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2018 CONCACAF Women's U-20 Championship

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8 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

They were carried on the concacaf facebook

Huh!  That's perplexing and annoying.  I hope the games make their way to youtube with the others.

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1 minute ago, rkomar said:

Huh!  That's perplexing and annoying.  I hope the games make their way to youtube with the others.

It's on Youtube, and already posted on this site.

 

 

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1 minute ago, rkomar said:

Thanks!  I looked for a live stream on youtube during the game but didn't find it.  I guess my search skills suck.

No They don't, I had trouble finding it too, and the previous game.

It was on Canada Soccer website

 

 

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 said Bev Priestman, Canada Soccer Women’s U-20 Head Coach and Women’s National EXCEL Director U-15-U-23 after the match. “These players will learn from this.  It’s a very young group, and many of them will go on to the 2018 CONCACAF Women’s U-17 Championship in April, so this tournament will bring massive experience for them that can only help propel them through the U-17 qualification process and later in their careers.”
Apparently the goal of the U20 tournament is not to qualify, but to bring experience to the U17's...unbelievable.

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Thanks Matol that answered one of my questions!  That was an ugly game to watch for a variety of reasons but congratulations to Haiti for the victory they were tenacious from start to finish.  I am not sure what the intent of Canada Soccer was for this championship but it ended in failure.  Canada was only tested by two teams and lost both times.  Bad coaching?  Were we playing younger or certain players as an investment for the future at the cost of failing to advance?  Were we supposed to take away that the EXCEL program is going to be the only ticket to get on the national team in the future (reference the number of Whitecap/REX players rostered).   It will be interesting to see what if any changes will be made after all the performances and coaching decisions are analyzed. 

Sounds like listening to Coach Priestman it will be business as usual, full speed ahead!

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36 minutes ago, Matol said:

 said Bev Priestman, Canada Soccer Women’s U-20 Head Coach and Women’s National EXCEL Director U-15-U-23 after the match. “These players will learn from this.  It’s a very young group, and many of them will go on to the 2018 CONCACAF Women’s U-17 Championship in April, so this tournament will bring massive experience for them that can only help propel them through the U-17 qualification process and later in their careers.”
Apparently the goal of the U20 tournament is not to qualify, but to bring experience to the U17's...unbelievable.

The one that needs to learn from this is Priestman herself.  She can go and join Herdman as his assistant.  What a pair!

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42 minutes ago, GMAC said:

Were we supposed to take away that the EXCEL program is going to be the only ticket to get on the national team in the future (reference the number of Whitecap/REX players rostered). 

I don't know about other provinces but I do know what's going on in BC.  If you want to be selected to a provincial team or be considered for the the Whitecaps residency you must be playing in the HPL (Now called the BCSPL).  That's the message they are sending quite strongly.  Don't go to competing academies, don't play in leagues that cost significantly less than BCSPL, and most certainly don't you dare play any other sport but football.  Where the US is attacking pay-to-play we're just beginning to build that system here.

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3 hours ago, The Ref said:

In my view Chenard gifted the U.S. on their goal as the Mexican keeper was fouled to the ground.

OK I played this in super high definition and slowed it down and watched it at every speed from real-time to frame by frame.

Both the striker (#8) and the GK have their arms in the air, the striker for lift and leverage and to protect herself, the GK to clear. Are the striker's arms up to hit the GK? No she has them up to head the ball. I see where you are coming from, you could argue she can't do that but it's not that uncommon. It's the goalkeepers role to drive hard to any ball in their six punch it away. The problem in this case is the GK is completely passive and to expect a GK to have carte blanche on that ball and to catch it as it comes down without having to battle for it on the goal line is a bit  much for me.

Had the striker seen her and willfully used her arms to foul her, sure that's a no-brainer foul. In this case I think the striker had as much position as the GK and it was a free ball and it's the GK's job to do what the player has done and fight to the ball to win it. 

You can click on the image below to see it in larger size. I included #4 to just see the striker's vertical. That goalkeeper is not short and she is well above her.

ck.jpg

Edited by Vic

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9 minutes ago, Patrick said:

I don't know about other provinces but I do know what's going on in BC.  If you want to be selected to a provincial team or be considered for the the Whitecaps residency you must be playing in the HPL (Now called the BCSPL).  That's the message they are sending quite strongly.  Don't go to competing academies, don't play in leagues that cost significantly less than BCSPL, and most certainly don't you dare play any other sport but football.  Where the US is attacking pay-to-play we're just beginning to build that system here.

How much is the cost?  What is the basic yearly expense? 

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Priestman stole the same excuses made when the Women's team dropped out of the 2015 World Cup. It's business as usual with the CSA. CSA should not be allowed to sugar-coat; this was an absolute failure (nothing against Haiti). What I am referring to is that I can assure that the operating budget for the Canadian women's team dwarfs the money available to the Haitians. We are spending all this money and what are the results. If we sit and do nothing about it, it will only be a matter of time before the other countries in CONCACAF catch up and pass us.

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15 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

How much is the cost?  What is the basic yearly expense? 

A couple of links for you:

https://www.cmfsc.ca/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=58832

https://www.bcsoccercentral.com/threads/bcspl-v-metro-soccer-v-div-1.327/

The gist of which is BCSPL is about $2000 a year in registration fees and MSL is about $600.  That's the base cost, of course, and the extras add up quickly.  The BCSPL has significant travel cost, and then tournaments and other extras.  Those aren't optional.  My totally anecdotal experience from talking to parents with kids in the BCSPL is that it's well north of $4000 a season.  As the parent of a girl just entering the developmental program at her club I can say $4000 just isn't going to happen no matter how good she is.

 

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Congratulations to Haiti. Whose current FIFA ranking is 119. Should make a significant climb vs Equatorial Guinea, currently number 53.

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32 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Where the US is attacking pay-to-play we're just beginning to build that system here.

They may be attacking or trying to address pay-to-play but it is still very much the way to go in the USA.  They now have dueling banjos so to speak in the female soccer world with the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) and the recently added U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA).  It is now required for national pool players to play in the DA League.  Either way you go you will be paying a boatload of cash to participate, similar to what you are referencing in the BCSPL.  As a side note on the development of female soccer players I found this article in Soccer America, dated February 15, 2017, concerning an interview with Anson Dorrance, former coach of the USA's first Women’s World Cup championship team in 1991 and head coach of the University of North Carolina since 1979.  Coach Dorrance has won 21 NCAA Division 1 titles.  Coach Dorrance stated, in part,"

If we truly want to change our culture, all this talk about the Development Academy is missing the boat. We have to pour more of our resources into Zone 1 [age 6-11].

If we want to compete with the Japanese or the North Koreans, by the time we get to a U-17 and U-20 level, honestly it’s too late.

We’ve got to focus on honoring the technical coach who transforms the kids with an exciting personality and a thorough understanding of the joy for the game, and technical growth -- and make that person our youth coach hero.

Right now, the biggest prestige for a youth coach is to win a championship at a more advanced level, U-14, U-16, U-18 … So that’s where most of our top coaches are going. And it’s a poor investment of resources.

We have to figure out how to get our top coaches to coach U-12. To focus on what to do at our U-6 level, to make sure that by the time the players get to the U-14 level, they’re the best in the world because of what they’ve done at U-6 and U-12.

Make coaching the youngest players a prestigious position -- the coaches who inspire children to love the ball, to love the game, and to play every single day."

 

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Sorry if anyone missed the streams, took me a while to find them a couple times and it was really annoying.  The navigational design of that CONCACAF site is a disaster.

I've said it for a very long time here and noticed someone actually said it about one of the men's youth teams this weekend - you select the best 18 players you have regardless of age. To do otherwise is disrespectful to the tournament, the country, the game and most of all the players. If you aren't taking the best 18 players what message are you sending?  When I think of the players who get stiffed by this it breaks my heart.

The Americans have 10 players for every one of ours, most probably play outdoor year-round, their youth programs are better vested - and they barely ghosted by Haiti and Mexico.

We've been rostering young players for a long time. That's not on Priestman.

The Mexicans have a league geared to players around this age. What have we done?

The benefit the Haitians would have is it's about 300km end to end and they can train year-round together. That is a considerable advantage.

Some of the other countries in CONCACAF have already caught up. The same thing is happening in UEFA. Every year more countries invest in the women's game in all corners of the globe.

Our coach isn't at fault here either.

Personally I think a national association even being in the development business is a poor design, let alone having a complete monopoly on it. The fact that our women have nowhere else to develop or get another voice/opportunity is comedy, except a very, very tragic one (and please, don't even start with the Whitecaps).

This isn't on her either.

These are young women. The soccer level is probably somewhere between CIS and D1. Think about that. Let's not get carried away about the relevance or the coaching. This is John Herdman's design and he's just freshly walked out the door and left the keys on the counter. If you want to blame anyone, put it on him. And at least give Priestman time to have an impact on things.

I think we have big enough design problems with the PSO and NSO association monopolies that it doesn't matter if we hire Sir Jackie Charlton or Sir Alex, we're going to end up watching a lof of women's tournaments instead of participating in them.

Edited by Vic
typo

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Vic, wish I had the optimism and patience you have. As I mentioned earlier Canada had 3 true U20 players while Mexico and the US had a total of 15. Canada also had 7 U17 players while the US and Mexico had a combined total of 0 U17. This would be a coaching decision. As well, at the last U20 WWC , which the current coach had a significant role in, Canada finished 2nd to last. Thank God for PNG. Our +- was -12 in 3 games.

We lost to the #119 ranked nation. Great to be optimistic. The U17 competition looks bright!  

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The USA are the defending WC champions and #1 ranked country in the world and they went to PKs against the #119 country. So there's more to it than that.

Priestman worked for Herdman. The system is his design and the youth element would be his signature. She would have input but he would have set the foundation and framework. It has been one of the cornerstones of his tenure.

I have no problem with young players and think it's been a great change from the previous managers. We have a couple of great players as a result. But like the game if the pass isn't on, don't force it. Young players are fantastic if they're there by talent and not expectation of future talent.

Edited by Vic
typo

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26 minutes ago, Vic said:

Young players are fantastic if they're there by talent and not expectation of future talent.

I wonder how Herdman is going to apply this in his new challenge?

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3 hours ago, Vic said:

OK I played this in super high definition and slowed it down and watched it at every speed from real-time to frame by frame.

Both the striker (#8) and the GK have their arms in the air, the striker for lift and leverage and to protect herself, the GK to clear. Are the striker's arms up to hit the GK? No she has them up to head the ball. I see where you are coming from, you could argue she can't do that but it's not that uncommon. It's the goalkeepers role to drive hard to any ball in their six punch it away. The problem in this case is the GK is completely passive and to expect a GK to have carte blanche on that ball and to catch it as it comes down without having to battle for it on the goal line is a bit  much for me.

Had the striker seen her and willfully used her arms to foul her, sure that's a no-brainer foul. In this case I think the striker had as much position as the GK and it was a free ball and it's the GK's job to do what the player has done and fight to the ball to win it. 

You can click on the image below to see it in larger size. I included #4 to just see the striker's vertical. That goalkeeper is not short and she is well above her.

ck.jpg

Thank you for your thorough analysis and your conclusions.  Do not wish to enter in a long discussion back and forth.  Just in closing I will say that fouls do not need to be intentional, they can just be fortuitous.  GKs are to be protected and not bump or impede.  The GK did end up in the ground.

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9 hours ago, GMAC said:

If we truly want to change our culture, all this talk about the Development Academy is missing the boat. We have to pour more of our resources into Zone 1 [age 6-11].

That's be funny if it wasn't so tragically opposed to what BC Soccer is mandating.  There is no player development allowed (development teams) before U11, although almost everyone does it.  More to the point, the development is all focused around teams, not individual players.  In my club our TD has refused to consider a U10 development team and has said that BC Soccer will use their rating system to smack down those clubs that do.  He's wrong, though, because BC Soccer just gave Coquitlam Metro Ford their highest rating despite running development programs counter to the BC Soccer supposed mandate.

Player development is broken in so many ways and each iteration just introduces new roadblocks.

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Without the market capitalization and culture of the game it's an enormous struggle. I think what Dorrance was getting at is it's people and not systems. That's what we should focus on. 

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12 minutes ago, Vic said:

I think what Dorrance was getting at is it's people and not systems.

I think that has two meanings.  Certainly it is people, the coaches who can teach skills at a young age and not worrying about game play and systems of play at that age that matters.  Still, I think a system needs to be in place to identify talent at a young age and having a system that encourages those players to develop skills would be helpful.  There are a lot of problems with a philosophy that prevents development programs between U6 and U11.  First, I think it ignores the significant differences in boys and girls development.  If a girl isn't identified nationally by the time she's 14 she's probably never going to make the national program.  That means girls need to start earlier.  The second issue with the identification at a later age, like U11, is that there is suddenly a big difference in size among girls in that age group.  If you haven't identified the skilled players before  that and you suddenly have 2 days of evaluations, there is every chance you are going to pick a team of giants and ignore the small, creative players who are overwhelmed by the speed and power of bigger players.  That makes for a winning team, but it's not PLAYER development.  It's the same old story of January babies having the advantage but I am especially seeing it now among the girls.  It's no coincidence that Jordyn Huitema was identified, she's 5'9" tall.

Anyway, I think we need a standard system of development and player identification starting a lot younger than we're doing today.  What we have are a hundred little club-fiefdoms, each ruled by a technical director with their own motivations, and a haphazard approach.  I'm not saying the U20 failure to qualify is a direct result of that, but i don't think we are putting our best players forward in the system we currently have.

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