Jump to content
Robert

Should Christine Sinclair retire from the CWNT?

Recommended Posts

On the topic of retirement, if the Canadian women's roster includes the same players that got minutes against the U.S.A., last October 17th, the team average will be 26.5 years by the time we face the Netherlands on June 20th. An experienced squad for women's standards today. This will more than likely be final World Cup for the five senior players on the team.

36 - Sinclair

35 - Matheson

32 - Labbe

30 - Chapman

30 - Schmidt

26 - Zadorsky

26 - Leon

24 - Beckie

24 - Lawrence

24 - Prince

23 - Buchanan

23 - Quinn

21 - Fleming

18 - Huitema

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christine Sinclair gave an interview to TSN ( September 2018 )  which revealed  that she still harbours ambitions  for winning an Olympic gold medal ( which implies the  2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics ) as well as winning the WWC.  If true ,then Christine Sinclair will probably not  be retiring shortly after the 2019 WWC France.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7aoOJiojeY

In addition, someone playing this well for both club and country could conceivably finish this cycle and then play for another cycle after that. At the end of the 2018 NWSL season , Sinclair was tied for fourth in in goals , tied for second in assists , and was one of the league's minute leaders.  The same with Canada, Sinclair was the team's top scorer  and a top minutes  leader as well.

To me, Christine Sinclair will break Abby Wambach's record next year ( 2019 ) but hypothetically if she doesn't I don't think it's a catastrophe. I think Christine Sinclair has a few more quality years in her and will at some point inevitably break Wambach's record and then add to it ( perhaps substantially ).

Finally,  if people knew how thin Canada's talent pool really was ( relative to other top nations )  then they would  not  be in such a hurry to see Christine Sinclair retire. For Canada's sake,  it may be necessary for Christine Sinclair to play for Canada into her early 40s.

Edited by tc-in-bc
punctuation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the "punctuation" bit, I usually go "typo".

Old players never die, the mental compete lasts to the grave. I think every 80yr old thinks given enough drugs they can still lace up the boots and get it done.

The physical side is the grim reaper though. The question for all aging players is can their body get there. Age creeps up pretty quickly in the mid to late 30s. And doing well in the NWSL and doing well in the World Cup once you get out of group are different things. That's not just age-related either, there are players who can compete successfully at say a league level but can't elevate their game to international knockout level. Negotiating decisions like that head-on is what sets master coaches apart from the crowded lot of journeymen.

The EURO showed women's soccer has hit a level where anyone who has selected and managed and shepherded technically and spiritually and configured properly and everything dialed in can go right to the finish. The audacity of the Dutch, the Danes and the Austrians are a refreshing herald of the new world order and a warning to expect the unexpected. Which is great for women's soccer which has traditionally been the usual suspects.

Edited by Vic
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, here's some hope for all you "Seniors" out there.

Brazil's Formiga holds the record for being the oldest woman to score a goal at a World Cup Final tournament. She was 37 years and 98 days old when she put one in the old onion bag against South Korea, in Montreal, on June 9, 2015.

So if Christine wants to break that record, she will have to keep playing at least until the 2023 World Cup Final.

And if she wants the all-time record for women or men, she'll have to keep going till at least the 2027 World Cup Final to break Roger Milla's record:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/stats-oldest-goal-scorers-world-cup-football

Stats: List of oldest goal-scorers in World Cup

1990 World Cup Finals. Second Phase. Naples, Italy. 23rd June, 1990. Cameroon 2 v Colombia 1. Cameroon's Roger Milla celebrates after scoring the second goal to put his team through to the quarter finals.

Roger Milla

Cameroon’s legendary striker Roger Milla leads the chart of oldest goal-scorers in World Cup. He scored a World Cup goal at the age of 43 years 49 days. A list of oldest goal-scorers in World Cup is given below.

Milla appeared in 5 World Cups starting from 1978. 1994 World Cup was his last one, where he became the oldest player to play as well as score in a world cup.

A list of oldest goal-scorers in World Cups is given below.

statistics-old-1900794.png

Edited by Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been reading from unbiased people in other countries that she can't keep up on the field, they were suggesting late sub.

90-120 minutes is a long time, especially if you're playing a strict system. Impressions from people who've been watching?

For the goals record, Wambach wasn't the PK taker for the Americans to round out her career. Does Sinclair stick around to bag PK's and play minnows and pad her stats?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Vic said:

Been reading from unbiased people in other countries that she can't keep up on the field, they were suggesting late sub.

90-120 minutes is a long time, especially if you're playing a strict system. Impressions from people who've been watching?

For the goals record, Wambach wasn't the PK taker for the Americans to round out her career. Does Sinclair stick around to bag PK's and play minnows and pad her stats?

They've been playing a 3-5-2 with Sinclair as one of the top 2, which I don't think is really the best place for her now, it does seem like she (or most people tbh) can't keep up the pressure on opponents for the whole game. In Portland they play her more withdrawn, kind of behind the forward line, and she looks much better there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2019 at 8:01 AM, Vic said:

Been reading from unbiased people in other countries that she can't keep up on the field, they were suggesting late sub.

90-120 minutes is a long time, especially if you're playing a strict system. Impressions from people who've been watching?

For the goals record, Wambach wasn't the PK taker for the Americans to round out her career. Does Sinclair stick around to bag PK's and play minnows and pad her stats?

https://www.timbers.com/post/2019/06/26/thorns-elizabeth-ball-gabby-seiler-world-cup-knockouts-ep-7-world-cup-podcast

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer the OP: NO.

Sinclair is still one of Canada's best players, and probably still will be for at least a couple more years, but no longer has the legs to lead the line. Put her in attacking midfield alongside Jesse Fleming and let the young guns lead the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2019 at 8:01 AM, Vic said:

Been reading from unbiased people in other countries that she can't keep up on the field, they were suggesting late sub.

90-120 minutes is a long time, especially if you're playing a strict system. Impressions from people who've been watching?

For the goals record, Wambach wasn't the PK taker for the Americans to round out her career. Does Sinclair stick around to bag PK's and play minnows and pad her stats?

I agree with those "unbiased" sources. IMO, Kenneth Heiner-Moller did not get the maximum effective use out of each of his players. Your comparison with Abby Wambach is a good example of that. Abby turned 35 years old at the 2015 World Cup, roughly the same age as Christine, who turned 36 at this year's tournament. Ironically, both power-forwards were born in the month of June, the 13th and 2nd respectively.

How did Jill Ellis utilize Wambach at the World Cup in Canada:

vs. Australia  - starter, played the whole match.

vs. Sweden - came on as a substitute in the 67th min.

vs. Nigeria - starter, played the whole match, scored 1 goal.

vs. Columbia - starter, came off in the 69th min., scored 1 goal, a penalty.

vs. China - came on as a substitute in the 86th min.

vs. Germany - came on as a substitute in the 80th min.

vs. Japan - came on as a substitute in the 79th min.

Ellis had Wambach playing a total of 297 minutes over the course of 7 matches.

KHM had Sinclair playing a total of 338 minutes over the course of 4 matches.

A 36 year old playing that many World Cup minutes over the span of 14 days! No wonder that the engine of the Canadian team was running on empty during the last two matches.

Was it an experienced coaching decision to start the 36-year old Sinclair in every match, especially against the opponents the likes of youthful Dutch and Swedish squads? Didn't the fact that Christine chose to sit out practices in France, because as she herself put it, "being on the wrong side of 30," give KHM somewhat of a clue? If either Jordyn Huitema or Adriana Leon had been utilized as starters during the tournament, with Christine coming on as a second half substitute, then Canada would right now be preparing to face Germany on Saturday for a place in the semi-finals. What a shame!

What we need is a qualified Canadian woman to coach the CWNT. And there may soon be one available in Burnaby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2019 at 8:01 AM, Vic said:

For the goals record, Wambach wasn't the PK taker for the Americans to round out her career. Does Sinclair stick around to bag PK's and play minnows and pad her stats?

If Wambach didn't take penalties she definitely played for a much better team and with a stronger supporting cast.  Canada has always been a low scoring team so a straight comparison of Sinclair to Wambach is apples and oranges.  The two have played a similar number of games, Sinclair 286 (and counting), Wambach 254, so I think the fact Sinclair is even close to the record says all we need to know as to who is the better goal scorer.  As for minnows and penalties to round out her career, I'm fine with that just so long as she erases Wambach's name from the record books.  The comparisons on the field makes the two look similar, but Sinclair is miles ahead in class and sportsmanship.  I feel dirty mentioning Wambach's name in the same sentence as Sinclair, honestly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Binky said:

What we need is a qualified Canadian woman to coach the CWNT. And there may soon be one available in Burnaby. 

Why on earth would we need a Canadian or a woman to coach?  If the best person for the job is Canadian, great!  If it's a woman, that's great, too!  But I think we need the best coach, period.  Our experiment with a female coach ended badly, and the Americans are not happy with Jill Ellis.  The English, however, are doing just fine under Phil Neville.

As for Sinclair coaching, sure, if she's actually a good coach.  We shouldn't just hand her the job because she was a good player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Patrick said:

If Wambach didn't take penalties she definitely played for a much better team and with a stronger supporting cast.  Canada has always been a low scoring team so a straight comparison of Sinclair to Wambach is apples and oranges.  The two have played a similar number of games, Sinclair 286 (and counting), Wambach 254, so I think the fact Sinclair is even close to the record says all we need to know as to who is the better goal scorer.  As for minnows and penalties to round out her career, I'm fine with that just so long as she erases Wambach's name from the record books.  The comparisons on the field makes the two look similar, but Sinclair is miles ahead in class and sportsmanship.  I feel dirty mentioning Wambach's name in the same sentence as Sinclair, honestly.

Wambach scored many penalties. She had that one step run up which was very effective. He is just saying she wasn't the penalty taker at the very end of her career, like that makes any difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Binky said:

I agree with those "unbiased" sources. IMO, Kenneth Heiner-Moller did not get the maximum effective use out of each of his players. Your comparison with Abby Wambach is a good example of that. Abby turned 35 years old at the 2015 World Cup, roughly the same age as Christine, who turned 36 at this year's tournament. Ironically, both power-forwards were born in the month of June, the 13th and 2nd respectively.

How did Jill Ellis utilize Wambach at the World Cup in Canada:

vs. Australia  - starter, played the whole match.

vs. Sweden - came on as a substitute in the 67th min.

vs. Nigeria - starter, played the whole match, scored 1 goal.

vs. Columbia - starter, came off in the 69th min., scored 1 goal, a penalty.

vs. China - came on as a substitute in the 86th min.

vs. Germany - came on as a substitute in the 80th min.

vs. Japan - came on as a substitute in the 79th min.

Ellis had Wambach playing a total of 297 minutes over the course of 7 matches.

KHM had Sinclair playing a total of 338 minutes over the course of 4 matches.

A 36 year old playing that many World Cup minutes over the span of 14 days! No wonder that the engine of the Canadian team was running on empty during the last two matches.

Was it an experienced coaching decision to start the 36-year old Sinclair in every match, especially against the opponents the likes of youthful Dutch and Swedish squads? Didn't the fact that Christine chose to sit out practices in France, because as she herself put it, "being on the wrong side of 30," give KHM somewhat of a clue? If either Jordyn Huitema or Adriana Leon had been utilized as starters during the tournament, with Christine coming on as a second half substitute, then Canada would right now be preparing to face Germany on Saturday for a place in the semi-finals. What a shame!

What we need is a qualified Canadian woman to coach the CWNT. And there may soon be one available in Burnaby.

I can find a number of national team coaches that have made poor decisions that are female or Canadian.  Don't know if I've seen one that is both female and Canadian, but I'm sure there are some out there.  Don't sell yourself short!  :)

Edited by AvroArrow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Why on earth would we need a Canadian or a woman to coach?  If the best person for the job is Canadian, great!  If it's a woman, that's great, too!  But I think we need the best coach, period.  Our experiment with a female coach ended badly, and the Americans are not happy with Jill Ellis.  The English, however, are doing just fine under Phil Neville.

As for Sinclair coaching, sure, if she's actually a good coach.  We shouldn't just hand her the job because she was a good player.

Phil Neville is doing an amazing job with England. I really believe England's chances of lifting the trophy are much better than most people think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Patrick said:

Why on earth would we need a Canadian or a woman to coach?  If the best person for the job is Canadian, great!  If it's a woman, that's great, too!  But I think we need the best coach, period.  Our experiment with a female coach ended badly, and the Americans are not happy with Jill Ellis.  The English, however, are doing just fine under Phil Neville.

As for Sinclair coaching, sure, if she's actually a good coach.  We shouldn't just hand her the job because she was a good player.

I disagree. According to your line of reasoning, men make better coaches than women, as I am unaware of any woman being the coach of a senior men's national team. Yet, when it comes to the most successful teams at this year's World Cup in France, five of the 8 quarter-finalists have a woman in charge:

Jill Ellis - USA

Corinne Diacre - France 

Milena Bertolini - Italy

Sarina Wiegman - Netherlands

Martina Voss-Tecklenburg - Germany

With these five, I like the chances of the country winning this year's championship having a coach who is a women!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Binky said:

I disagree. According to your line of reasoning, men make better coaches than women, as I am unaware of any woman being the coach of a senior men's national team. Yet, when it comes to the most successful teams at this year's World Cup in France, five of the 8 quarter-finalists have a woman in charge:

Jill Ellis - USA

Corinne Diacre - France 

Milena Bertolini - Italy

Sarina Wiegman - Netherlands

Martina Voss-Tecklenburg - Germany

With these five, I like the chances of the country winning this year's championship having a coach who is a women!

100% of those coaches have the letter "i" in their first names.  I think we found the secret ingredient when it comes to coaching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AvroArrow said:

100% of those coaches have the letter "i" in their first names.  I think we found the secret ingredient when it comes to coaching.

Bang on! You get exactly what I mean. Christine Sinclair has 4 "i"s in her name. It just doesn't get any clearer then that, does it?😊

Anyhow, to answer the question posed, which was: Should Christine Sinclair retire from the CWNT? I say a definite NO! As soon as Sinclair hangs up her cleats she should immediately be approached by the CSA to coach the CWNT. With all of C.S.'s experience with the CWNT, who could possibly be more qualified to coach the CWNT? Who knows all the current CWNT players better than C.S.? Who knows all the current players of other national teams better than C.S.? Who in women's soccer is more respected than C.S.? If you answered Kenneth Heiner-Moller to any of the above, then you seriously need to get your head examined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AvroArrow said:

100% of those coaches have the letter "i" in their first names.  I think we found the secret ingredient when it comes to coaching.

So far as that comment goes, I'm going to have to cry "vowel".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Binky said:

Bang on! You get exactly what I mean. Christine Sinclair has 4 "i"s in her name. It just doesn't get any clearer then that, does it?😊

Anyhow, to answer the question posed, which was: Should Christine Sinclair retire from the CWNT? I say a definite NO! As soon as Sinclair hangs up her cleats she should immediately be approached by the CSA to coach the CWNT. With all of C.S.'s experience with the CWNT, who could possibly be more qualified to coach the CWNT? Who knows all the current CWNT players better than C.S.? Who knows all the current players of other national teams better than C.S.? Who in women's soccer is more respected than C.S.? If you answered Kenneth Heiner-Moller to any of the above, then you seriously need to get your head examined.

Has there been many examples of ex players getting the express lane to the coaching job working out?

Does she want to coach? If she wants to be a coach, then I think she should take the path to get there.  Our previous experiments with this process didn't work out very well. 

Herdman was a direct result of the women asking for the best coach they could get no matter who it was.  Sinclair might make an amazing coach but dropping her into that role tomorrow doesn't fit the bill of what the players asked for. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, admin said:

Has there been many examples of ex players getting the express lane to the coaching job working out?

Does she want to coach? If she wants to be a coach, then I think she should take the path to get there.  Our previous experiments with this process didn't work out very well. 

Herdman was a direct result of the women asking for the best coach they could get no matter who it was.  Sinclair might make an amazing coach but dropping her into that role tomorrow doesn't fit the bill of what the players asked for. 

 

FYI, to list but a few examples of player/coach:

1) Kenny Dalglish (Liverpool)

2) Graeme Souness (Rangers)

3) Glenn Hoddle (Swindon Town and Chelsea)

4) Bryan Robson (Middlesbrough)

5) Peter Reid (Manchester City)

6) Ruud Gullit (Chelsea)

7) Gianluca Vialli (Chelsea)

😎 Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)

It doesn't matter what Christine Sinclair wants. It her duty as a Canadian. That is going to be Christine's path. After all, she bleeds Maple Leafs, eh! Really! Take my word for it. I've seen it!!!😊

She is not going to hang up her cleats tomorrow, but it's not too far off. So if hiring a coach for the CWNT is really an experiment as a couple on this thread have claimed, would it not make for an interesting experiment to have Christine fill the role of player/coach for the upcoming Olympic qualifying campaign? Did the players really want Herdman to bail on them because they wanted to ask for Kenneth Heiner-Moller to coach them?

CHRISTINE SINCLAIR BLEEDS MAPLE LEAFS!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

32 minutes ago, Binky said:

Who knows all the current players of other national teams better than C.S.?  If you answered Kenneth Heiner-Moller to any of the above, then you seriously need to get your head examined.

I need to get my head examined then. I still think that Sinclair managing this team and or being a playing manager instantly is a terrible idea. She has enough on her plate to think about as a player that it would be even worse to ask her to do both. I don't think Sinclair would be a good fit maybe it's her personality that makes me think that she's more of an assistant then a coach.I don't mind ginving Sinclair an interview, but handing her the reins would be bad. Wilkinson is a much better choice than Sinclair. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Binky said:

FYI, to list but a few examples of player/coach:

1) Kenny Dalglish (Liverpool)

2) Graeme Souness (Rangers)

3) Glenn Hoddle (Swindon Town and Chelsea)

4) Bryan Robson (Middlesbrough)

5) Peter Reid (Manchester City)

6) Ruud Gullit (Chelsea)

7) Gianluca Vialli (Chelsea)

😎 Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)

It doesn't matter what Christine Sinclair wants. It her duty as a Canadian. That is going to be Christine's path. After all, she bleeds Maple Leafs, eh! Really! Take my word for it. I've seen it!!!😊

She is not going to hang up her cleats tomorrow, but it's not too far off. So if hiring a coach for the CWNT is really an experiment as a couple on this thread have claimed, would it not make for an interesting experiment to have Christine fill the role of player/coach for the upcoming Olympic qualifying campaign? Did the players really want Herdman to bail on them because they wanted to ask for Kenneth Heiner-Moller to coach them?

CHRISTINE SINCLAIR BLEEDS MAPLE LEAFS!!!

Unfortunately, so far as I can remember none of those people ever won anything as coaches, with the possible exception of Souness at Rangers where we all know it is only a two horse race to begin with.

Edit: I see that Gullit and Vialli did apparently win a couple of cup competitions between them but not the league and I don't think either is remembered as a big success.

Edited by Lofty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lofty said:

Unfortunately, so far as I can remember none of those people ever won anything as coaches, with the possible exception of Souness at Rangers where we all know it is only a two horse race to begin with.

Okay. How about Franz Beckenbauer? He played his last professional soccer match on September 12, 1983.

A few months after his last match, Franz was appointed manager of West Germany, position he would hold for the next six years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...