Should Christine Sinclair retire from the CWNT?

[Binky]

Shame on all of you who feel that Christine Sinclair needs to prove that she is worthy of coaching the CWNT. This woman was chosen to carry Canada's flag at the closing ceremony of the London Olympics (an honour neither Herdman or Heiner-Moller will ever experience). Christine Sinclair has also been recognized with the order of Canada (again an honour neither Herdman or Heiner-Moller will ever experience). Soon she will be the highest international goal scorer of all-time, male or female. What is the CSA or Portland going to teach her that she doesn't know already. Why do you think that she has been acknowledged with all these accolades?

 

[Admin]

1 hour ago, Binky said:

Shame on all of you who feel that Christine Sinclair needs to prove that she is worthy of coaching the CWNT. This woman was chosen to carry Canada's flag at the closing ceremony of the London Olympics (an honour neither Herdman or Heiner-Moller will ever experience). Christine Sinclair has also been recognized with the order of Canada (again an honour neither Herdman or Heiner-Moller will ever experience). Soon she will be the highest international goal scorer of all-time, male or female. What is the CSA or Portland going to teach her that she doesn't know already. Why do you think that she has been acknowledged with all these accolades?

 

There is no fight here.

If she can coach, and more to the point, wants to coach, fantastic.  However, you just can't snap your fingers and make it happen. 

I think she will be involved in the game going forward, I hope she wants to be as it seems not enough players remain involved in the game at all and we need more of them to do so.

No one thinks she needs to 'prove she is worthy' or doubts her commitment to soccer in this country.  You are asking for her to be the coach. We are only saying she should work on being a coach first to get there.  

 

 

 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

3 hours ago, Binky said:

Please reread your words carefully and try to imagine how a woman would feel and react to them?

This post is further derailing and already absurd thread but:

-You don't need ovaries to coach women and you don't need testicle to coach men. 

-Unfortunately, there are still not enough women being given the respect and the opportunities they deserve to coach both men's and women's teams. That is slowly changing, but not fast enough.

-Rhian Wilkinson, who actually has coaching experience, would likely do a better job. Sinclair is a great player, maybe the greatest player; that does not signify that she would be a great coach.

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Blackdude]

I remember how great Wanye Gretzky was as a coach.

[Binky]

16 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

I remember how great Wanye Gretzky was as a coach.

And I remember how great Emmanuel Sanon was as a coach. Can't wait to see Haiti get slaughtered on Tuesday.

[Binky]

Christine Sinclair's immediate future, as of Tuesday, July 2, 2019:

https://richathletes.com/christine-sinclair-bio-husband-net-worth/

[Binky]

When will it happen?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/can-pick-one-teammates-share-best-christine-sinclair-moments/

 

[Binky]

2 hours ago, Lofty said:

I will be really disappointed if Sinclair retires while she is still one of Canada's best eleven.

She is done as a forward. She was never fast but even the little speed she had is gone. But she is still a fantastic footballer, a cut above, and could still be outstanding in midfield, partnering Jesse Fleming; and her leadership out there makes everybody better. All she needs is a coach who will imbue her with the confidence to grab that ball and put it on the penalty spot when circumstances demand it.

No one ever became a less effective footballer because of age. Age is just the thing that is closely correlated with reduced speed and stamina. But let's not make the call based solely on age.

 

Seeing the way you answered my question, I suppose that there is a duality to "When will it happen?"

There is the when will Christine retire? And there is also the when will Christine break the goal scoring record? And maybe the two questions add up to one and the same?

From a retirement point of view, I would say that she has one year left at an international level, at best. There were numerous occasions during the recently completed World Cup, where she looked absolutely gassed. I know what that's like. At 63 years of age, I long ago recognized that there is no way I can keep up with an 18 or 19 year old. However, being as physically fit as Christine is, and the fact that Canada has never in her lifetime produced another player anywhere near her caliber, she can probably hold down a place for another year with the Tokyo Olympics looming on the horizon, from July 22 to August 8, 2020. After all, the Olympics are the stage where she has enjoyed her greatest moments, and a 12 team tournament seems to be the best suited for a 37 years veteran. Sticking around beyond that, say for the next World Cup in 2023, at the ripe old age of 40, would seem unrealistic and be a really sad reflection of how shallow the Canadian women's talent pool is at.

However, how would you rate Canada's chances of qualifying for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics? With 5 of the 12 spots already claimed, and only 2 spots allotted to CONCACAF, it would be difficult to picture the United States not qualifying. Therefore, is the CNWT the next best in CONCACAF right now? Canada has fallen to 7th place in the July 12, 2019 FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings.

1	USA	2180	2101	0
7	Canada	1976	2006	-2
27	Mexico	1699	1700	-1
37	Costa Rica	1630	1630	-1
51	Jamaica	1453	1449	2
56	Panama	1429	1433	0

Means of qualification	Ref.	Dates2	Venue2	Berths	Qualified
Host country		7 September 2013	N/A	1	Japan
2018 Copa América	[12]	4–22 April 2018	Chile	1	Brazil
2018 OFC Nations Cup	[13]	18 November – 1 December 2018	New Caledonia	1	New Zealand
2019 FIFA Women's World Cup (As UEFA qualifying)		7 June – 7 July 2019	France	3	Great Britain  Netherlands  Sweden
2020 CAF Olympic Qualifying Tournament	[14]	13 January – 9 February 2020	Various	1	TBD
2020 CONCACAF Olympic Qualifying Championship		February 2020	TBD	2	TBD
2020 AFC Olympic Qualifying Tournament	[15]	2–11 March 2020	Various	2	TBD
CAF–CONMEBOL play-off		2020 (TBD)	TBD	1	TBD
Total				12

 

[rkomar]

You make up your team with the best that you have.  As long as replacing Sinclair with another player makes the team worse, she should stay on the roster.  I don't care about how she has fallen off with the years; she's not in competition with her past self.  She's in competition with our other players, and so far I don't see a lot of them that could replace her and make the team better (and that includes leadership along with playmaking and scoring skills).

[Binky]

22 minutes ago, rkomar said:

You make up your team with the best that you have.  As long as replacing Sinclair with another player makes the team worse, she should stay on the roster.  I don't care about how she has fallen off with the years; she's not in competition with her past self.  She's in competition with our other players, and so far I don't see a lot of them that could replace her and make the team better (and that includes leadership along with playmaking and scoring skills).

Of course, you're raising a highly subjective point. How do you determine whether or not a player's contributions are making the team better or worse? To answer that question you need to define Christine Sinclair's role on the team. Are you going to field a 60-year old because she still exhibits better leadership qualities than anybody else? Is Christine Sinclair's play-making ability or scoring touch better than anyone else avaible for the CWNT? If you consider the following World Cup records, then Christine Sinclair's ship has long since sailed:

Oldest goalscorer

37 years, 98 days: Formiga ( Brazil), vs South Korea, 9 June 2015.

Oldest hat-trick scorer

34 years, 25 days: Christiane ( Brazil), vs Jamaica, 9 June 2019.

Oldest goalscorer, final

34 years, 2 days: Megan Rapino ( United States), vs the Netherlans, 7 July 2019.

Quite possibly, the CONCACAF Olympic qualifying tournament will end-up representing Christine Sinclair's final competitive internationals, if Canada fails to qualify for Tokyo 2020. (Now there's a sobering thought, eh?)

I truly hope that Christine Sinclair's legacy will not turn out to be: The Ghost of Christine Sinclair!

[Rocket Robin]

Sinclair and the A&W man are on a commercial again for the Teen Burger.  

It's August 22nd this year where proceeds from buying them go to finding a cure for MS.  

I tried to find it on YouTube and they were last year's commercial (August 16th was the day).  

Looks like it was just outtakes and repeats because some of the 'people in the park' and dialogue are the same.  

[red card]

She has been named Canada Soccer Player of the Decade.

Christine Sinclair has been named the Canada Soccer Player of the Decade after an unparalleled 10 years of world-class performances in which she continued to build a legacy as of one of Canada’s greatest athletes of all time. A Concacaf champion in 2010 and back-to-back Olympic medal winner from London 2012 and Rio 2016, she was the 2012 Lou Marsh Trophy and Bobbie Rosenfeld Award winner, the 2011 WPS Championship MVP, and seven-time Canada Soccer Canadian Player of the Year.

 

[Patrick]

There's no way Sinclair can or should just waltz in to the top job.  Just for starters, does she have any of the required licences to coach at that level?  Is she even interested in coaching?  But that aside, coaching is not playing and there have been very few players who have successfully transitioned immediately to high level coaching let alone coaching a top 10 national team.  Sinclair is special but she still needs to put some time in learning the trade.  Gretzky was a great player, not so much a coach.  And finally, our women deserve the best coach available, and I don't think that's Christine Sinclair... yet.

[Big_M]

playing and coaching are two different worlds..success as player has nothing to do with coach

[Bison44]

For someone who bitches about the CSA non stop you are not trying very hard to help them.  How did the former player/interm coaching go for the mens side?  Havnt you railed about the poor coaching decisions the mens side has endured over the years??  If SInclair wants to be a coach (has she even said that?) then I am sure she'll put in the work and be a good one, but you just dont hand the keys over to the program because you can put the ball in the net.  The team deserves a real coach with experience to get them another medal.  

[rkomar]

There's way more to coaching the national squad than pep talks and selecting tactics during a game.  There's so much administrative work between the games.  Hiring, firing, budgets, scouting,...  You need to work your way up into such a position.

[Bison44]

Lenarduzzi, Miller, Mitchell, all 3 guys who knew the CDN program, and had some coaching experience and none of them very successful with Canada.  And I am sure you complained loudly about it.  Its disingenuous to bitch when the men do it but think its great for the womens side.  Take the summer and find a good professional coach.  Let Christine play she'll have time tor coaching later. 

And werent you the guy whining about coaches having all the proper coaching licenses etc??  Shitting on Herdman for not having the proper license...does Sinclair have any??  Your rap about helping the CSA is so very thin, usually you are wanting to get paid for any bright ideas you might give.  Go back to posting your nonsense with your other account.  

[Kent]

This article is kind of related to this thread topic.

https://canpl.ca/video/canpl-ca-debate-which-canwnt-player-will-be-the-most-important-for-the-new-era

I'm surprised Kadeisha Buchanon didn't get mentioned. All three women that were picked are deserving, but I'm still surprised there wasn't at the very least an honourable mention for Buchanon. Maybe it's just a matter of people taking her for granted at this point, or not prioritizing defense. If I had to pick a top 3 I would probably drop Fleming, and have mine be Buchanon, Lawrence, Huitema, in that order.

[Blackdude]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

This article is kind of related to this thread topic.

https://canpl.ca/video/canpl-ca-debate-which-canwnt-player-will-be-the-most-important-for-the-new-era

I'm surprised Kadeisha Buchanon didn't get mentioned. All three women that were picked are deserving, but I'm still surprised there wasn't at the very least an honourable mention for Buchanon. Maybe it's just a matter of people taking her for granted at this point, or not prioritizing defense. If I had to pick a top 3 I would probably drop Fleming, and have mine be Buchanon, Lawrence, Huitema, in that order.

Centre backs aren't scoring goals. Sure she's important at the back, but if you can't score or create something how do you beat top teams?

[TGAA_Star]

Christine Sinclair is a legend of the Women's game that goes without saying but as far as retiring from the national team, she really should.

[rkomar]

As long as she has the fire in her belly, and there is no other player that improves the team more than she does, then she should stay.  We've seen the team play without her, and it's not very inspiring.  I wouldn't mind seeing her pushed off the team by superior players, but the latter haven't shown up yet.  I don't blame her for still playing, I don't blame the coaches for playing her, I blame the millions of soccer playing women in this country who can't find what it takes to beat out a 37 year old player.

[_Vic_]

1 hour ago, rkomar said:

I blame the millions of soccer playing women in this country who can't find what it takes to beat out a 37 year old player.

There wouldn't be that many playing, perhaps about 400k by registrations. And only a percentage of that would be strikers. But your statement still stands on it's own.

Anyone care to fathom a guess at how much funding Christine Sinclair has received from Canada over the past 20 years?

Now how about the rest of the women in this country? I seem to remember the "wish sandwich" in the Blues Brothers... two slices of bread and you wish you had something to go in-between.

Pretty much every other country in the world you have an elite women's club system that produces annual crops and rotations of players. They have great programs and professionalism (read: attitude and approach) and facilities. They take it very seriously. Build it and they will come, and they did.

Some like the Scandinavians did it 40 years ago. But this true north social democracy is still waiting for the right moment. Perhaps on the centenary of the Northern Europeans doing it, only 100 years of caution is probably politically correct enough considering we're a leading country in women's rights. 

Long story short: when you live in a country where the highest opportunity and level of club play is beer league amateur, putting their lack of world class standard on the players is perhaps a bit misdirected.

Edited June 20, 2020 by _Vic_
typo

[rkomar]

I agree with most of what you say, but on the other hand, Sinclair herself had a lot less in the way of development and opportunity than today's players.  If you could do it back then, you can do it today.  Of course it's really tough, but you would think that more of those hundreds of thousands (okay, not millions) would rise to the challenge.  We need more players like Kadeisha Buchanan, with her steely determination to succeed.  Because God knows the economic, climatic and geographic challenges of running a top-level league in Canada are not going to be solved anytime soon.

By the way, it's good to see you back here.

[_Vic_]

They've had a national ringette league since 2004 with less than 10% of the players. It's a well run sport and their cup is always half-full. A key observation is it's a women's sport and they are not in the shadow of men.

Outside the national team women have never been a full partner in soccer in Canada and have been held back by being junior partners. If they branched off in soccer 50 years ago into their own association, a women's league would have existed decades ago. With 100% certainty.

Like ringette it doesn't have to be swimming in cash, or even fully professional contract-wise. It's not even the league format that's the big thing, it's just having a cross-country network of publicly-run great programs. We have completely and utterly failed to activate the entire private sector across the country with our closed-circle my-way-or-the-highway national programs like we're China. It hit it's peak scalability-wise decades ago.

The future is really bleak right now when you look at how incredibly fast other countries are moving. We're pretty much standing still and doing what we've been doing for decades (and the results are unsurprising and expected). The only real question is how bad and how long are the negative results before we grow out of our lazy, old and tired half-empty cup.

[SthMelbRed]

So, we'd have had a professional, women's football league 50 years ago if the CSA hadn't been prioritising men? We've had a national men's league for just 7 of those 50 years.