerable) will always get the bulk of the touches. Think back to Gent for a second. Who was the big dribbler? There was none. They were a pass-and-move group. Canada is somewhat like that as well. This is what suits David. His game is not creating for himself, it is manipulating space and finding pockets, two attributes that are not maximized in a team of talented dribblers.

 

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1 minute ago, BrennanFan said:

Yes. Both Weah and Ikone will get into the 11 sooner or later, and right now, clearly, it's Jonathan who is not on form and ripe for replacing. The management has been extremely patient with David thus far, but I don't think anyone who has been following Lille this year would be surprised to see David on the bench sooner than later. The upcoming Cup games may be what David needs, or they may be used by Jonathan's competitors to leapfrog him in the starting 11.  

It's kill or be killed at this level. Jonathan needs to man the **** up and show his worth, now. He can do it,he has the tools, he just needs to put it together. 

Agreed. To your point, he needs to start actually holding off defenders when his back is to goal. He is still in the habit of feeling contact and going down for the foul. This worked in Belgium, and in concacaf, but I noticed that French referees are not calling it.

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I only saw parts of the game, but I saw him with 3 decent to good chances. The most frustrating thing was that he didn’t even get a shot off on two of them, and the third he had a weak shot blocked. The chances I am referring to are when he got a through ball in the first half, I believe on a two on one. He was closed down quickly and couldn’t get it over to the other attacker. Chance 2 was the cross along the ground that he missed. Chance 3 was in the second half where he got it at the top of the box and did his hesitation move which just allowed a defender to get over to him and lose his shooting opportunity.

At this point I’m not even sure getting a goal would open the floodgates. I hope that is the case but I’m getting pretty pessimistic at this point. Pull it together David!

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Just now, Ansem said:

In a Europa game, I'd be shocked

Agreed. I do not think Weah starts over David for now in any circumstance. Their priority will be to get him off the mark so he can start scoring and feeling good. A game against a weaker team in Europa league is exactly what he needs to get up and running.

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5 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Man, you guys need to stop blaming everyone else other than him. He’s not playing well and he’s not pulling his weight. Blame Ikone or Bamba all you want but if someone is going to see the bench soon it’s going to be David.

Yup he needs to do his part and score when the chance comes, otherwise he will be on the bench.

It may not be a bad thing either. He says he does not feel pressure, but he is not striking like a forward without pressure, is he?

Having him come off the bench, when the game is open, might not be the worst thing. I would imagine being gifted undeserved minutes, just so you can score, would heap more pressure on you, not less.

Edited by Obinna

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30 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Yes. Both Weah and Ikone will get into the 11 sooner or later, and right now, clearly, it's Jonathan who is not on form and ripe for replacing. The management has been extremely patient with David thus far, but I don't think anyone who has been following Lille this year would be surprised to see David on the bench sooner than later. The upcoming Cup games may be what David needs, or they may be used by Jonathan's competitors to leapfrog him in the starting 11.  

It's kill or be killed at this level. Jonathan needs to man the **** up and show his worth, now. He can do it,he has the tools, he just needs to put it together. 

Football being also very "political" doubtful that the record transfer guy gets benched this soon..even less for a Europa game. If David gets benched too soon, the blame will quickly go to the coach who made this deal happen.

David is clearly talented and good enough for France when playing to his full potential... the coach would be putting himself at risk as well for giving up too soon which would be interpreted as him admitting he was wrong wasting his club millions in the process

He's better off figuring out how to get David instead. He has to try everything before benching him - including playing him at mid. If David gets pushed back, that's a sign that the coach patience is wearing thin.

Coach comments:

  • David works hard
  • He trust David, his teammates trust him too
  • Knows that David is a pure goal scorer, confident he'll get there
  • David is aware that he's not scoring, you can see the disappointment in his face
  • Some players adapt rapidly, others takes more time
  • He's not yet playing to his 100% level
  • There will be many more games and different combinations for David
  • Says that David might have underestimated Ligue 1 level - he'll be fine as long as he execute the plan
  • Doesn't plan a big turnover for Europa - (players with International duty might get rest)
Edited by Ansem

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Maybe he'll repeat his 1st year at Gent... under the radar until he exploded in Europa. I'm hoping that he's dominant next Thursday.

He scored like 5 goals in his first 5 appearances or something. Don’t think he was ever under the radar, just couldn’t score more cuz he was still a super sub. 

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21 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

 

The gap between Gent to Lille is much larger than I expected, and Jonathan has yet to make any real impact yet. Given the investment, he will continue to get his chances, but at the moment he must be getting frustrated and that is not helping his game, as we saw today when he shanked a shot well wide when he had two teamates open in the box.

The thing i noticed was that there where two instances in the first half where he found himself with the ball, un marked and with space.   He was not able to use his pace to create a better scoring chance for himself. Instead the defender was able to keep pace or close in and prevent a quality scoring chnace from him.  

At one point the announcers on TV5 made an interesting comments of how the Belgian league is no longer what it was in the Pre-Bosman era.   

Tying the two statements above together:   I have noticed that one of the things that distinguishes second div and first divisions or secondary leagues and the top flight, is the pace and foot speed of central defenders.   Slow ones Are few in the better leagues.   But you will see a lot of them in second division clubs or secondary leagues.  Maybe Belgium was one of those leagues where he would have been able to outpace that defender(s) on thos plays that i was talkign about in the firat paragraph.  
 

i am speculating of course.   I hope i am wrong.

Edited by Free kick

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10 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The thing i noticed was that there where two instances in the first half where he found himself with the ball, un marked and with space.   He was not able to out use his pace to create a better scoring chance for himself. Instead the defender was able to keep pace or close in and prevent a quality scoring chnace from him.  

At one point the announcers on TV5 made an interesting comments of how the Belgian league is no longer what it was in the Pre-Bosnan era.   

Tying the two statements above together:   One of the things that distinguishes second div and first divisions or secondary leagues and the top flight, is the pace and foot speed of central defenders.   Slow ones Are few in the better leagues.   But you will see a lot of them in second division clubs or secondary leagues.  Maybe Belgium was one of those leagues where he would have been able to outpace that defender(s) on thos plays that i was talkign about in the firat paragraph.  
 

i am speculating of course.   I hope i am wrong.

I had the same basic thought today. He is closed down more quickly in France than Belgium. At first I thought maybe David was not fit, but that excuses is gone at this stage of the season. Does he look bulkier than before, or is it just me? It could also be the case he has lost some of his explosiveness with the extra weight on. For sure though the defenders are better and faster in France.

I hate to point it out, but Mexico and USA are both quick in the CB area. David had trouble getting around Long in nations league and did not really make an impact against Mexico (aside from stripping Moreno and feeding Cavallini for the goal). 

On the bright side, he scored against Saint Etienne and Roma in Europa league last year, with both goals against the French side being generated by his pace. The first one getting to the free ball for the header, the second running onto a ball and firing in the top corner. He looked faster at Gent though...hopefully that is in my head and nobody else sees this.

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At Gent, David, Yaremchuk & Depoitre played like they had done so for years. Quick 1/2 touch football, backheels etc. They instinctively knew where the other was and it did not matter who scored. They played as a unit. That's missing at Lille and in particular that quick release pass that will spring David. His movements are still good. Yes he should have scored the pass that was sent in from the right; the other 2 were half chances at most and you cant blame him for going for goal vs passing at this point. There was that over the head pass that David made to a player on the right and the resulting cross to Yilmaz  which stands out as the only good combination play.  Its interesting that when Bamba & Ikone are on the field together they rarely pass to anyone else. I did not watch Yilmaz when he played in Turkey/Besiktas. I know he scored a lot but can he play that quick 1/2 touch football? Its very unlikely that Lille will "bench" David after paying a record fee for him. They may not start him for a game and bring him on a sub, but that's probably it.  First place; no pressure on the coach, so why  bench your top signing? 

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